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Count Tiberio	Posted - 2005.06.26 19:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Maxine Stirner Yeah, you can tank a Maller up to 90% resists on guristas, serpentis, or bloods - but the rate of cap consumption even with good skills doesn't leave much for consistent pounding. Considering most npc encounters are mixed with many incompetent npc pilots, or many small targets, the maller isn't such a good choice for these encounters. If the maller can run just its tank for a crew though, it can perform rather well just by leaving guns off, hardners on and running a single rep once or twice a minute or so. AB use must be sparing as mentioned, or simply left off in favor of more capacitor boostage. Use cap boosters for high intensity, short encounters, or passive boosters in meds longer ones. -- The maller just doesn't handle a draw of +20cap/s very well so its tanking will always be limited. I only deal with tech1 setups because they are the most resource hungry. Hi:4 Heavy Beams (or 5 Focused Beams) - other 1-2 slots don't matter because you will not likely be using them. You can fit for whatever it is you do that is a frequent mistake. Remote rep, SB, cloak, smaller turrets, etc. Med: An AB for keeping range or sensor damper for shutting down long range foes. 2 Tracking Computers. Low: 2 Heat Sink, 1 signal amplifiers, Armor repair (optional), or wcs(optional), and the rest tracking enhancers. The target lock range and optimals are very hand in glove with this setup and leaves more efficient fitting options for dps. -- The fit is very close at over 1050 PG and a little over 300 cpu. -- You will be sniping and hitting regularly at a comfortable altitude of 55-60km, well outside the range of heavy missiles or turret tachyons. You will be cruising at over 400m/s and have a sig of 130, have a nice flight. Tradeoff for heat sinks if you feel you don't need as much range to be comfortable. -- This is not a bad choice for Angels or Drones. I usually take no damage at all. Cleanup is what takes the longest, but sniping is still a good choice for a squad. What's the standard procedure with this build? Like how to warp in, what to attack first etc.?
Count Tiberio	Posted - 2005.06.27 11:53:00 - [32] Really curious about this, I would like to try the setup but I don't want to lose my gear by not knowing everything.
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.06.27 12:29:00 - [33] Bah. Duramaller should use 2x small repper 2, 3x appropriate hardner and a 1600mm plate in low. 2x small repper = same cap use/s and armor rep/s as a medium tech II, but it saves you about 150 powergrid. Then go with 10mn AB II, Large Peroxide (does t2 exist?) and webber. Highs is med pulse II or med beam II (whatever you want) and a Nos.
Count Tiberio	Posted - 2005.06.27 19:29:00 - [34] How come you think the sniping setup is a bad idea?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.06.27 19:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Bah. Duramaller should use 2x small repper 2, 3x appropriate hardner and a 1600mm plate in low. 2x small repper = same cap use/s and armor rep/s as a medium tech II, but it saves you about 150 powergrid. Then go with 10mn AB II, Large Peroxide (does t2 exist?) and webber. Highs is med pulse II or med beam II (whatever you want) and a Nos. dont need the 1600 plate, dont need to save the pg on 2 small reps, which leaves you 2 more low for cpr, meaning cap isnt an issue, especially as with med pulse you dont need a web, so you dont need a nos, and can fit a med smartbomb. 'nuff said. ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Siroc	Posted - 2005.06.27 19:50:00 - [36] /signed. plates are not very good at the moment. Not worth loosing cap recharge over it. CPR over armor plate any day. Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Bah. Duramaller should use 2x small repper 2, 3x appropriate hardner and a 1600mm plate in low. 2x small repper = same cap use/s and armor rep/s as a medium tech II, but it saves you about 150 powergrid. Then go with 10mn AB II, Large Peroxide (does t2 exist?) and webber. Highs is med pulse II or med beam II (whatever you want) and a Nos. dont need the 1600 plate, dont need to save the pg on 2 small reps, which leaves you 2 more low for cpr, meaning cap isnt an issue, especially as with med pulse you dont need a web, so you dont need a nos, and can fit a med smartbomb. 'nuff said.
Count Tiberio	Posted - 2005.06.27 20:00:00 - [37] Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Bah. Duramaller should use 2x small repper 2, 3x appropriate hardner and a 1600mm plate in low. 2x small repper = same cap use/s and armor rep/s as a medium tech II, but it saves you about 150 powergrid. Then go with 10mn AB II, Large Peroxide (does t2 exist?) and webber. Highs is med pulse II or med beam II (whatever you want) and a Nos. dont need the 1600 plate, dont need to save the pg on 2 small reps, which leaves you 2 more low for cpr, meaning cap isnt an issue, especially as with med pulse you dont need a web, so you dont need a nos, and can fit a med smartbomb. 'nuff said. Could medium beams be used instead?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.06.27 20:01:00 - [38] the 1600 plate and double small repper was a feature of the original, venerable duramaller because using a 100MN, oversized afterburner didnt leave you with much grid, meaning you couldnt fit a large battery very well, so you had to have large buffers for damage. this is not necessary anymore. having said that, a config with large peroxide, cap recharger, and 2 cap power relays can shoot and tank indefinitely, and pulse the 'burner for long times. so, when using a 2-hardener config - for example when fighting serpentis or blood raiders or guristas - nothing stops you from going for a plate + 2cpr rather than 3cpr config in low. me, i prefer the extra speed and being able to run EVERYTHING bar the med smartbomb indefinitely. ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Count Tiberio	Posted - 2005.06.27 20:49:00 - [39] What if I used dual modal medium beams?
Arcterran	Posted - 2005.06.27 20:51:00 - [40] This is a great thread, I've learned a ton from it so far. I have one question for everyone though. Which crystals are you using on your frigate guns? I just moved into a Maller and am curious at what range you typically fight at. Thanks
keepiru	Posted - 2005.06.27 20:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Count Tiberio What if I used dual modal medium beams? they still dont track well enough, and much less damage the medium pulse. anyway, a maller clocks 425m/s easy, and a good 450 with skills (and much more after patch), its not like youll have a problem catching up to things. so if youre going to go for beams, might as well use mediums. pulse: run towards thing beam: run away from things whichever suits you best. me, id never use beams on a maller, i hate having to use a webber on a cruiser/BC to kill npcs, when i can do more damage and tank better without one. ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Count Tiberio	Posted - 2005.06.27 21:05:00 - [42] I'm using infra-reds and xrays when I need them. Also, another question. If I am not using cruiser sized guns anyway is it worth using frigate sized howitzers or rails?
keepiru	Posted - 2005.06.27 21:18:00 - [43] Edited by: keepiru on 27/06/2005 21:26:25 Originally by: Count Tiberio I'm using infra-reds and xrays when I need them. Also, another question. If I am not using cruiser sized guns anyway is it worth using frigate sized howitzers or rails? no. beams do the higest normalized damage because amarr ship generally have no damage mods. and cap draw from small guns is really not an issue. they also have the best tracking. 280mm Howie: 0.066 rad/sec 150mm Rail: 0.07 rad/sec Medium Beam: 0.1 rad/sec ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Maxine Stirner	Posted - 2005.06.27 21:54:00 - [44] To the Count: I don't really want to clutter a duramaller thread with a post strictly about snipemallers. I just wanted to point out that don't often make good tanks by the nature of their typical prey. There are numerous ways to use any ship in any setup. For most npcs, I set my keep at to my microwave optimal or whatever is safe against the npc sentries. The orbital I set at 70 km around an anchored object if there is a lot of them burning strait for me. Clean up is a real pain if you have to do this. With the next patch, you will have the ability to warp in at a comfortable distance and just pick off things before they even finish approaching. Of course, npcs may be using more EW very soon. If you only need a cruiser's worth of tanking, like for your crew, or for a drones mission, the Maller is definitely among the best choices despite no drones. It's just that tank setups use enormous amounts of capacitor production, kill slowly, and it can take forever to get enemies within range of small guns. A mixed setup on Maller is not bad either. Fit 2-3 med pulses, and 2 or 3 of the larger small pulses. Then tank. You won't do much damage because you have no mods, but npcs generally don't tank well. The other danger of tank setups is that you have to be able to get the warp scraming npcs. Personally, I also have to warp out (w/ autopilot) a lot more often with tank setups. As npcs become more like actual player ships, there is more opportunity to fit PvP and PvE capable setups, which means some people can jump strait from one to the other without any downtime. For me, that means a gank setup, and especially for an anti-frigate role. Locking Times & Evil Asteroids
Count Tiberio	Posted - 2005.06.28 00:29:00 - [45] RE: the sniping setup, what do you do if you warp into a mission and there's rats right on top of you? I am still kind of confused about this build but it sounds really interesting.
Wolverine PL	Posted - 2005.07.22 21:54:00 - [46] DO you think maller can take Phi-Operation Protector? Or prophecy will be better?
Dred 'Morte	Posted - 2005.07.22 22:22:00 - [47] Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 22/07/2005 22:22:47 Originally by: Miner's Bane 5x Medium Beam Laser II 1x 10mn AB 1x Named Webber 1x Large Peroxide Cap Battery 1x Medium Armor Repairer II 2x Hardeners 1x 1600mm Nanofiber Plate 2x Cap Power Relay Without the webber, drones in close can be a problem. With decent cap skills, every module on this ship will happily run 23/7. If those hardeners are Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes, than, i can tell you, that is the best Maller setup, its the toughest cruiser in the game, tougher than a thorax! However, you have to use Medium Pulse II, and a Medium Nosferatu, and a Cap Recharger II, not a Large battery. More armor, more cap, and a nos(less cap on target), if you face the T-rax just shoot its drones, ohoh poor rax, give it 5 mins he will be in forums saying nerf the maller.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.07.23 04:57:00 - [48] Edited by: Vishnej on 23/07/2005 04:58:29 Originally by: Wolverine PL DO you think maller can take Phi-Operation Protector? Or prophecy will be better? Directly, I find it unlikely. The only way I was able to do it in a Prophecy was to use light drones as a permenant distraction, and count on having 2-3 extra keys for failed attempts at luring with the drones. His guns alone do the same damage as you can tank with therm + kinetic hardener and TWO medium repairer 2's. I was never able to fit a setup that could operate guns AND tank him. I don't have very good gunnery skills, but 300k or so SP there and I needed to make my setup no longer cap stable in order to fit a second heatsink (extruded, approx = T2) in order to break his tank at all. This is with medium drones doing extra damage, an assault missile launcher doing damage, and SIX focused modulated medium beams firing multifreq at him.
Wolverine PL	Posted - 2005.07.25 01:22:00 - [49] Well Im little disapointed with this setup. Maller for close range ist so good. Even with 80% (4 hardneners- 2 types)resistance it would live long in monastery complex 4/10. I like more snipe setup. 4 heavy modulated energy beams I 1 medium pulse energy beam I 1x 10mn II 1x cap rech 2 1x cap rech 2 1x cap relay 2x small reps 2 2x heat sink 1x track en. With this setup I can snipe from 50km (dont have best gunery skills). And I dont need tank. Just speed. Its really better setup.
Spartan III	Posted - 2005.10.10 09:36:00 - [50] Bump, I wanna see more up to date setups _______________________________________________ Member - [CHRST] Christian Fellowship Foundation Fan - [EVOL] Movies (Keep up the great work!)
Spartan III	Posted - 2005.10.10 11:11:00 - [51] Title of thread is "Up-To-Date Duramaller" so can we see some up-to-sate duramaller setups? _______________________________________________ Member - [CHRST] Christian Fellowship Foundation Fan - [EVOL] Movies (Keep up the great work!)
Svett	Posted - 2005.10.10 11:18:00 - [52] Edited by: Svett on 10/10/2005 11:20:42 Edited by: Svett on 10/10/2005 11:19:12 Originally by: Spartan III Title of thread is "Up-To-Date Duramaller" so can we see some up-to-sate duramaller setups? here is a nice boring one high 5x t2 medium pulse 1x med nos mid t2 10mn ab webber cap recharger low t2 med rep kin hardener thermal hardener 2x cap relay 1600mm plate can do any lvl 3 mission with ease alternate setups for lows ; t2 med rep kin hardener thermal hardener explosive hardener 1x cap relay 1600mm plate t2 med rep kin hardener thermal hardener heat sink 1x cap relay 1600mm plate with the heatsink setup i can kill 1m guristas bs spawns without much problem, just takes a while to break the tank.
Spartan III	Posted - 2005.10.10 13:47:00 - [53] Perhaps you can tell me how many SP you have/or need to take down 1m guristas BS spawns + do all level 3 missions with ease, and how much that setup will cost because I am too lazy to check _______________________________________________ Member - [CHRST] Christian Fellowship Foundation Fan - [EVOL] Movies (Keep up the great work!)
Svett	Posted - 2005.10.11 06:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Spartan III Perhaps you can tell me how many SP you have/or need to take down 1m guristas BS spawns + do all level 3 missions with ease, and how much that setup will cost because I am too lazy to check i started doing lvl 3's in a maller when i had around 700k SP, i kill the 1m bs spawns with lvl 4 cruiser/eng/mech/elec and around 700k total in gunnery... i have 3.1m sp total right now. a bit low, but i missed a few weeks of training
Spartan III	Posted - 2005.10.12 00:51:00 - [55] Any other setups out there? Also is it best to use pulse lasers or do beam lasers stand a chance against level 3 missions too? _______________________________________________ Member - [CHRST] Christian Fellowship Foundation Fan - [EVOL] Movies (Keep up the great work!)
keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.12 00:56:00 - [56] Beams are nice. Have to bring a web though. ------------- WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P
Spartan III	Posted - 2005.10.13 02:43:00 - [57] If I have cruiser level 4 giving me +20% resistances to all would it not be better to passive tank with Energized Membranes instead of armor hardeners? _______________________________________________ Member - [CHRST] Christian Fellowship Foundation Fan - [EVOL] Movies (Keep up the great work!)
Jaasan Booling	Posted - 2005.10.23 21:28:00 - [58] Edited by: Jaasan Booling on 23/10/2005 21:32:54 Edited by: Jaasan Booling on 23/10/2005 21:32:36 you aren't getting +20% resistance. the calculation is: default resistance + (resistance bonusdecimal resistance not used) = final resistance (this is for EM damage so default of 60% and resistance not used is 40%1 = 0.4) 60% + (20%0.4) = 68% (this is for kinetic damage so default of 25% and resistance not used is 75%1 = 0.75) 25% + (20%*0.75) = 40% P.S. correct me if I'm wrong. :)
EliteLord	Posted - 2005.11.26 01:11:00 - [59] Originally by: Svett Edited by: Svett on 10/10/2005 11:20:42 Edited by: Svett on 10/10/2005 11:19:12 Originally by: Spartan III Title of thread is "Up-To-Date Duramaller" so can we see some up-to-sate duramaller setups? here is a nice boring one high 5x t2 medium pulse 1x med nos mid t2 10mn ab webber cap recharger low t2 med rep kin hardener thermal hardener 2x cap relay 1600mm plate can do any lvl 3 mission with ease how can u fit all that with the maller's power requirements??? running all that except the 1600MM plate, im at 1010/1062 in my powergrid. no friggin way i could put in a 1600 plate that is an extra 500 powergrid. my engineering is at lv5. where are u getting this much extra power from??
Wangdon Groovenstein	Posted - 2005.11.28 09:15:00 - [60] Would it be viable to equip the Maller with roughly the same equipment in the original post, except substituting some things for smaller/weaker versions of themselves? I like the setup he has but don't have the skills (or the money) to equip myself with all of those, and I'm wondering if it's acceptable to have slightly worse stuff. Of course, I wouldn't attempt to survive in the same situations.

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