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GOOD IDEA! Remove insurance payouts for war declarers!

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NGRU Rix	Posted - 2005.04.20 10:37:00 - [1] Edited by: NGRU Rix on 20/04/2005 14:34:45 I actually got this idea from what someone else posted in another thread, but here it is... If you are in a corp that has declared war, during this war declaration time, insurance companies should not pay you if you lose your ship. Would an insurer really insure someones ship knowing hes going to take it to war and probably lose it? And then they have to pay him so he can buy another? NO i certainly think not. This would fix many problems in EVE, the main one would be less isk being injected into the economy. It would remove the "all win, no lose" situation that aggressors currently have. A pure fighter corp can attack an industrial corp, insure all there ships, carry never nothing of value, meanwhile the industrial corp has 2 choices, try to go about business as usual, and experience some hefty finanical losses, or stop all productions and try to fight back with lesser prepared pilots, not good. A few threads below i wrote this - for people who dont read beyond the first post I've never had any problems with war, this is a good way to help get rid of all the isk being injected into the economy. Insurance payouts is not a good idea, its probably one of the main things that has injected so much isk into the economy, people build ships with mined minerels, people insure the ship for 30 mill, they then die in the ship and get paid 100 mill. Not good, the ship should be gone, or perhaps some key ship components could be left as loot, that can be refined down into minerels (a percentage of the total minerels used to make the ship). If you want pvp combat to be better in this game, there needs to be more of a loss to losing a ship, and more of a gain to killing someone elses. The gain would be whatever mods survive (usually worth zilch) but also the surviving ship components that can be refined into quite a hefty amount of minerels. My main source of income is npc killing (not agents) and I would be most pleased if they removed insurance altogether.
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.04.20 10:41:00 - [2] 1) Try the IDEAS forum 2) Don't like the idea anyway... -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
IamBen	Posted - 2005.04.20 10:42:00 - [3] This is a terrible idea. This will make people less likely to fight. Isnt the idea to have more fighting? Fighting = fun?
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:00:00 - [4] Stupid idea. "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:08:00 - [5] That's a terrible idea.
DEVILSENIGMA	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:09:00 - [6] Stupid. Let me guess your from a mining/trade/industry based corp ~ [My Blog] \| [Roving Guns Kill List]
Riddari	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:12:00 - [7] Logical idea from the perspective of an insurance company. ¼©¼ a history
NGRU Rix	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:16:00 - [8] Edited by: NGRU Rix on 20/04/2005 11:18:22 No, actually, im not, and i've never had any problems with war either, this is a good way to help get rid of all the isk being injected into the economy. Insurance payouts is not a good idea, its probably one of the main things that has injected so much isk into the economy, people build ships with mined minerels, people insure the ship for 30 mill, they then die in the ship and get paid 100 mill. Not good, the ship should be gone, or perhaps some key ship components could be left as loot, that can be refined down into minerels (a percentage of the total minerels used to make the ship). If you want pvp combat to be better in this game, there needs to be more of a loss to losing a ship, and more of a gain to killing someone elses. The gain would be whatever mods survive (usually worth zilch) but also the surviving ship components that can be refined into quite a hefty amount of minerels.
Tethis	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:21:00 - [9] i see your point, but let me give you a scenario. a trading/mining corp is being griefed by some nefarious types. this mining corp hires a merc corp to help them out. without insurance for the merc corp, the mining corp now has to foot the bill for any ships the merc corp lose. so they get their money and the employer loses out.
Joram McRory	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:43:00 - [10] I can understand your logic - but I don't think insurance has as big an impact as you think. Thake my Harpy: 17 mil to buy 20 mil to fit insurance payout 3.5 (ish) mil - not even woth insuring

Sleazy Cabbie	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:54:00 - [11] I think this is a great idea. You want to be an aggressor? Risk something. It's not Eve's job to make your fight risk-free. You want to fight? It's your job to make sure you can win, or suffer for being wrong. Where's risk vs reward for merc corps. Its all reward and no risk. You can start a fight, lose, and just get your insurance back and try to attack the next corp until you find someone timid enough to buy out your bogus "contract." Hey look ma, I have a contract. No you don't, you're a college student looking to kill as many non-combatants as possible to enlarge your e-peen, you're going to declare anybody that looks defenseless, because it only costs 2 mil, you can gain some combat experience, and insurance makes it risk free. How's that for truth-in-advertising.
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:59:00 - [12] This is a stupid idea because it's not only exploitable, but also one-sided and only thought-out from one perspective. If anything, insurance should be changed as a whole. If you lose alot of ships, your premium goes down, and your insurance cost increases. If you die in 0.0, the insurance company refuses to pay the full bill (you went into 0.0 in the first place), paying maybe a certain percentage. Either that or have a pre-paid plan that includes coverage in 0.0 space. Just slapping this on empire wars is nonsensical.
Phoenix Mulderdart	Posted - 2005.04.20 12:04:00 - [13] I have said in another thread that I think this is a good idea. Also that insurance should be invalid for both parties in 0.0 and for people who attack first. It's all part of the risk/reward balance. You want to PVP fine, but put your ship on the line for it. If you want to go into low sec fine but take the insurance hit for it. However, if you want to stay insured, stay in empire but the rewards should be much less. If people want to survive in 0.0 they will have to kit their ship out better to make sure that they don't die. That way the loot will be worth more when they do :) As for the payouts. I know that T2 ships are over priced but you need to ask yourself why? Is it the component cost or the markup, I don't honestly know? Just my 2p
Lucre	Posted - 2005.04.20 12:23:00 - [14] Insurance has long needed fixing, if only to "make sense" from a commercial viewpoint. [I would love to see CCP publish the premiums vs payouts figures for the in-game insurers!] This idea might be a step in the right direction but only that. Most obvious problem is that for most T2 ships, insurance isn't worth having anyway. And most war declarers I've seen around Empire are in interceptors, assaults and heavy assaults. And what of mutual wars? Presumably you'd want to void insurance on both sides? And wouldn't insurance rates go up for someone with wars declared on them too? Or indeed not be insurable at all? Would make sense from a RL perspective but not be much fun for the victim corp in game. Meanwhile, the idea of insurance not being valid in 0.0 might have made sense a few months back - but not now. Because with level 4 missions, complexes and empire wars, there's probably more ships being lost in Empire than in 0.0 now!
ALPHA12125	Posted - 2005.04.20 12:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Lucre Insurance has long needed fixing, if only to "make sense" from a commercial viewpoint. [I would love to see CCP publish the premiums vs payouts figures for the in-game insurers!] This idea might be a step in the right direction but only that. Most obvious problem is that for most T2 ships, insurance isn't worth having anyway. And most war declarers I've seen around Empire are in interceptors, assaults and heavy assaults. And what of mutual wars? Presumably you'd want to void insurance on both sides? And wouldn't insurance rates go up for someone with wars declared on them too? Or indeed not be insurable at all? Would make sense from a RL perspective but not be much fun for the victim corp in game. Meanwhile, the idea of insurance not being valid in 0.0 might have made sense a few months back - but not now. Because with level 4 missions, complexes and empire wars, there's probably more ships being lost in Empire than in 0.0 now! you cant insure t2 ships because eg. a deimos cost barely more than a thorax in production. so u could insure it for a 100 million and build it for 5. people would build them and kill them rightaway
The Enslaver	Posted - 2005.04.20 12:42:00 - [16] Hmm... How about remove it from both the declarer and the declared? Much better. Oh, and remove insurance when NPC's kill you. Much better -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Fattus	Posted - 2005.04.20 12:57:00 - [17] This will increase potential cost of wars. Hence fewer wars will be declared. Sounds boring to me.
Garia666	Posted - 2005.04.20 13:00:00 - [18] Badest idea ever
Ryy Kishin	Posted - 2005.04.20 13:05:00 - [19] Ghey! Live Hard Die Young Leave A Good Looking Corpse!
Loka	Posted - 2005.04.20 13:16:00 - [20] Edited by: Loka on 20/04/2005 13:17:15 Sorry but i dunno wtf has told you its risk free. Let me give you some numbers. Megathron = 115mil isk Poor man loadout 7xlarge Rails = 7mil isk 2xlarge armor rep = 1mil isk 3x hardeners = 1mil isk 10 heavy drones = 1mil isk ammo + normal modules like dmg mod = 500k isk Platinum Insurance = 31 mil isk Summary = 156,5 mil isk payback by your Insurance Company will be 105 mil. Suma sumaron you will loose 51,5 mil isk each time someone is releasing your cursed soul from your ship. You can easily make your math how much you would loose if you fit Tech 2 Weapons and Modules. If that isnt a drawback for you, for most other players it is. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive

Morkus Rex	Posted - 2005.04.20 13:19:00 - [21] I have always wondered why the Insurance is valid in both 1.0 and 0.0 systems. And how can it be possible to get insurance on a warship... It is build to fight and therefore stand very high risk of being destroyed By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare to die!
Elenia Kheynes	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:04:00 - [22] Edited by: Elenia Kheynes on 20/04/2005 14:04:32 I'd say insurrance prices should depend of the security level of system: -insurrance for 1.0 to 0.5 would be the same (afterall, noobs like it) -insurrance from 0.4 to 0.1 would cost 30% more (it would be an insurrance for all system that have a security status between 1.0 and 0.1) -insurrance in 0.0 would cost 60% more (basicly you would get much less isk from it, without getting ruined ^^) basic insurrance in 0.0 would cost isk. (this insurrance would include all systems) Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
Arimas Talasko	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:08:00 - [23] Logical idea from the perspective of a Xetic. Supremacy Keepin it Real
Sonorra Baki	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Elenia Kheynes -insurrance for 1.0 to 0.5 would be the same (afterall, noobs like it) -insurrance from 0.4 to 0.1 would cost 30% more (it would be an insurrance for all system that have a security status between 1.0 and 0.1) -insurrance in 0.0 would cost 60% more (basicly you would get much less isk from it, without getting ruined ^^) basic insurrance in 0.0 would cost isk. (this insurrance would include all systems) Actually it should be the other way around, so insurrance in 1.0 cost more and payout less, and insurrance in 0.0 cost less and give more... That would make more ppl come to 0.0, and want to stay. This is In relation to fighters in 0.0 having a harder time making ISK in between fights, and collecting ships and loadouts, than average emp-joe.
anter	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:19:00 - [25] Not sure about this, but would prefer that there was some way to win a war, so trade/industrial corp could hire mercs to complete some objective.
Nervar	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Loka Edited by: Loka on 20/04/2005 13:17:15 Sorry but i dunno wtf has told you its risk free. Let me give you some numbers. Megathron = 115mil isk Poor man loadout 7xlarge Rails = 7mil isk 2xlarge armor rep = 1mil isk 3x hardeners = 1mil isk 10 heavy drones = 1mil isk ammo + normal modules like dmg mod = 500k isk Platinum Insurance = 31 mil isk Summary = 156,5 mil isk payback by your Insurance Company will be 105 mil. Suma sumaron you will loose 51,5 mil isk each time someone is releasing your cursed soul from your ship. You can easily make your math how much you would loose if you fit Tech 2 Weapons and Modules. If that isnt a drawback for you, for most other players it is. Its so simple that one would think everyone understood it. Meh i just think the post starter is tired of having people war decing on them inn empire disturbing his precious lvl4 mission running. And as Loka over here said loosing 60-80++ million per bs is quite a big deal for a very large population of players that dont do missions,mine or *** agents all day -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.**
Ghost Red	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:25:00 - [27] People are quick to state "well, if there was no insurance during war decs, no one would fight", well, most people don't fight during wars anyway. It ends up as a cat and mouse blobfest and when any action does take place, people log off TBH, I don't think its that bad an idea, but then I also acknowledge that its pretty much untenable. Insurance needs to be reworked from the ground up anyways. Should be a brokered system where you are insured for the value of your ship, not the market rate. So when you want to insure your ubermega BS, you go to the broker, select from a drop down the value of your ship to insure then pay the premium on it. That would be very easy to implement, non? -------------------------------------------- Misomusic!
KIAInkZ	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:45:00 - [28] I remember in Jumpgate your insurance would get worse the more ships you lost. Was a pain in the ass seeing I'd crash 4/5 times trying to manually dock, or watching tv, only to turn around and see the jump gate at the last minute :\| --- Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Riddari Logical idea from the perspective of an insurance company. This is a totally horrible idea from the standpoint of someone getting insured, but yeah... from the insurance company's perspective, they'd never touch you with a 10 ft pole if they knew you were at war. Though... in WWII, American soldiers were given life insurance by the military. Maybe instead of having the game drop your insurance completely, they formalize something in the game that gives the alliance/corp/whatever the option of offering insurance policies that come from corp/alliance funds. Now before you cringe at that, think about it. If you're an alliance and you want people to fight for you, it's nice for those people to know the alliance will take care of them financially for their losses. Those that fight will be approved, those that don't will no doubt be rejected. No free insurance for those who aren't supporting the cause and get caught up in the crossfire, in other words. Dunno, maybe that idea stinks too. :) ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:51:00 - [30] No insurance payments in 0.0 ... no insurance payments for ships lost in concord sanctioned wars. That'd be my pitch. I don't believe for one minute this would lead to less fighting, but it would lead to less use of battleships and expensive ships in fighting. Star Fraction



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