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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1452
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/11/a-more-flexible-approach-to-skill-points.html
How might the act of skilling in EVE change, such that the core mechanics of how we acquire skill points does not change, but that the system becomes more flexible for the player?
Instead of adding skills to a skill queue, why not just amass skill points, which can then be spent on skills.
The system would still retain five attributes: memory, intelligence, perception, willpower and charisma. Depending at what rank each of those attributes are at, taking into account our current mapping and any learning implants we have plugged in, each attribute would accumulate points over time. I would suggest a rate of about (attribute value x 30) points per hour per attribute. We then take those attribute points, after some period of time amassing them, and spend them on skills.
Every skill had two associated attributes. Gallente Battleship, as an example, has perception as the primary attribute and willpower as the secondary attribute. We use a 66/34% ratio in determining how many points per attribute are required for skill purchase. Gallente Battleship V, requires 4,000,000 skill points total, thus 2,640,000 perception points and 1,360,000 willpower points.
How does this make the system more flexible?
Let's say you're in a lowsec corporation, and they want their pilots to train into dreadnoughts. You decide, sure. But after creating your skill plan, you see that it's going to take you nearly two hundred days to get into a Gallente dreadnought effectively (the spaceships skills, the capital weaponry skills, the siege module skill, etc.) You decide, to be safe, rather than sorry, that you'll spend 200 hundred days amassing all the attribute points you'll need, but you won't actually purchase any of the skills until you can purchase them all at once.
Then tragedy strikes. At around 100 days into your skill plan, your lowsec alliance fail cascades. It is no more. You're homeless. After some soul searching, you decide that you'd like to move to a wormhole, and you soon find a great new alliance to take you in.
Dreadnoughts are not particularly useful in wormholes. Under EVE's current system, that's pretty much 100 days of wasted skill training you'd have completed, for a ship that you're no longer interested in flying, and probably no longer interested in training towards.
Under this new flexible skill point system, and because of the decision you made not to buy any of the dreadnought-related skills until you had amassed all the attribute points required, you've a lot of flexibility to do something else. Now that you're in wormholes, you can take those 100 days of attribute points that you've amassed and can immediately start purchasing skills that would be far more useful in a wormhole environment. You haven't wasted 100 days of training at all.
***
It's an idea. I'm not pushing for this as a change needed for EVE. The current system is certainly inflexible, but it's by no means terrible or bad. Perhaps this new system isn't appropriate to EVE, for one reason or another. At any rate, it's a discussion that can be had. Would this new system be appropriate to EVE? Is being forced into early decision-making important to EVE? Or is flexibility something that should be worked into the system? Amarr Militia |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1097
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
So all I'd have to do is make a bunch of accounts & switch to the new flavour of the month constantly? Sure, what could possibly go wrong. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1452
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:So all I'd have to do is make a bunch of accounts & switch to the new flavour of the month constantly? Sure, what could possibly go wrong. Flavour of the month is such a crock of **** argument in EVE. There are some ships that are better than others ... but you definitely do not see players migrating to single hulls en masse over all other hulls (other than capital ships.)
Plus, I'm sure CCP would love for you to have a number of extra active accounts, even if all they're doing is amassing attribute points. Amarr Militia |
Aziesta
Sathainn Braithrean Cartel Apocalypse Now.
128
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
It might be simpler if there wasn't different "types" of SP for each attribute. Instead, you gain SP, it goes into a pool, then when it comes time to train skills, the amount of SP required depends on your current attribute mapping. So for example, Dreadnaught 5 might take X sp if you're spec'ed one way, or Y if you're spec'ed some other way. Remapping would maintain your current skill levels, or in the case of partially trained skills, maintain the % complete.
This could be awesome for character trading. Spend 12 months accumulating SP, but don't cash it out, then sell the character as a "design your own" character - 1 year worth of SP would let you immediately max in one or two areas. Or perhaps it would lead to a decrease in the value of highly-skilled characters, since a character for sale with 30 mil "unspent" SP could easily be more attractive than a 60 mil SP character with no "unspent" SP. |
Karn Dulake
Sad Flutes
1003
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Its a nice idea but you will learn in this thread that when EVE players say that they are mature its alll Horseshit.
People will say no simply because they spent years doing it the hard way and its not fair that newer players wont have to.
I would like it if we had an unlimted skill queue but the argument against it is the one above.
EVE online is just the WOW crowd pretending to be grown ups I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1097
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Flavour of the month is such a crock of **** argument in EVE.
Sure it is, that's why different ships suddenly become more popular to use that the last. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Arsedestroyer
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
This post makes me wonder what people who trained for supercaps or titans for a bit longer than 200 days and just finsihed at the exact day the were nerfed into ground did... |
Nexus Day
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
124
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
How about interest on amassed SP?
Or maybe put amassed SP on the market and sell it?
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Xercodo
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1461
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Posted - 2012.11.21 23:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aziesta wrote:It might be simpler if there wasn't different "types" of SP for each attribute. Instead, you gain SP, it goes into a pool, then when it comes time to train skills, the amount of SP required depends on your current attribute mapping. So for example, Dreadnaught 5 might take X sp if you're spec'ed one way, or Y if you're spec'ed some other way. Remapping would maintain your current skill levels, or in the case of partially trained skills, maintain the % complete.
This could be awesome for character trading. Spend 12 months accumulating SP, but don't cash it out, then sell the character as a "design your own" character - 1 year worth of SP would let you immediately max in one or two areas. Or perhaps it would lead to a decrease in the value of highly-skilled characters, since a character for sale with 30 mil "unspent" SP could easily be more attractive than a 60 mil SP character with no "unspent" SP.
Hmm yeah that could work
the SP needs to be universal cause if all 5 attributes slowly gain SP then a bunch of guys will end up with a bunch of charisma they never use.
Have universal SP that is spent based on a added cost modifier from the skill and a cost reduction modifier for the remap/implants to cancel it out. The Drake is a Lie |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1452
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Posted - 2012.11.22 00:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:The SP needs to be universal cause if all 5 attributes slowly gain SP then a bunch of guys will end up with a bunch of charisma they never use. I have no problem with that happening.
Amarr Militia |
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Xercodo
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1461
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Posted - 2012.11.22 00:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Xercodo wrote:The SP needs to be universal cause if all 5 attributes slowly gain SP then a bunch of guys will end up with a bunch of charisma they never use. I have no problem with that happening.
Monster D: The Drake is a Lie |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
The Python Cartel.
3630
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
DUST SP system in Eve? I look down my nose at you "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1094
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Speaking as an individual ... you can take my SPs from my cold dead fingers ISD Suvetar,-áCaptain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department We are hiring! |
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NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
42
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
I like the idea of it being a base sp generation increased by a specific implants with cost based on your current attributes. Perhaps an omega learner implant that increases the sp gain. OOOOHHH make it the Concord DED implant set! Now that would be fun to play with.
ISD Suvetar wrote:Speaking as an individual ... you can take my SPs from my cold dead fingers If I ever find you in a pod I will remember that. |
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
156
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lol I think the SP would burn hole in my pocket, much like RL money does, that's just me though. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10391
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
So it's essentially the current system with the skill decision back-loaded rather than front-loaded? It's surprisingly non-Lovecraftian-horrid for an idea about the skill system (only roughly Derlethian-horrid or thereabouts).
If you're going to do that, though, I'd suggest not caring about the attributes either until it's decision-time. Instead, just count time-units, and when it's time to pick a skill, the attributes determine the TU-to-SP exchange ratio. With your suggestion, you're actually training 2-+ skills at once. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
510
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:So all I'd have to do is make a bunch of accounts & switch to the new flavour of the month constantly? Sure, what could possibly go wrong. Flavour of the month is such a crock of **** argument in EVE. There are some ships that are better than others ... but you definitely do not see players migrating to single hulls en masse over all other hulls (other than capital ships.) Plus, I'm sure CCP would love for you to have a number of extra active accounts, even if all they're doing is amassing attribute points.
That's true, you almost never see a mission runner in a drake or tengu. You almost never see blobs of them in pvp either. I'm sure with the ship changes, you won't see people en masse figure out which is the best ship, and move to it either. If there's one thing the EVE playerbase isn't, it isn't a bunch of min-maxers with spreadsheets and even more spreadsheets breaking down which thing is the best.
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Zoctrine
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.11.22 01:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
There's nothing wrong with the Skill Training at this time.
There's lots of other important issues that need addressing, lets focus on them please... |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
43
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zoctrine wrote:There's nothing wrong with the Skill Training at this time.
There's lots of other important issues that need addressing, lets focus on them please... But if we fix the problems, what can we complain about? |
Digital Messiah
Heroic Era
231
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
The only way this would work is if you went back to having people decide their attributes and keeping them forever. Than everyone gains sp at 2700 but when it comes to spending gets hit for a percentage that they can apply.
Ex. Intellegence: 32 Perception: 22 Charisma: 22 Willpower: 22 Memory: 26
Int / Mem skills would get the bonus of having 2700 sp gains. While everything else would get less. Otherwise you have almost no deminishing return for doing this. Also there are more skills of certain types that require different attributes. So you would see everyone either go per / will or int / mem. And everyone would be doing about the same thing. AKA why change what isn't broken? "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Lance Rossiter
CHAINS Corp
13
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zoctrine wrote:There's nothing wrong with the Skill Training at this time.
There's lots of other important issues that need addressing, lets focus on them please...
I feel the same. I like the skill system as it stands. |
Bohoba
Moon In Scorpio The Kadeshi
6
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:So all I'd have to do is make a bunch of accounts & switch to the new flavour of the month constantly? Sure, what could possibly go wrong. Flavour of the month is such a crock of **** argument in EVE. There are some ships that are better than others ... but you definitely do not see players migrating to single hulls en masse over all other hulls (other than capital ships.) Plus, I'm sure CCP would love for you to have a number of extra active accounts, even if all they're doing is amassing attribute points. That's true, you almost never see a mission runner in a drake or tengu. You almost never see blobs of them in pvp either. I'm sure with the ship changes, you won't see people en masse figure out which is the best ship, and move to it either. If there's one thing the EVE playerbase isn't, it isn't a bunch of min-maxers with spreadsheets and even more spreadsheets breaking down which thing is the best.
huh wat? arn't all eve players Geeks or is that Goons :)
I have a calculater on my desk :) lol
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Xercodo
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1463
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bohoba wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:So all I'd have to do is make a bunch of accounts & switch to the new flavour of the month constantly? Sure, what could possibly go wrong. Flavour of the month is such a crock of **** argument in EVE. There are some ships that are better than others ... but you definitely do not see players migrating to single hulls en masse over all other hulls (other than capital ships.) Plus, I'm sure CCP would love for you to have a number of extra active accounts, even if all they're doing is amassing attribute points. That's true, you almost never see a mission runner in a drake or tengu. You almost never see blobs of them in pvp either. I'm sure with the ship changes, you won't see people en masse figure out which is the best ship, and move to it either. If there's one thing the EVE playerbase isn't, it isn't a bunch of min-maxers with spreadsheets and even more spreadsheets breaking down which thing is the best. huh wat? arn't all eve players Geeks or is that Goons :) I have a calculater on my desk :) lol
Ikr?
My response to him
The Drake is a Lie |
The Logi
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maybe its just me and I am being crazy and hostile, but II find it very grating when you begin every post with a link to your blog. Is your blog really hurting that bad for traffic that you need to spam the link in GD every other day?
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ACE McFACE
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
877
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:How about interest on amassed SP?
Or maybe put amassed SP on the market and sell it?
Buy PLEX with real money, sell PLEX on market, buy SP, break game. "No one drove in New York, there was too much traffic." |
ACE McFACE
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
877
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
The Logi wrote:Maybe its just me and I am being crazy and hostile, but I find it very grating when you begin every post with a link to your blog. Is your blog really hurting that bad for traffic that you need to spam the link in GD every other day? Probably has ads on it. "No one drove in New York, there was too much traffic." |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
843
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Posted - 2012.11.22 03:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:Dreadnoughts are not particularly useful in wormholes. i laughed pretty hard at this.
your idea isnt bad but IMO it isnt needed. current system works well and mean you have to make actual decisions regarding your training rather than just plugging in what you need when you need it. |
ThisIsntMyMain
Republic University Minmatar Republic
140
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Posted - 2012.11.22 03:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote:So it's essentially the current system with the skill decision back-loaded rather than front-loaded?
No, its not. The current skill point system trains different skills at different rates depending on your attributes and implants
Tippia wrote: Instead, just count time-units, and when it's time to pick a skill, the attributes determine the TU-to-SP exchange ratio.
This becomes really complex. Instead of training some skills faster, you're suggesting different skills cost more or less SP depending on your attributes and implants. But what happens if you do a remap or get your implants podded half way through your training period ?
The OP's suggestion can only work if you remove attributes and implants from the game. You would be left with no ability to specialise and everyone would buy one single implant which maximises skill point gain. Is that really what you want ?
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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1454
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Posted - 2012.11.22 03:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Quote:Dreadnoughts are not particularly useful in wormholes. i laughed pretty hard at this. So people don't keep getting sidetracked. :)
Quote:Dreadnoughts were never a ship you were super keen to fly anyways, and now that you're soon to be living in a C3 wormhole you really need to train up strategic cruisers and those damned scanning skills. Under EVE's current system, that's pretty much 100 days of wasted skill training you'd have completed towards dreads, a ship that you're no longer interested in flying, and probably no longer interested in training towards. Amarr Militia |
Alexila Quant
Strategic Acquisitions Group
32
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Posted - 2012.11.22 04:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
What about people who don't want to accumulate Charisma points? The only way this would work is if you could choose what attributes to accumulate skill points for. |
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