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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vannilator
MediaCataclysm
3
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Posted - 2012.11.22 12:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just read the latest devblog about the bounty system and i thought of a way it could possibly be exploited once again.
My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)
This way they blow up their shuttle and decrease the bounty by 20% (20M with the above example) if they do it in that specific region (where they set a high price for a specific ship)?
Would this be a way that works? Or is this something the payouts won't be based upon? I'm not sure since the only info i find in the blog is: "The 20% payout is based on the loss value of the kill report"
Kind Regards,
Vannilator |
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
122
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I"m fairly certain bounties will be calculated using a similar if not the same system as insurance.
What this means (If i'm right here) is that the payout will be based on the mineral values of said ship. If placing sell orders at unusually high prices can influence the average that the game calculates, it would take a whole lot of tritanium to influence the value enough to inflate the price of a shuttle to levels where it can be profitable to collect bounties in this manner.
I would also assume that if this were possible people would already be doing this with insurance. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2899
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pricing goes on the same scale as they use for calculating the worth of your cargo. OPs idea wont work. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2971
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. |
Aziesta
Sathainn Braithrean Cartel Apocalypse Now.
128
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
They said bounty pay-out is based on the ingame lossmail price. This in turn is calculated using the game-wide average price for the ship/modules (over a 3 month period I believe). So it is in effect impossible to game the system as much as you describe.
Something similar happened when FW LP payouts based on value were first introduced. But CCP fixed that, so they are well aware of the possibilities, and have plugged the holes that used to exist. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
608
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players.
This is our method. Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Vannilator
MediaCataclysm
3
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the input; i was thinking along the wrong lines then. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
457
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. Besides this, there's no way you'd be able to sell enough shuttles on the market to raise the price so high. The FW "exploit" was done with items so undesirable they were rarely traded, I remember? |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
720
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vannilator wrote:Just read the latest devblog about the bounty system and i thought of a way it could possibly be exploited once again.
My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)
This way they blow up their shuttle and decrease the bounty by 20% (20M with the above example) if they do it in that specific region (where they set a high price for a specific ship)?
Would this be a way that works? Or is this something the payouts won't be based upon? I'm not sure since the only info i find in the blog is: "The 20% payout is based on the loss value of the kill report"
Kind Regards,
Vannilator
This has been accounted for. It works the same way the Faction Warfare Loyalty points payout works, which means its fixed to not take into account sudden uncharacteristic changes in market fluctuation. No exploit anymore. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2973
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. This is our method.
You were looking for any flimsy excuse to spread that around, weren't you?
Also my reenactment of that expression >>>
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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
140
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Posted - 2012.11.22 14:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. This is our method. So has there been a dev blog that defined what forms of market manipulation were still acceptable? |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
363
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Posted - 2012.11.22 14:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vannilator wrote:Just read the latest devblog about the bounty system and i thought of a way it could possibly be exploited once again.
My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)
This way they blow up their shuttle and decrease the bounty by 20% (20M with the above example) if they do it in that specific region (where they set a high price for a specific ship)?
Would this be a way that works? Or is this something the payouts won't be based upon? I'm not sure since the only info i find in the blog is: "The 20% payout is based on the loss value of the kill report"
Kind Regards,
Vannilator
Have you any idea how hard it would be to keep shuttle prices at 100 mil across eve? You are right though in that it is exploitable, fortunately goons already showed it to ccp through FW and they have changed it.
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Merouk Baas
The Scope
4
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Posted - 2012.11.22 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vannilator wrote:My theory is that for instance people will set up sales for a "shuttle" and sell them for 100M or more. (thus raising the market value)
Think about that for a second.
There are millions of shuttles on the market, and lots of them are being bought and sold at the regular price. So if someone wants to pong a shuttle between two alts at the price of 100M they'll have to do it a lot in order to get even a bump in the overall market average.
But they pay market taxes for each transaction, and the taxes for a 100M transaction are high, even with the market skills trained. If you have to do it "a lot" pretty soon you're looking at tens, hundreds of millions ISK in tax loss.
They'll lose more than they can scam off the bounty system when they try to manipulate the market.
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KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
1124
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Posted - 2012.11.22 15:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. iirc they were going to decrease the poll time for average prices. It's still easily manipulable but will take a LOT more money to do. So it's 'fixed' for the poors. www.minerbumping.com - because your tears are delicious |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
632
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Posted - 2012.11.22 15:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. This is our method.
Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA? Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5199
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Posted - 2012.11.22 15:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aryth wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. This is our method. Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA?
Look more closely. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
161
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Poor Guard, all the tall Devs pick on him and take his lunch money. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
632
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. This is our method. Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA? Look more closely.
Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2975
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Malcanis wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. This is our method. Are you attempting to set new policy for CCP in that market manipulation is now against the EULA? Look more closely. Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
632
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic.
Which is why I asked for clarification. Posts like that tend to get referenced and used far beyond their original intention. Especially given that CCP tried to put this genie back in the bottle once with a temporary "don't do this until we fix" statement once before. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
926
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Aryth wrote: Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic.
Surely you can see how a post by a developer which implies, even jokingly, that market manipulation is an exploit and against the EULA is a bad thing? This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1818
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Aryth wrote: Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic. Surely you can see how a post by a developer which implies, even jokingly, that market manipulation is an exploit and against the EULA is a bad thing? And it's against forum rules too.
Posts need to have content. They need to be either opinion or factual, not misrepresentation or rumor. Further, trolling is not permitted. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
121
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:corestwo wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Aryth wrote: Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic. Surely you can see how a post by a developer which implies, even jokingly, that market manipulation is an exploit and against the EULA is a bad thing? And it's against forum rules, too. Posts need to have content. They need to be either opinion or factual, not misrepresentation or rumor. Further, trolling is not permitted. I hate people who get all butthurt when an official makes a joke. So we have to have a completely professional and serious-face relationship with CCP now?
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
927
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:corestwo wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Aryth wrote: Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic. Surely you can see how a post by a developer which implies, even jokingly, that market manipulation is an exploit and against the EULA is a bad thing? And it's against forum rules, too. Posts need to have content. They need to be either opinion or factual, not misrepresentation or rumor. Further, trolling is not permitted. I hate people who get all butthurt when an official makes a joke. So we have to have a completely professional and serious-face relationship with CCP now?
Considering the nature of the subject - namely, the literal "sandboxiness" of the market as a whole in which many people make there eve-living - it's not unreasonable to get "butthurt" and want things to be made very clear. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1819
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:corestwo wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Aryth wrote: Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic. Surely you can see how a post by a developer which implies, even jokingly, that market manipulation is an exploit and against the EULA is a bad thing? And it's against forum rules, too. Posts need to have content. They need to be either opinion or factual, not misrepresentation or rumor. Further, trolling is not permitted. I hate people who get all butthurt when an official makes a joke. So we have to have a completely professional and serious-face relationship with CCP now? They aren't my rules. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
635
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Posted - 2012.11.22 18:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:corestwo wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Aryth wrote: Looking closer does not change anything. Either he is saying that manipulating item prices is against the EULA, or he was making a snarky reply.
He was attemping to make a joke(as in a humorous response) by implying the creepy staring of CCP Guard is the secret CCP method of deterring exploitation of the mechanic. Surely you can see how a post by a developer which implies, even jokingly, that market manipulation is an exploit and against the EULA is a bad thing? And it's against forum rules, too. Posts need to have content. They need to be either opinion or factual, not misrepresentation or rumor. Further, trolling is not permitted. I hate people who get all butthurt when an official makes a joke. So we have to have a completely professional and serious-face relationship with CCP now?
If by butthurt, and professional, you mean, simply asking for clarification. I am 75% sure he was joking myself, but given they had expressed this exact statement in seriousness recently for a short period of time, it is not unreasonable to simply ask, "Hey man, lol right?" Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Mr Pragmatic
83
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Posted - 2012.11.22 19:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:They said it would be similar to how FW system calculates LP payouts for kills, but is being made more resilient to manipulation by secret methods they aren't telling players. This is our method.
Can someone please explain to me why this is funny or interesting? Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -Aldous Huxley
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YoYo NickyYo
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.11.22 19:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
I wouldn't worry too much. Someone will find a way to game the system, it will only be a matter of days......
I'm not a troll! I just play one on TV! I'm not a troll!, But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
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Specialbus Windowlicker
Rock jockeyz High Rollers
0
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Posted - 2012.12.19 15:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
How would this work for implants? Is the price I see when the implant in in my hanger indicative of the actual value if I got podded once it was installed?
Is there a way to view these "Eve-wide" average prices?
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Taria Katelo
South West Trading
9
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Posted - 2012.12.19 17:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aryth wrote:If by butthurt, and professional, you mean, simply asking for clarification. I am 75% sure he was joking myself, but given they had expressed this exact statement in seriousness recently for a short period of time, it is not unreasonable to simply ask, "Hey man, lol right?"
he never posted anything about market manipulation. what his comment of the EULA and CCP Guard was to, was the gaming of an ingame calculation method of the amount of ISK or LP payed out to players. Manipulating something to game that system is clearly an exploit. but he never said anything that could be thought of as "any market manipulation is not allowed". so stop playing dumb and gtfo troll
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