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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.04.25 12:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Viceroy on 25/04/2005 12:28:26
You know, I'm not a researcher, although I do have some LP lying around somewhere, but I think that the researching system needs a major overhaul to change it from the current boring time-based lottery-ticket generator into something more interesting.
Firstly, researching should be an active profession and not a waiting game. There should be science vessels that can mount research modules specific to a field of research. They could even have crystal like charges (upgrades?) to increase efficiency. These vessels would generate reports for an area of research when they are activating on certain structures. They would of course be vulnerable and slow (Arrr!)
We have an assload of useless eye-candy in space. Ruined stations, huge batteries, ship debris, complex structures that don't drop anything etc. These could be given a value like asteroids, so you can mine reports off them with research vessels.
They would have random respawn timers (No stupid post-DT respawns please) that could range from 12 hours to like a week. Since we have an abundance of celestial-eye candy, people can explore and search for new locations to research (Instead of camping certain locations after DT). Lower security systems would bear better rewards in this aspect, but you'd need escorts as salvaging technology in dangerous space is kinda risky.
Each structure would give a mix of reports, not just one type. So researchers would trade reports to gain those that they want. These structures could be added to certain complex levels as well, such as "research facility" stages.
Your report-generation rate would be effected greatly by your science skills, and possibly a new skill. Researching would be a specialized and active field of occupation.
So what to do with these reports? You can turn them in to your research agent for extra RP or you can sell them on the market to other researchers or manufacturers.
Of course this system would have to be fine-tuned to prevent people from farming a months worth of RP in 15 minutes. Even though I don't think it should screw over the idle-researchers right away, I think that in the long run the active researchers should have an advantage.
And lets face it, currently station manufacturers, who rarely leave their stations, are on the same playing field as everyone, so there is no specific "researcher" occupation. So they manufacture all day AND get an equal shot at the tech2 lottery. With this system these manufacturers would have to buy reports or hire researchers to research for them to compete. Weee player interaction, competition and trade!
I know it doesn't solve the lottery, and the idea of mining for RP isn't great, but it will at least give an advantage to active researchers instead of leaving everything to time. Also note that It's a simple system on purpose. I could come up with an uber-complex and sexy system of research, but it would be a fantasy since the coding would have to add whole new -huge- aspects to the game. This is system that I think would be friendly and similiar to current game mechanics and thus easy to code.
A few other suggestions;
- Make research agents dish out stuff other than tech2 bpos. Lots of people have suggested tech2 bpcs (low run) for less RP, and honestly it's better than watching your rp go up every day and praying that you'll get a bpo.
- Make research agents dish out meta weapons for RP. Of course the RP cost and frequency would be fine tuned so that the npc farmers don't get shafted, but again it would add an aspect to the ever-boring "watch-teh-rp-go-up" type research.
These are off the top of my head, constructive criticism + new ideas are welcome.
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2005.04.25 12:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Levin Cavil on 25/04/2005 12:33:50
I only read the first few words and then I started fading in and out. From what I gather that is a great idea and it is my expert opinion that CCP should implement such a system immediately.
EDIT: the charts were very helpful.
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Ak Gara
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Posted - 2005.04.25 12:39:00 -
[3]
Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Barak Gideon
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Posted - 2005.04.25 13:02:00 -
[4]
I like the idea of Science Vessels, like those weird sounding spheres in starcraft.
very slow but totally ³ber at EW, scanning and probe launching.
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Miner's Bane
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Posted - 2005.04.25 13:11:00 -
[5]
I like this idea, provided that the RP objects/structures need to be located with something like scan probes, and dont respawn in the same locations/systems (I really don't want to see RP campers).
The problem that I forsee with exchanging RP for stuff (whatever that stuff may be) is that there are SO many people with such high levels of RP, that the baselines for giving stuff away needs to be rather high to avoid flooding the market in very short order.
I'd really like to see more of the older tech2 BPOs dropped in the lottery (as was promised), since the first wave of BPOs is more then a year old. My impression was that the research system was supposed to give producers a temporary near-monopolistic position, then more BPOs would be released to make tech2 fields more competitive.
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Starbuck
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Posted - 2005.04.25 14:57:00 -
[6]
I love this idea.
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mom'n'pop hasn't made me a cool sig yet :)
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.04.25 20:16:00 -
[7]
With the current RP accumulation, a lot of people are going to be left with a ton of RP and no bpo's in the lottery. The two suggestions at the end are to provide an alternate purpose for RP, which are desperately needed imo.
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Cheim
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Posted - 2005.04.25 20:41:00 -
[8]
This idea supports both research and exploration as active professions and also doesn't require discarding the RPs people have already gotten the way most suggested R&D revamps do, so I say it's great.
Giving out stuff other than tl2 bpos could easily work like agent offers with RP and reports instead of LP and tags. X RP and Y reports from Sansha's hulks get you a True Sansha's blah, etc. Papa Smurf said the offer system was originally thought up for research, so there shouldn't be a problem.
We're still waiting on comet mining. I always wondered what exactly we were supposed to get from comets since we can already get all the materials necessary for tech 1 and 2 production; really good ice I guess. Comets could be researchable too. |
Alliera
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Posted - 2005.04.29 08:01:00 -
[9]
So what you propose is that the scientists leave the laboratories, go out and take pictures of all the ancient tech and remains of failed technological advance attempts?...
Sounds like the market would be spammed to death by a few million tech 2 bpos per day, seing as how people would quickly see teams of scientists grouphumping each and every piece of scrap metal in an attempt to gain the exceedingly rare and special tech 2 bpo that all their friends have...
Right now people have the possibility of gaining a monopoly on a tech 2 constuct which would give them a regionwide advantage, if everyone has the capability of creating a modulated strip miner II bpo and thus spam out the item, you would see the value of the mining equipment drop to near zero.
Same would happen to all the rare equipment used by PvP players, haulers and PvE players and congratulations you will have removed the concept of value from every useful item in game...goodbye economy.
And think about it...patience is usually a skill needed in the science, so the research system we have currently is prolly the best system we'll be able to get without crushing the ingame economy, even though most scientist get absolutely nothing from their efforts.
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allmus
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Posted - 2005.04.29 13:09:00 -
[10]
i don;t think viceroy is saying that it will give out tech2 BPO's, just limited run BPC's based on whatever is being scanned(i like scanned more than mined)
like if they were scanning a Sansha's object they could do a detailed scan of it and find a tech2 heavy pulse information report(maybe 5 or 10 Quanity) then they can take it back to the lab to make a limited run BPC tech2 heavy pulse, each quailty could be 5 runs(so using 5 Quanity in the lab would result in a 25 BPC), and people could trade the information reports on the market.
also people could refresh the only used BPC's that have 0 runs left, by inserting more of the information so that 0 run copys could be vaulable.
(i.e a BPC with 0 runs left could be increase by adding 1 quality(=5 runs per) and be useful again, this would take different resources than making BPC's because the plan is already there, your just inputing more usufull information in it) |
Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2005.04.29 13:59:00 -
[11]
awesome.
and somewhat how i thought the game would work in the first place... scientists study items for research points towards a certain field.
what would be nice would be if meta named items could be "destructively researched" to give RP towards that field. eg, want to learn rp for a t2 larrge shield booster - you need to destroy named shield boosters for the process :)
makes named items rarer :) and useful in the search for better guns (t2)
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JarmenKell
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Posted - 2005.04.29 15:32:00 -
[12]
r&d ships well maybe, as i started the game i selected custom but i jsut wanted to be a scientist.
a bit dissapointed at the start as i got scammed by zeepo.
than realised later that research in eve is nothing what i though it will be.
so R&D stations could be the solution since there is great demand for more POS.
how will it work, that were the migran kicks in.
anything like RL will propeblly need enogh programming to build anotrher game entirlly, after little consideration i thought its better if there was an agent in your R&D station were LP will be rewarded 5 times faster or even 10 times faster, first he will ask you for the main building components and the minerals needed for thew research and you select what kind of outcome would you like.
so after doing its missions you will be rewarded with a named item BPO or the items them selfs.
LP could be envolved in this or maybe note since the scientist will be working for you.
maybe you will just have to pay them lots and lots of money to operate an R&D STAION, cool.
but the outcome of it shoudlnt be dissapointing the named items researched in this labs should be as good as other named items were you get to tune them before the research starts with were would you like the upgrades to go.
either in cap or dmg.....etc etc.
R&D ships. i dont see why you should be driving a ship that have scientists on it, i wouldn t stay away from them though if they were introduced in 3 years time./
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Ronin Woman
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Posted - 2005.04.29 15:52:00 -
[13]
Some good thoughts here.
I like the research vessel & probes idea. Maybe frigate sized and fast or can use a cloak mod to explore those low security systems without bringing a mob with them.
As to BPO's, why not finding pieces of a BPO [the market will go crazy] or finding pieces of Jovian tech BP's? That would be an interesting way to intro a new ship class or type or module upgrade.
Got a question though. (I'm not a builder) Player's A & B research the same ship BP. While there are differences (I'm told) in the amount of minerals required for the build as a result of the research, the final products are identical in performance. Why is that? If I invest a lot of time in researching something, compared to another player, why shouldn't my product be better than his/hers?
Not enough to unbalance mind you, but wouldn't there be more game dynamics involved if my frigate had a few hundred more structure or armor points or maybe 20 more base speed?  |
Tisiph0ne
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Posted - 2005.04.29 18:46:00 -
[14]
yup. |
Laborantine Sensai
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Posted - 2005.10.01 14:38:00 -
[15]
 Originally by: Viceroy
- Make research agents dish out stuff other than tech2 bpos. Lots of people have suggested tech2 bpcs (low run) for less RP, and honestly it's better than watching your rp go up every day and praying that you'll get a bpo.
- Make research agents dish out meta weapons for RP. Of course the RP cost and frequency would be fine tuned so that the npc farmers don't get shafted, but again it would add an aspect to the ever-boring "watch-teh-rp-go-up" type research.
These are off the top of my head, constructive criticism + new ideas are welcome.
Ya, those 2 last could be implementent wo too munch trouble.
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Aelius
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Posted - 2005.10.02 13:15:00 -
[16]
They are RP's NOT LP's 
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