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Abeladoni
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Posted - 2005.04.26 19:55:00 -
[1]
Greetings all,
Been playing for a month and I had a question about future development. Has there ever been any talk amongst the Devs in regard to Point Defense weapons (other then Defender Missiles). For example small laser or projectile weapons that track incoming missiles or drones.
Defenders are all well and good, but obviously some ships are not equipped to carry any missile turrets.
Just wondering if this is one of those "Eventually" items, or something that has been tried before and shelved due to difficulties. Or even if it's been ixnayed a long time ago. Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks
Abeladoni
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.04.26 20:02:00 -
[2]
It would be easier to give the Geddon and Dom a missile slot.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Tonya Nastee
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Posted - 2005.04.26 21:30:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Alowishus
It would be easier to give the Geddon and Dom a missile slot.
Ugh..
Last time I check it was frigates/cruisers that needed defenders/some missile defense, not the BSs.
-Tonya
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.04.27 14:55:00 -
[4]
id like fleet anti missile ships, all high slot defenders that target any missile heading for a gang members ship, would be a nice little ship for fleet ops
have 3 classes, frig, cruiser and BS with higher number of slots and maybe defender bonueses like ROF and or damage etc...
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Vee Bot
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Posted - 2005.04.27 14:57:00 -
[5]
*cough*replace some of the logistics bonuses*cough*
hinkpokenugenugewinkwink
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Wired
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Posted - 2005.04.27 15:55:00 -
[6]
This has been discussed on several threads before and i know i'm about to start a flame war, but it's expected with anything you say now.
OK, you get point defence system, what do i get to stop myself being hit by lasers, projectiles and hybrids. If a mod is made that can effectively neutralise half the caldari fleets (not just one ship but nearly every ship) offensive capabilities, aswell as a fair portion of minmitar dmg output.
Defender missiles do work, some will disagree, they do take out some missiles, not all as some people want.
The fact some ships cant fit a missile laucher is a limitation of their design, it makes people have to think about what they will come up against, and how to counter it. A smartbomb can be used to take out missiles, but fitting one of these does cause drawbacks.
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If you cant have sex with the monkey
Make friends with the organ grinder.... |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2005.04.27 16:29:00 -
[7]
Agreed, defenders are good enough imo.
Annoying little buggers to be faced with, i wonder even... 2 kessies with defenders only... could they neutralize a raven? Has anyone ever tried that?
Just curious, carry on with your thread
signature? What signature? ;) |
Weirda
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Posted - 2005.04.27 18:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Wired
OK, you get point defence system, what do i get to stop myself being hit by lasers, projectiles and hybrids. If a mod is made that can effectively neutralise half the caldari fleets (not just one ship but nearly every ship) offensive capabilities, aswell as a fair portion of minmitar dmg output.
Yeah - there's this awesome little thing that turrets have called 'tracking' (oh and optimal range) that you can use quite effectively (by how you chose to fly your ship) to render their offensive capabilities useless. If that is not enough, a tracking disruptor (or even a named tracking disruptor) can invalidate even the highest tracking guns... Unless you're talking a frig gun vs a bs... 
Originally by: Wired
The fact some ships cant fit a missile laucher is a limitation of their design, it makes people have to think about what they will come up against, and how to counter it. A smartbomb can be used to take out missiles, but fitting one of these does cause drawbacks.
Absolutely agree 100% here though. IWHO - a point defence system is unnecessary. There are already other means. 
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Thread Killer
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.04.27 19:14:00 -
[9]
ooh, ooh, I disagree :)
Make one of T2 amos anti-missile.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.27 21:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
ooh, ooh, I disagree :)
Make one of T2 amos anti-missile.
Heehee, autocannons would rule for that.
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Miner's Bane
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Posted - 2005.04.27 21:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Wired
OK, you get point defence system, what do i get to stop myself being hit by lasers, projectiles and hybrids. If a mod is made that can effectively neutralise half the caldari fleets (not just one ship but nearly every ship) offensive capabilities, aswell as a fair portion of minmitar dmg output.
The difference between anti-missile systems and anti-turret systems is that antimissile systems have to be fitted and activated.
Anti-turret systems involve clicking on orbit.
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Namarus
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Posted - 2005.04.27 21:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: 000Hunter000
Agreed, defenders are good enough imo.
Annoying little buggers to be faced with, i wonder even... 2 kessies with defenders only... could they neutralize a raven? Has anyone ever tried that?
Just curious, carry on with your thread
Why would a Raven pilot spend his time targetting a Kestrel with defenders? He would switch targets, and engage somethign else.
Nothing to see here .... move along. |
Roan Alexander
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Posted - 2005.04.27 23:07:00 -
[13]
point defence should be,
defenders for missiles
Chaff / flare for Torps.
Sandcast turrets for lasers (remember traveller anyone - trillion credit squadron especially)
Gattling gun for Projectile
similar anti projectile defence for hybrid ammo.
All High slot kit, not 100% but giving you a fighting chance
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Cracken
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Posted - 2005.04.27 23:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wired
This has been discussed on several threads before and i know i'm about to start a flame war, but it's expected with anything you say now.
OK, you get point defence system, what do i get to stop myself being hit by lasers, projectiles and hybrids. If a mod is made that can effectively neutralise half the caldari fleets (not just one ship but nearly every ship) offensive capabilities, aswell as a fair portion of minmitar dmg output.
Defender missiles do work, some will disagree, they do take out some missiles, not all as some people want.
The fact some ships cant fit a missile laucher is a limitation of their design, it makes people have to think about what they will come up against, and how to counter it. A smartbomb can be used to take out missiles, but fitting one of these does cause drawbacks.
You have ew tracking disrupters and shields have a nice day.
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AL CapOwn
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Posted - 2005.04.28 01:09:00 -
[15]
It would be stupid to just add a missile slot on a BS that cant use missiles because all the owners are gonna do is fit it wiht torps or cruise missiles. I think that the point defence thing should shoot slightly faster then a rocket launcher's ROF, but do less damage then a defender would.
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Derek Rainier
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Posted - 2005.04.28 02:12:00 -
[16]
I agree, for the non-missle-endowed ships out there, it would be nice to have a couple of point-defense weapons.
*phalanx laser - multi-barrel short-range laser
*gatling cannon - multi-barrel short-range cannon
*gatling blaster - multi-barrel short-range blaster
These things would be very short range and not 100% effective. They would take up a slot. What's the controversy?
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Starplier
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Posted - 2005.04.28 03:57:00 -
[17]
i agree with the whole point-defense turret idea, but how would it work in practicality; would you just activate the gun and it would stop a percentage of all incoming missiles, would you activate it on a specific ship, or specific missile, and most of all, could you use this against other ships at close-range? even with a 20mm gatling blaster you could prolly do some serious damage to at least a frig 
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.04.28 10:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Starplier
i agree with the whole point-defense turret idea, but how would it work in practicality; would you just activate the gun and it would stop a percentage of all incoming missiles, would you activate it on a specific ship, or specific missile, and most of all, could you use this against other ships at close-range? even with a 20mm gatling blaster you could prolly do some serious damage to at least a frig
Work it the same way as defenders do, targets the nearest missile until destroyed, but give it short range 2 sec RoF or something
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(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2005.04.28 10:58:00 -
[19]
Point defense, we have this already.
Use fast tracking turrets, fit a webber and a target painter. Smart bombs are an option, too.
____________________________________________________
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MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.04.28 11:00:00 -
[20]
Edited by: lythos miralbar on 28/04/2005 11:00:51
Quote:
The difference between anti-missile systems and anti-turret systems is that antimissile systems have to be fitted and activated.
Anti-turret systems involve clicking on orbit.
In an engagement at 40 or 50 km the transversal generated by a bs orbiting isnt going to do squat to reduce the dammage he is taking. Nope, if there is another high slot missile dammage reducing module in game I want a similar module to reduce incoming turret fire.
Either that or missiles have to be made faster and more powerfull to counter the new module
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Phoenicia
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:02:00 -
[21]
IŠll play the bad girl in this, in saying that we HAVE all the Point Defense we want.
Shields & Armor.
They stop damage to hull and critical systems by any and all weapons for a certain amount of time. That is their purpose.
Now you want a system that defends against damage to systems that defend against damage? Lets compare to real life: The only thing stopping a projectile from doing actual damage is armor.
You dont see tanks with a really small gatling cannon able to take out 120mm shells flying at them at high speed, do ya? Its armor is designed to take such a blow.
We got all the defense we need in shields & armor. Hell, in my opinion even the Defenders are unnecessary (but realistic, missiles irl CAN take out other missiles).
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CCP deleted my sig pic cause it was 50 pixels too wide and all I got was this lousy text. |
Ruad
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:20:00 -
[22]
Naval ship have vulcans that can shoot down incoming missiles and airplanes, they shoot ungodly amount of bullets in seconds, air craft use counter measures that are basicaly flares that fool them into thinking flare's heat signature is the aircraft, as far as missile shooting missiles believe it or not its least effective of anti-missile systems. Cant totaly base everything off realitly but sometimes missiles can be too powerful had one salvo from a ferox almost kill my thorax, I would love to see a brutix do that much damage, I was totaly outclassed skill wise but still.... ouch, if it wasnt for slow movment of missiles I would of died
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:31:00 -
[23]
heheh.. ok I'll get all sci-fi on your but.. 
If your gonna quote real life I'll quote ficticious made up stuff.. hows that for an argument.. 
Anyway.. new module.. the "remote field projection gizmo"
Quote:
Description:-
Thanks to the rapid advance of modern technology and in particular the now common quantum microprocessor that can work at faster than light speeds, a new point defence system has been created. The module uses a large amount of processing power (re high cpu use) to predict the path of incoming dammage to the ship carrying it. A low powered force field similar to that found in a regular ships shields is then projected ahead of the incoming dammage. This field is not strong enough to negate attacks completely but this is not what it was intended for.
It is designed to deflect projectiles from thier origional course by just a few degrees which can often reduce the dammage taken by the carrying ship. It is also able to deflect the incoming dammage from laser weapons. It does this by defracting the beam as it passes through the field in the same way light is defracted through water.
There you go , a point defence system against turret based weapons 
I guess the point im trying to make is that if that was introduced then everyone who uses turrets would scream blue murder. Well missile users already have that to deal with.
And before anyone shouts "but turrets have tracking to deal with too", well missiles have time to target issue's which is at least as much of a problem.
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.04.28 12:56:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Naval ship have vulcans that can shoot down incoming missiles and airplanes, they shoot ungodly amount of bullets in seconds, air craft use counter measures that are basicaly flares that fool them into thinking flare's heat signature is the aircraft, as far as missile shooting missiles believe it or not its least effective of anti-missile systems. Cant totaly base everything off realitly but sometimes missiles can be too powerful had one salvo from a ferox almost kill my thorax, I would love to see a brutix do that much damage, I was totaly outclassed skill wise but still.... ouch, if it wasnt for slow movment of missiles I would of died
Errrr ferox fits 5 heavy launchers.. with 4 low slots. Assuming every low was fitted with a balistic control and he had heavy missiles lvl5 (unlikely) that would be I guess about 220 hp per missile. so x5 = 1100 hp if he used thunderbolts (eg EM) against unhardened shields.
Now thats you shield gone.. fair enough.. but it'll take at lease two more volleys to get through your armor.
Again this is all if you had no tank on and didnt have a big armor plate on that I hear alot of thorax pilots use.
Now if your close enough and your skills are ok you'll be able to get in and do some serious dammage..
If your too far away to close in before you get pounded your going to be out of warp disrupter range anyway and you can just warp out.
Thorax = (or maybe >?) ferox with launchers...
Will you be able to kill him.. dunno.. I never tried to kill a ferox in a thorax.
One thing I will say though.. if that had been a railox (ferox tooled out with 5x 250mm rails, two heavy launchers + dammage mods..) you would have taken a MASSIVE beating. far more that you did from those missiles.
I can put out almost BS levels of dammage from my ferox. Just the other day I saw of a vagabond.. he ran when he saw he had no shields left and I was still at 80%.
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