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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.04.26 21:59:00 -
[1]
Ive played many games in which I was an avid PvPer but I dont PvP in Eve. "But why Derisor?" you might ask. It has nothing to do with guts or anything like that. It has simply to do with practicality.
There are PvPers and there are Gankers; to be specific there are 50 gankers for every legit PvPer. If I fly into 0.0 space, I wont meet up with pirates looking for a good fight, willing to take me on, one on one. I will meet up with some lowlife 12 year old gate camping in his battleship with his 4 other battleships. They will blow up my little cruiser like stepping on a fly with a M1 Abrams and then pat each other on the back for how leet they are.
Now Gankers are like this and i accept that. I have repeatedly gone after them in other games. In neocron, for example, I was one of the most vicious anti-griefers in the game. The creifing clans came to fear me. I even remember one time when (due to a deep cover source I had among them) I knew that almost every grifer and self procalimed leet dude was looking for me as I went on a rampage in their own home base. They eventually found me but I got 30 or so of them before they did.
So why dont I do that in this game? Simple answer ... resources. I am a casual player and I dont have time to work up billions of reserve credits to refinance the wipeouts. I can barely afford to buy my skill packs. So, unlike the neocron pvp, I would essentially loose everything by going into 0.0 space and gettign ganked by some 12 year old who terminally has his fly unzipped and a measuring stick in hand.
Would i if I had the resources? Damn right I would. I would take the fight to them. The problem is that i dont. What is more, the pvpers out there are almost all long term players with massive skills advantages. You ask on the help channels and they will give you anywhere from 6 months to a year to have the skills to even TRY.
Now i know the Griefers out there are bummed that we dont all flock to their gate camps, but thats life. We are not in the game to provide you with opportunites to use that measuring stick, nor to provide you with opportunites for you to gloat over how courageous and daring you were to blow up a freighter with 12 battleships. *shrug* Too bad for you.
There is more to this game than PvP and until pvp becomes accessible to the newer players, the PvE crowd will always be much larger.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:05:00 -
[2]
They'll all tell you to go join a rich corporation, which would put you on the side of the gankers, possibly going after other gankers...
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Jiggy
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:10:00 -
[3]
Out of curiousity which NC server did you play, from the sounds of it saturn but pluto and uranus eventually turned idiot heavy too.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:19:00 -
[4]
Ah, Neocron. I miss that game. Too bad the new version blows, and hardly anyone bothers playing the original anymore... I had a ton of fun there though. Played on Saturn m'self.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:22:00 -
[5]
blah blah blah
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:23:00 -
[6]
The EVE retail box said I could be a pirate.
Are you saying that's against the rules now?
That's it. I'm suing.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:23:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
blah blah blah
Indeed!
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Lorth
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:30:00 -
[8]
What an arogent post. You do nothing but throw personal insults at any one who has ever engaged in PVP.
Not only that, but you seem to know nothing of what happens during a typical PVP encounter. You sir, need to actually learn about what you talk about, before making an idotic post.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Derisor
There is more to this game than PvP and until pvp becomes accessible to the newer players, the PvE crowd will always be much larger.
We in the buisness call it "teamwork", "numbers" and "trying"
_______________________________________________________
Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Estarriol
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Derisor
If I fly into 0.0 space, I wont meet up with pirates looking for a good fight, willing to take me on, one on one.
Name a time, place, and ship class and I'm sure we can accommodate you.
As for not being able to afford PvP... with the current insurance constracts available, that's really no excuse.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:41:00 -
[11]
I'm sorry your PVP wasn't hand delivered to you as you seem to want it delivered. But I have to wonder whether you realize that it is YOU who determine how to engage Eve witin the realm of PVP. All the skills and tactics are there for the wise to utilize.
So, yes, I'm saying the problem is YOU. Not the l33t d00d camping HEDGP in Raven00456.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cummilla
I'm sorry your PVP wasn't hand delivered to you as you seem to want it delivered. But I have to wonder whether you realize that it is YOU who determine how to engage Eve witin the realm of PVP. All the skills and tactics are there for the wise to utilize.quote]
Nail, head 
You are taking a very narrow minded view, if you warp stupidly into 15 people in bships in ur cruiser u think they arnt gonna kill you because its unfair.
Well buhu
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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SlaneeshZ
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:52:00 -
[13]
Edited by: SlaneeshZ on 26/04/2005 23:00:36
I think the gankers are alot older than 12 but I think the OP was just exaggerating. In fact if there would be more stuff to concentrate on in 0.0 the gankers in 0.1 - 0.4 would be no problem at all but a self-solving one and people would have their hands tied in serious stuff. The gankers I have met in my time were either ranging from "I do not speak with you because my I am longer in this game than you!" to "Damn, I was hunting all day and never got a kill, now finally! Thank you!". I found the latter kind more respectable as they were roaming through the system and were hunting down ships at their own size and not just smoking cigarettes while waiting at the gate for some slow and non-bookmark using indie passing by. As for 6 battleships killing a cruiser, that is okay, you need to remember that 6 hostile battleships aren't just camping at the gate for fun, no corp would waste so much resources for just a pure gank, there is a reason for them sitting there and you were a part of it. Better buy a shuttle and travel into that system before bringing in your non-stock ware equipped stuff. And learn to travel in a pod ^_^
The other matter...longterm players. In every game there is a group of veterans, the smaller the community the more tight-knit the vets are, they tend to be quick in defense with their burning swords and hate-spitting alts and they always crave for the good ol' times. Just live with them, get a thick hide and a flame-resistant suit. 
EDIT: If they told you that you need 6 months for useable skills then they were kidding you. You can fly a battleship within less than 2.5 months if you wish, and within less than a week you could be a useful hauler or tackler, it's just that you start specializing after 3 months.
----
A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game. |
Tairos Hakonnus
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:53:00 -
[14]
----------------------------
http://spla.sh/bp/bp_files/main.htm |
aeti
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:54:00 -
[15]
Why do you refer to people that use effective teamwork as 12 year olds?
If you plan what you do and operate with the assistance of others, there is no need to have billions in reserve.
Don't expect to solo 0.0, you say you go looking for "pirates looking for a good fight". There are very few pirates in the game, yet alone in 0.0
Instead expect to meet vast military empires, you are on their land which they WILL defend.
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anister
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Posted - 2005.04.26 22:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Derisor
6 months to a year to have the skills to even TRY..
Lies.
___
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Amataras
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Posted - 2005.04.26 23:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Derisor
Ive played many games in which I was an avid PvPer but I dont PvP in Eve. "But why Derisor?" you might ask. It has nothing to do with guts or anything like that. It has simply to do with practicality.
There are PvPers and there are Gankers; to be specific there are 50 gankers for every legit PvPer. If I fly into 0.0 space, I wont meet up with pirates looking for a good fight, willing to take me on, one on one. I will meet up with some lowlife 12 year old gate camping in his battleship with his 4 other battleships. They will blow up my little cruiser like stepping on a fly with a M1 Abrams and then pat each other on the back for how leet they are.
Now Gankers are like this and i accept that. I have repeatedly gone after them in other games. In neocron, for example, I was one of the most vicious anti-griefers in the game. The creifing clans came to fear me. I even remember one time when (due to a deep cover source I had among them) I knew that almost every grifer and self procalimed leet dude was looking for me as I went on a rampage in their own home base. They eventually found me but I got 30 or so of them before they did.
So why dont I do that in this game? Simple answer ... resources. I am a casual player and I dont have time to work up billions of reserve credits to refinance the wipeouts. I can barely afford to buy my skill packs. So, unlike the neocron pvp, I would essentially loose everything by going into 0.0 space and gettign ganked by some 12 year old who terminally has his fly unzipped and a measuring stick in hand.
Would i if I had the resources? Damn right I would. I would take the fight to them. The problem is that i dont. What is more, the pvpers out there are almost all long term players with massive skills advantages. You ask on the help channels and they will give you anywhere from 6 months to a year to have the skills to even TRY.
Now i know the Griefers out there are bummed that we dont all flock to their gate camps, but thats life. We are not in the game to provide you with opportunites to use that measuring stick, nor to provide you with opportunites for you to gloat over how courageous and daring you were to blow up a freighter with 12 battleships. *shrug* Too bad for you.
There is more to this game than PvP and until pvp becomes accessible to the newer players, the PvE crowd will always be much larger.
How long have you been playing? Generating isk to finance your pvp isn't really that hard if you build upon your assets everytime you make some isk. Move out to 0.0 and join a corp, they will help you get along.
It sounds to me like you are trying to solo the game. Eve is a social game, so to get anywhere you will need to work with others.
--------------
The Eve Diplomacy Table
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Arbenowskee
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Posted - 2005.04.26 23:10:00 -
[18]
I started to PvP in my blackbird with 300k SP. All i could use were heavy missiles and i was learning remote sensor linking skill on the way to the battle, so i could use dampeners. That was within 14 day trial i think. I lost the ship, but it was fun ;)
Just find a corp that can help u with resources a bit and u won't have to "wait" 6 months to start PvP in 0.0 . every "fleet" there needs scouts/tacklers, so even low-SP players can be very useful.
Remember: EvE is a team game, so doing everything solo is 100 times harder than doing it in a team.
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Seribus
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Posted - 2005.04.26 23:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: aeti
Why do you refer to people that use effective teamwork as 12 year olds?
If you plan what you do and operate with the assistance of others, there is no need to have billions in reserve.
Don't expect to solo 0.0, you say you go looking for "pirates looking for a good fight". There are very few pirates in the game, yet alone in 0.0
Instead expect to meet vast military empires, you are on their land which they WILL defend.
I'm sorry but this is pretty much BS. If they really were just worried about defending their territory they would not automatically kill a ship that happened to jump into their territory. Instead, they would first either warn them off or ask their purpose. A single ship is not a military threat though it does require investigation.
I like PvP but I do tend to lump gate campers who fire on anything (be it a battleship or a mere Indy who may just be doing some trading).
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.04.26 23:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Seribus
I'm sorry but this is pretty much BS. If they really were just worried about defending their territory they would not automatically kill a ship that happened to jump into their territory. Instead, they would first either warn them off or ask their purpose. A single ship is not a military threat though it does require investigation.
If game mechanics allowed it, we might consider it.
That is, if the quite clear warnings that most alliances post on forums and thru cans next to choke systems of "don't enter without authorisation" aren't enough
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Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2005.04.26 23:39:00 -
[21]
Everyone and their mother anchor those cans, few are able to back them up or even around anymore...
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.04.26 23:56:00 -
[22]
Some people just can't take a game based on more real issues. I wish the gangs in the real world would stop ganking innocent people for real money but that's how it is. The world is so big and there is so many places to live in a nice community. Why is EVE any diffrent? I'm in the same boat as you about the gankers but I understand why they do it. I know why I have done it .
Fact is you can't expect some hidden laws for PvP. It's like trying to get every gang in the world to honor some "Honor Code". It just wont happen. Stop asking the impossiable. I like EVE for respecting that and adding it to the game. It makes it more "Free Will" and "Realistic".
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Sochin
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Posted - 2005.04.27 00:03:00 -
[23]
Why is it that idiots always assume every single person who ever camped a gate is a 12 year old?
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Blind Man
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Posted - 2005.04.27 00:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sochin
Why is it that idiots always assume every single person who ever camped a gate is a 12 year old?
Yeah, he's right, i'm 14 
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Caanan
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Posted - 2005.04.27 00:28:00 -
[25]
This is a funny thread.
I've never played neocron before, but from what you're saying you can easily kill tons of people alone in that game. That is not the case in EVE. If you showed up with 4 BS on your side against the gate campers you'll either get a fair fight, or they will be too scared to take you on and will run away. You can't take them one with a single cruiser and just totally own them.
Thats why I liked eve, because its one of the few mmos that promotes teamwork in pvp.
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H0ot
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Posted - 2005.04.27 00:50:00 -
[26]
"..They will give you anywhere from 6 months to a year to have the skills to even TRY."
While the learning curve in EVE is steep, it is no less so than some other big MMO's out there. It took me more than a year to master UO PvP. (Then when I finally did they removed non-con PvP from most of the game..  )
It took me 9 months to reach the top of the food chain on DAoC's Mordred. In EVE, 9 months is enough to specialize in a single ship and be skilled enough to take on anyone and come out on top, tactics/numbers/setups/luck allowing. In short skill points are overrated. They are only a small factor in the equation of who wins or loses in a PvP fight.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Felony Assualt
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Posted - 2005.04.27 01:06:00 -
[27]
Can i have your stuff then. Obvisously this game isnt for idiots like you.
Those who can, do; Those who cant, teach |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.04.27 01:26:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 27/04/2005 01:27:33
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
blah blah blah
It's Derisor. What did you expect?
Stating the well known in a pointless babble is what he does best :)
PS Derisor? I'll duel you in small ships anytime. I'm over in FIX space atm if you want to find me.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Seribus
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Posted - 2005.04.27 01:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Seribus
I'm sorry but this is pretty much BS. If they really were just worried about defending their territory they would not automatically kill a ship that happened to jump into their territory. Instead, they would first either warn them off or ask their purpose. A single ship is not a military threat though it does require investigation.
If game mechanics allowed it, we might consider it.
That is, if the quite clear warnings that most alliances post on forums and thru cans next to choke systems of "don't enter without authorisation" aren't enough
The cans are fine if they are current and if there were contact info so you could send a message to someone letting them know you'd like to pass through and are not attempting to lay a claim. Unfortunately this is just not the case. Hell, you don't even have time to offer a bribe :)
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.04.27 01:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Felony Assualt
Can i have your stuff then. Obvisously this game isnt for idiots like you.
You realize you pretty much prove his point, showing such immaturity, do you ?
Originally by: Derisor
There are PvPers and there are Gankers; to be specific there are 50 gankers for every legit PvPer.
True. Sad but true. Very sad... but very true.
Quote:
If I fly into 0.0 space, I wont meet up with pirates looking for a good fight, willing to take me on, one on one. I will meet up with some lowlife 12 year old gate camping in his battleship with his 4 other battleships. They will blow up my little cruiser like stepping on a fly with a M1 Abrams and then pat each other on the back for how leet they are.
True. Again. But you shouldn't have put that '12 year old' comment in, people will just tear your post apart only for that because they will feel insulted (rightfully or not).
Quote:
So why dont I do that in this game? Simple answer ... resources.
I know many veterans who struggle to replace lost ships, but I can tell you this: when you have done the grind that open the doors to level 4 missions, you won't have cash problems anymore. Loosing a battleship will still be hard, but you don't need to fly battlehsips to have fun in this game, and you can buy a new interceptor every day while only doing some missions from time to time. Some don't like this idea since they'd like to 'hurt' their enemy, but it's the way CCP designed their game.
Quote:
What is more, the pvpers out there are almost all long term players with massive skills advantages.
True, again.
You don't need huge amounts of skillpoints to be good at some forms of combat though, like tackling and EW. Erm... no wait, they nerfed EW. So... tackling and scouting. Eventually, you'll fly cruisers (worthless until next patch when they'll finally get some overhaul) and battleships.
You stand absolutely no chance 1 vs 1 in any ship against an experienced player (which means both skillpoints and combat experience) but you'll have fun in groups since EVE is designed around cooperation.
I agree with you that EVE severely lacks in the dogfight aspect of PvP and when you challenge other players, they'll most often decline, even if they are more experienced. One could say that EVE is gankers' paradise, but I'm afraid it has nothing to do with CCP, but about natural human behavior.
Quote:
There is more to this game than PvP and until pvp becomes accessible to the newer players, the PvE crowd will always be much larger.
The problem is many veterans do not want new players to catch up skillpoints wise, for obvious reasons.
More and more skills come into the game and it's harder and harder to be a good solo pilot unless you specialize in a specific role for a long time, which means you won't partake in all EVE's content. But that's the way CCP designed the game. Is it good for the future of the game? No need to answer to this question, it's pretty obvious.
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