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Transport Ships... seriously?

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Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2005.04.28 16:38:00 - [31] Unless you have the problem of losing Heavy Assault ships to a Taranis, I doubt you'll have a problem losing a transport ship to one either. Transport ships have more hitpoints that Hvy Assaults and get resistance and armor rep(or shield depending on race) bonuses. The fact that you can tank out 5-7 low slots on some of them should make you pretty much indestructible to all but massive gatecamps. As far as cargo is concerned, you can get more cargo from an Impel than an Occator because of it's 7th low slot. But if you're going for transports only for the cargo then you'll be missing out on the real strengths of the ship. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Riddari Occator with it's Mark5 hull can easily be impeded aligning for warp by a pesky frigate, nevermind a battleship. I don't care about the resists, if you meet an enemy in one of those you are going to die. Yes.. I have the skill but bailed out on paying 130m for a ship which doesn't offer bang for the buck I am sick of these stupid prices on ships. Hey!!!! I won the lottery... give me isk!!!! Of all the dimwit ideas for distribution. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:10:00 - [33] I just got one of my accounts a nice shiny mastodon. And I have a use for it. And I don't mind the price tag. And seeing demand on these things... I'm not alone. So basically who cares? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Mercade	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:17:00 - [34] It just seems really simple to me. If a corp wanted to move something of value in size or quantity that a traditional fast stab'd frigate couldn't, then you'd opt to either send a blockade runner solo with say a forward scout, or it you really wanted protection, fit out an Occator as an insane tank and give it multiple battleship escort and forward recon. Now if you are attacked the indy could be scrammed and sit therew hile the escort deals witht he issue because of the insane tanking capability. If you attempted such before Tech2 haulers they'd just snipe your indy, and you'd be stuck deciding whether to stay and guard the Jcan till a new indy can come or abandon the cargo or something. It's just another tool. Like a screw given to a man with a hammer and nails, people just try and use their hammer on the screw instead of considering perhaps a different approach or conceeding that they don't need it, what they were using nails for before they can continue to still. The beauty of this game is often in that an upgraded version of something doesn't mean the same strategy always. Thank god because you get that in alot of other games with your fireball 2 upgrade from fireball 1. Thrilling. And btw: tired, at work, sorry if anything I say comes off bitter or as a rant. It's all just an expression of my opinion in the end and not necessarily the truth or opinion shared by anyone else.
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Gariuys I just got one of my accounts a nice shiny mastodon. And I have a use for it. And I don't mind the price tag. And seeing demand on these things... I'm not alone. So basically who cares? I care... I thought eve would be better then this and that is my fault for having expectations. They lured me in with promises of reverse engineering true research. You know what I don't care what the devs think of me anymore. This system of distribution is total s#it. Leave it up to arrogant game designers to drop a half ass ill thought up idiotic moronic distribution system and then ghay up the prices on lab slots to boot. Yes this game is going ghay listening to those whiners that don't ask for more slots just kill a whole bpc industry because "it should be hard and expensive to use because not everyone should play the game the pay to play to make me feel uber". I don't care if someone gets angry reading this I've have been angry about this route since they forced it upon us. On one hand you have this great game on the other hand you have this total $#1t of a tech 2 system. It just soils the whole game. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Dreck Morrison	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:43:00 - [36] I said it on the Eve-I forums and I will say it again here. The Impel just is the best thing since sliced cheese. With instajumps and 7 low slot 24.2% I hold 7 GSC and 1 LSC. I can scoop 28.8m3 of cargo. Enough to collect a jet can in one trip. The old bestower required 2 trips to get the ore. Basically saves me 3 or 4 minutes of hauling every jet can I mine! It is also very slow to go to warp though so I only recommend to use it in areas where it will be safe! Cause even with the larger armor and shields an organized gate camp will kill you (sorta like a cruiser) before you can jump. The Prorator on the other hand is a dream too. 9 AU/sec warp speed means I can get about 8000m3 worth of cargo from Empire to 55 jumps out into 0.0 in 1 hour or less! Significantly more haulage than I was getting with my Crusader and the same arrival time. Right now these ships are all about saving me time doing the things I do in game.....leaves me more time to get more sleep.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:48:00 - [37] Edited by: Gariuys on 28/04/2005 17:59:13 Originally by: Fuse Originally by: Gariuys I just got one of my accounts a nice shiny mastodon. And I have a use for it. And I don't mind the price tag. And seeing demand on these things... I'm not alone. So basically who cares? I care... I thought eve would be better then this and that is my fault for having expectations. They lured me in with promises of reverse engineering true research. You know what I don't care what the devs think of me anymore. This system of distribution is total s#it. Leave it up to arrogant game designers to drop a half ass ill thought up idiotic moronic distribution system and then ghay up the prices on lab slots to boot. Yes this game is going ghay listening to those whiners that don't ask for more slots just kill a whole bpc industry because "it should be hard and expensive to use because not everyone should play the game the pay to play to make me feel uber". I don't care if someone gets angry reading this I've have been angry about this route since they forced it upon us. On one hand you have this great game on the other hand you have this total $#1t of a tech 2 system. It just soils the whole game. No argument from me on the tech 2 system, I've been against this sytem from well before it was ever released. Understand some of the whys but will never ever like it. The component side, and POS are starting to look better. but the research side could be 10 million times better. Edit: And damn taht mastodon looks hot, it should have so been a battleship. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Galk	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:55:00 - [38] Life saver. When is a hauler not a hauler, when it's a transport ship. Mightly impressed with mine, it got through the 0.0 blocks and made it back alive thankfully. Few nano fibers, and bosh, 2 cepters at 9km start missed there shot on jamming, i was gone....... Transports ftw, they do as they say on the box. ------------------------ ---- Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/
Roba	Posted - 2005.04.28 18:05:00 - [39] Ok.... the Occ getting ganked going to warp in bull. Why? Because I have seen Deimos taking fire and being able to warp with over 50% armor. The Occ has more HP and the same dmg res. It is just as lumbering when aligning as the Deimos. So... it should be able to warp if not scrambled under the first of 1 or 2 snipers. I mean come on, your ship agility skills can't be that bad? Can then?
Galeo	Posted - 2005.04.28 18:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Lorth Toss 6 stabs on it and no solo player, and most small groups will never kill you. Who needs team work and scouts when you have stabs. Insert Sarcasm Here I agree with Lorth, quit being a pansy and stand-up and fight in your Indy, COME ON, grow some people!! End Sarcasm Here On a more serious note, which of the new transports seems to be the best tanker?
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.28 18:38:00 - [41] Originally by: Roba Ok.... the Occ getting ganked going to warp in bull. Why? Because I have seen Deimos taking fire and being able to warp with over 50% armor. The Occ has more HP and the same dmg res. It is just as lumbering when aligning as the Deimos. So... it should be able to warp if not scrambled under the first of 1 or 2 snipers. I mean come on, your ship agility skills can't be that bad? Can then? Well it is a bit slower I think, if it's like the mastodon. But indeed, getting it ganked by snipers isn't all that likely, if you're paying attention. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Sadist	Posted - 2005.04.28 19:04:00 - [42] Gee, then I guess all of you are just lucky or facing interceptor pilots, who, instead should be riding a girls bike... If they can't make sure the indy stays in 1 place, until its dead or backup arrives - thats not an achievement of a transport ship. End of story. _______________________________________________
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.28 19:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Sadist Gee, then I guess all of you are just lucky or facing interceptor pilots, who, instead should be riding a girls bike... If they can't make sure the indy stays in 1 place, until its dead or backup arrives - thats not an achievement of a transport ship. End of story. I've yet to meat a interceptor sniping beyond sentry range.. or sniping period actually. And it would be quite a achievement for a single intie to hold one of the +2 transports. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Doppleganger	Posted - 2005.04.28 19:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Sadist Gee, then I guess all of you are just lucky or facing interceptor pilots, who, instead should be riding a girls bike... If they can't make sure the indy stays in 1 place, until its dead or backup arrives - thats not an achievement of a transport ship. End of story. All depends on how far away the support for the inty is. In a gate camp you are probably toast but if its a lone inty messing in supply lines then all it takes is the transport to lock them and med nos or ecm them to get away. Only prob is that locking time is slow. My occator still needs to run through some mock gate camps and other tests to see what works best for escape manuevers.
Deileon	Posted - 2005.04.28 20:04:00 - [45] Edited by: Deileon on 28/04/2005 20:03:59 Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer to cut long stories short, these ships are totally crap....with standard expanders, the iteron V will have more cargo space than the occator... while being faster too IT5 faster? Transport ships have the grid to run MWD with FULL EXPANDERS. Did you even factor that in?? Geez man. Not to mention, with the skill reqs and price of these ships, you are complaining about a few expanders? Partials aren't that expensive. So transports have: MWD capability with full expanders, High resists and HP compared to indy, More cargo with good or great expanders. WTF do you want? They say bananas are a dish best served cold...
Sadist	Posted - 2005.04.28 20:32:00 - [46] Quote: MWD capability with full expanders, High resists and HP compared to indy, More cargo with good or great expanders. 1. You go omg, uber 200 m/s and have less agility than a mountain. Full expanders in 0.0 = dead indy 2. Which are only rivaled by their ability to be stopped dead and prevented from going to warp in a frigate, and much easily - a cruiser. I wont even go discussing what a blackbird can do to an indy, as far as stopping goes. 3. Look at number 1. and 2. Yea, its totally worth flying a 450 mil worth of a ship that cant defend itself and has crappy agility in 0.0 Even BS pilots setup with tech 2 costs less. Sure...uber ship... _______________________________________________
Lagar	Posted - 2005.04.28 20:35:00 - [47] ok for those who think T2 indy's are realy ment to be the uber haulers, feal free to leave this thread the T2 indys are designed with 0.0 space in mind... that's the fact..
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.28 21:10:00 - [48] Edited by: Gariuys on 28/04/2005 21:28:34 Originally by: Sadist Quote: MWD capability with full expanders, High resists and HP compared to indy, More cargo with good or great expanders. 1. You go omg, uber 200 m/s and have less agility than a mountain. Full expanders in 0.0 = dead indy 2. Which are only rivaled by their ability to be stopped dead and prevented from going to warp in a frigate, and much easily - a cruiser. I wont even go discussing what a blackbird can do to an indy, as far as stopping goes. 3. Look at number 1. and 2. Yea, its totally worth flying a 450 mil worth of a ship that cant defend itself and has crappy agility in 0.0 Even BS pilots setup with tech 2 costs less. Sure...uber ship... 1) 420m/s with full expanders if you don't mind. And it can't defend itself, nope, but it can take some serious punishment for a hauler. For me just fitting full expanders and doing 420m/s is nice, while having a strong defense. Edit: Oh and for warping out, that mwd comes in handy again. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.04.28 22:10:00 - [49] In response to the original Post Its already been said, but it bears repeating: The Cargo Transports are ALL roughly in the "same League" as the Iteron V for bulk hauler. Some haul a bit more, some a bit less. All range from over 22,000m3 to under 28,000m3. What they have that the Iteron V does not is 2 things: 1: They can mount a MWD AND all expanders in the low slots. 2: This the important one: Harder to kill. Not impossible, not even impossible for suicide alts in Empire. For normal empire suicide alts, these ships are IMMUNE. And if the pilot is not afk, and is not stupid, he is almost 100% immune to empire suicide alts. This means I can load one of these ships with anything I damn well please in Empire, haul it, and not worry. Even afk Transport Pilots are mostly safe, even around suicide alts, especially if they fly a Bustard and fit a shield hardener or two. On a related note, I've very curious if the Blockade running Transports are significantly more nimble than other transports. For example, if I fit a Occator with 3 Nanofiber Structure, would a Viator still be noticably more Nimble? Given Instas in 0.0, I don't give a damn about speed, I'm interested only in how fast it warps and resistance to warp scrambling.
Sadist	Posted - 2005.04.29 00:22:00 - [50] Edited by: Sadist on 29/04/2005 00:24:57 Quote: 1: They can mount a MWD AND all expanders in the low slots. 2: This the important one: Harder to kill. Not impossible, not even impossible for suicide alts in Empire. For normal empire suicide alts, these ships are IMMUNE. And if the pilot is not afk, and is not stupid, he is almost 100% immune to empire suicide alts. This means I can load one of these ships with anything I damn well please in Empire, haul it, and not worry. Even afk Transport Pilots are mostly safe, even around suicide alts, especially if they fly a Bustard and fit a shield hardener or two. 1. Math shows that iteron mk 5 and Occator have approximately same speeds (Occator with MWD, Mk5 with AB), when fitted with all cargo expanders in lows. (both about 300 m/s, which is totally fubar) Only mk5 goes into warp faster, due to almost 2 times less mass, and doesnt cost 200 mil. Besides "all cargo exps" indy doesnt need any speed really, because of instas. 2. Suicide alts? Seriously, how often do empire haulers get attacked by a deliberately planned suicide alt attack? A kestrel cant take out an Mk5 in 1 volley. Neither can a caracal. The minimum damage to destroy an Mk5 is about 2500, which is only doable by a BS. Granted that an mk5 fitted with nanos can get out long before caracals launch a second volley, and sentries will make short work of any cruisers/frigs in seconds. Mind you this is an iteron not fitted for any defense. This does not pass as an argument, sorry, unless some math and tests show otherwise. _______________________________________________
Doppleganger	Posted - 2005.04.29 02:31:00 - [51] Well just look at this way if its not worth 150-200 mil for you then don't buy one..... these things are still new and what ships were not overpriced when they 1st came out. I knew 1 or 2 ppl that paid 100 mil for covert op frigates when they 1st came out and now how much do they cost now.... 1/10th that. .
Moridin	Posted - 2005.04.29 02:35:00 - [52] Edited by: Moridin on 29/04/2005 02:35:24 has anyone tested and reported the totall m¦ u get on ALL of the T2 indy ships. im going to train for the minmatar one. it is sligly worse than the caldari but it works exstreamly well in my laser firing neck of the wood¦s
Eve II	Posted - 2005.04.29 03:03:00 - [53] Originally by: Moridin Edited by: Moridin on 29/04/2005 02:35:24 has anyone tested and reported the totall m¦ u get on ALL of the T2 indy ships. Got calculator?
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2005.04.29 04:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Sadist Edited by: Sadist on 29/04/2005 00:24:57 ... ..... 2. Suicide alts? Seriously, how often do empire haulers get attacked by a deliberately planned suicide alt attack? A kestrel cant take out an Mk5 in 1 volley. Neither can a caracal. The minimum damage to destroy an Mk5 is about 2500, which is only doable by a BS. Granted that an mk5 fitted with nanos can get out long before caracals launch a second volley, and sentries will make short work of any cruisers/frigs in seconds. Mind you this is an iteron not fitted for any defense. This does not pass as an argument, sorry, unless some math and tests show otherwise. Although it might be rare suicide alts do exist and they can take an mk5 without to much trouble. Corpmate lost a mk5 to some suiciders recently in a 0.8 system, he was afk of course. It only requires a couple of caracals not a BS. Consider just getting a couple half decent cargo expanders will easy pay for the lost caracals, this is an easy money maker for anyone with sec status to spare. If you use even moderly good cargo expanders and consider the price of these then the price of tech2 doesn't seem that much to me. Considering they continue to sell at this high prices I think many others agree.
Selim	Posted - 2005.04.29 04:42:00 - [55] Originally by: Galeo Originally by: Lorth Toss 6 stabs on it and no solo player, and most small groups will never kill you. Who needs team work and scouts when you have stabs. Insert Sarcasm Here I agree with Lorth, quit being a pansy and stand-up and fight in your Indy, COME ON, grow some people!! End Sarcasm Here On a more serious note, which of the new transports seems to be the best tanker? Impel, clearly
w0rmy	Posted - 2005.04.29 04:44:00 - [56] omg youre joking??? You mean theyre not industructable to a well organised team? Well damn, they sure do suck then dont they!
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2005.04.29 05:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Moridin Edited by: Moridin on 29/04/2005 02:35:24 has anyone tested and reported the totall m¦ u get on ALL of the T2 indy ships. im going to train for the minmatar one. it is sligly worse than the caldari but it works exstreamly well in my laser firing neck of the wood¦s maximum possible capacity with 27.44% "Local Hull" cargo expanders: Ship NameLocal Hull Conversion Badger Mark 18374.2417 Badger Mark 213582.71552 Bestower15826.11443 Hoarder13194.63793 Iteron Mark 16090.3576 Iteron Mark 27612.947 Iteron Mark 312612.52155 Iteron Mark 413582.71552 Iteron Mark 525211.00029 Mammoth18546.22785 Wreathe6699.39336 Transport Ships Prowler6597.8874 Mastadon22059.62525 Viator7761.551725 Occator26774.08231 Crane7105.4172 Bustard23110.0836 Prorator8242.767932 Impel27296.71239 maximum possible capacity with 29.50% "Expanded Cargohold II" cargo expanders: Ship NameExpanded Cargohold 2 Badger Mark 18647.160156 Badger Mark 214252.09215 Bestower16874.4771 Hoarder13844.88952 Iteron Mark 16288.84375 Iteron Mark 27861.054688 Iteron Mark 313234.08557 Iteron Mark 414252.09215 Iteron Mark 527315.55981 Mammoth19774.77786 Wreathe6917.728125 Transport Ships Prowler6812.914063 Mastadon23901.11484 Viator8144.052656 Occator29478.04163 Crane7336.984375 Bustard25039.26316 Prorator8788.790158 Impel30539.25113 ------------------------------------------------- For the price of one can of Quafe cola a day, you can adopt an Ewok... Please... think of the Ewoks...
Unpodable Person	Posted - 2005.04.29 07:15:00 - [58] By the way i got confused in blockade runner version of transports. The +2 warp bonus. Is it Warp core str 2 or 1+2 I mean does it counter a 7500 m scrambler without additional core stabs?
senz	Posted - 2005.04.29 17:35:00 - [59] Quote: I mean does it counter a 7500 m scrambler without additional core stabs? yes. EVETrance Radio - designed to enhance your flying experience.... http://radio.evesound.net:8000/evetrance.ogg.m3u
Abraxus	Posted - 2005.04.29 17:44:00 - [60] Where are people getting this 200m figure for an Occator? I thought it was around 90-95m?

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