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Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Alt Spy The Sacriledge has one purpose and that is to destroy other cruisers, it takes some time to do it but it does it very effectively. It must be a horrible failure then since a Zealot/Deimos/Muninn can do that a hell of a lot faster then a Sacrilege ever could. ________________________________________________________
Alt Spy	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:16:00 - [62] maybe faster, but not at a 100% success rate.
Wizard	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:36:00 - [63] Edited by: Wizard on 29/04/2005 21:36:08 Only ever lost 2 hacs to 1 v 1. Once lost a sacrelige to fairimear ( i think thats how you spell it ) in his ishtar HAC, drone and nos death. The other time i atacked a diemos pilot in my zealot( would of been 3rd diemos id killed 1 v 1 ) and couldnt turn my mwd so cap gone as i started nibbling at there structure, no cap so soon went the remainder of my armour and structure. Havent killed a munin solo but have had mock fights with corp m8s and its a tough bugger with great damage potential.
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain WHen I look at the Deimos and Muninn's gun setups, I feel the zealot is a bit under par, with only 4 turret mounts. Have any zealot pilots fought and killed a Deimos or Muninn? Or any other HAC for that matter? o plz, before looking at hacs take a look at the taranis and the amarr intys. taranis only gets 3 turrut slots and the rest of the amarr intys get eith full 4 or at least 2 missle slots to fill up the last high slots. Now its our turn to have more slots. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:52:00 - [65] Edited by: Meridius on 29/04/2005 21:54:31 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Isonkon Serikain WHen I look at the Deimos and Muninn's gun setups, I feel the zealot is a bit under par, with only 4 turret mounts. Have any zealot pilots fought and killed a Deimos or Muninn? Or any other HAC for that matter? o plz, before looking at hacs take a look at the taranis and the amarr intys. taranis only gets 3 turrut slots and the rest of the amarr intys get eith full 4 or at least 2 missle slots to fill up the last high slots. Now its our turn to have more slots. A Taranis has a 50% damage bonus compared to a Crusaders 25%. That makes up for the lack of a 4th turret. In addition to this a Crusader only has 5 more PG then a taranis and 50% less cpu. A Taranis can fit tech 2 neutrons with one mapc and kick ass. A Crusader cannot fit 4 medium pulse II, it always has to use ion equivilents, dual light pulse. A Taranis has 3 midslots so it can web and scramble, something critical for actually killing other interceptors. Go do some homework. ________________________________________________________
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:55:00 - [66] Err, to whomever said that 3 Medium Nosf would drain any BS / HACs cap. It won't. You know why? Because said BS / HAC would have to turn on his Armor Rep or Shield Booster every odd minute. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Nova Ivanova	Posted - 2005.04.29 23:55:00 - [67] Edited by: Nova Ivanova on 29/04/2005 23:57:31 Call me crazy but I think an Ishtar, if set up properly, will pwn any other HAC out there. I've flown a Deimos but I like a Ishtar much better. I have owned 2 other HAC's easily in my Ishtar and it wasn't even close. The Ishtar is very versatile and in addition to using 15 Heavy Drones (I have drone interfacing skill@lvl 5 with heavy drones skill @lvl 4) you can fit 2 250mm II's, a 125mm II, and 2 NOS.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.30 01:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Nova Ivanova Edited by: Nova Ivanova on 29/04/2005 23:57:31 Call me crazy but I think an Ishtar, if set up properly, will pwn any other HAC out there. I've flown a Deimos but I like a Ishtar much better. I have owned 2 other HAC's easily in my Ishtar and it wasn't even close. The Ishtar is very versatile and in addition to using 15 Heavy Drones (I have drone interfacing skill@lvl 5 with heavy drones skill @lvl 4) you can fit 2 250mm II's, a 125mm II, and 2 NOS. In the hands of someone that trained up his drone skills well, yaeh it's one nasty little ship. But if your drones are killed, or lost due to warp out etc. it's well.. not that hot anymore. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Trevedian	Posted - 2005.04.30 01:22:00 - [69] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Nova Ivanova Edited by: Nova Ivanova on 29/04/2005 23:57:31 Call me crazy but I think an Ishtar, if set up properly, will pwn any other HAC out there. I've flown a Deimos but I like a Ishtar much better. I have owned 2 other HAC's easily in my Ishtar and it wasn't even close. The Ishtar is very versatile and in addition to using 15 Heavy Drones (I have drone interfacing skill@lvl 5 with heavy drones skill @lvl 4) you can fit 2 250mm II's, a 125mm II, and 2 NOS. In the hands of someone that trained up his drone skills well, yaeh it's one nasty little ship. But if your drones are killed, or lost due to warp out etc. it's well.. not that hot anymore. GL killing 15 drones... Ishtar 4TW! Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Kirex	Posted - 2005.04.30 03:19:00 - [70] Originally by: MECHcore Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: Kyle Caldrel How does the eagle hold up to all them? caldari hac=crap caldari hac=good I can understand that u dont know the basics of the game very well But some people love the eagle and cerb. hehe i remember you :) tell us about your tanking eagle>deimos DoT theory again
Kyle Caldrel	Posted - 2005.04.30 04:13:00 - [71] I like the eagle for its good tank and its long range appeal. over 160km range? i like that. Who cares if it dosent do omgwtf bbq dmg. it does its job
deathfighter	Posted - 2005.04.30 04:34:00 - [72] I use a munin and a vagabond. I can see a demios killing me if he gets close range but not a zealot and more never a sacrilage. With my skills and munin's tracking dmg rof and gank ability i can (i think) outdamage a zealot with 720 II. Wrecking hits are at 1200 and rof is a little over 6 sec and that is 5 guns. + u never miss and can do great dmg at almoust any range due to good tracking. Rcu II helps a lot. I just can't see any cruiser living more than 30-40 sec. Must admit sometimes u have to escape so u can reposition yourself in a more favorable position. + munin is very deadly to small ships ( ceptors and asult frigates) i have poped a lot in 1 volley with 2-3 of my guns not even fireing. Death
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.30 09:08:00 - [73] Originally by: Kirex Originally by: MECHcore Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: Kyle Caldrel How does the eagle hold up to all them? caldari hac=crap caldari hac=good I can understand that u dont know the basics of the game very well But some people love the eagle and cerb. hehe i remember you :) tell us about your tanking eagle>deimos DoT theory again It's not actually a theory. On base resists alone a EAgle reduces a high skilled deimoses 400 dps using anti to barely 100dps. A large II + amp gives 78 shields a sec. You can tank a deimos for a long time even it's piloted by a high skill pilot. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.04.30 09:45:00 - [74] Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 29/04/2005 21:54:31 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Isonkon Serikain WHen I look at the Deimos and Muninn's gun setups, I feel the zealot is a bit under par, with only 4 turret mounts. Have any zealot pilots fought and killed a Deimos or Muninn? Or any other HAC for that matter? o plz, before looking at hacs take a look at the taranis and the amarr intys. taranis only gets 3 turrut slots and the rest of the amarr intys get eith full 4 or at least 2 missle slots to fill up the last high slots. Now its our turn to have more slots. A Taranis has a 50% damage bonus compared to a Crusaders 25%. That makes up for the lack of a 4th turret. In addition to this a Crusader only has 5 more PG then a taranis and 50% less cpu. A Taranis can fit tech 2 neutrons with one mapc and kick ass. A Crusader cannot fit 4 medium pulse II, it always has to use ion equivilents, dual light pulse. A Taranis has 3 midslots so it can web and scramble, something critical for actually killing other interceptors. Go do some homework. hmm didn't notice that, thx ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.04.30 11:24:00 - [75] Edited by: LUKEC on 30/04/2005 11:26:11 Isthar is probably best hac... till you meet BS with smartbomb... then you can start runing. Deimos is nice, but not all that uber that many think he is... and costs too much.(as every hac except minmaters) And about npcing... my ghey deimos which i'm using for raising ss... can easily tank 2x 750k spawn + 4x crusers 4ever... too bad they don't make fof ammo... i could go to bed during chain.
MECHcore	Posted - 2005.05.02 11:41:00 - [76] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Kirex Originally by: MECHcore Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: Kyle Caldrel How does the eagle hold up to all them? caldari hac=crap caldari hac=good I can understand that u dont know the basics of the game very well But some people love the eagle and cerb. hehe i remember you :) tell us about your tanking eagle>deimos DoT theory again It's not actually a theory. On base resists alone a EAgle reduces a high skilled deimoses 400 dps using anti to barely 100dps. A large II + amp gives 78 shields a sec. You can tank a deimos for a long time even it's piloted by a high skill pilot. with the cruiser lvl5 ship bonus u get another 25% to shield boosting with the eagle Ltech II = 300hp/4sec = 75HP each sec Ltech II +shieldboost amp = 390hp/4sec = 97.5hp/sec 97.5hp/sec + shield rech rate and ur well over 100hp/sec and i can run this thing forever my thermal resistance is now 90% my kinetic resistance is now 86.5% yesterday i tanked a my m8 his raven using kinetic torps , and i could easely tank his torp waves , with using my shield booster few times so actually thermal and kinetic weapons are as good as useless vs the eagle ( if the ship has an aditional kin and therm hardener fitted ) the ship its weak point is em damage.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.05.02 11:58:00 - [77] Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 29/04/2005 21:54:31 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Isonkon Serikain WHen I look at the Deimos and Muninn's gun setups, I feel the zealot is a bit under par, with only 4 turret mounts. Have any zealot pilots fought and killed a Deimos or Muninn? Or any other HAC for that matter? o plz, before looking at hacs take a look at the taranis and the amarr intys. taranis only gets 3 turrut slots and the rest of the amarr intys get eith full 4 or at least 2 missle slots to fill up the last high slots. Now its our turn to have more slots. A Taranis has a 50% damage bonus compared to a Crusaders 25%. That makes up for the lack of a 4th turret. In addition to this a Crusader only has 5 more PG then a taranis and 50% less cpu. A Taranis can fit tech 2 neutrons with one mapc and kick ass. A Crusader cannot fit 4 medium pulse II, it always has to use ion equivilents, dual light pulse. A Taranis has 3 midslots so it can web and scramble, something critical for actually killing other interceptors. Go do some homework. crusader hell lot faster then taranis, it got 4 low slots, looks better, use no ammo, looks better again got more cap... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
slapp	Posted - 2005.05.02 13:09:00 - [78] i can own any taranis in my crusader...and any crusader in my taranis... basically, taranis=crusader. nuff said. back to topic. ishtar is imo the most versatile HAS out there. it can have shield+armor tank (well, only shield hardeners), with maxed drone skills you get something like 200 dpc (+-15 dps) and don't forget the empty high slots (guns=+dps or nos=oponent's cap easily drained). its 5 med slots can also make it a great ecm ship (ecm+nos=dead opponent)...basically, ishtar can be one of the best HAS out there. all its pilot needs is some imagination (and maybe some good luck). i'm training gallente HAS at the moment but i'll train minmatar HAS also. muninn can be quite a good dmg dealer (i think that passive-shield-tanker-domininx-pilot once posted status bout ganka-muninn. wrecking shots of over 1200, rof of 4 seconds...) and you can laugh in the face of amarr pilots.
Coug	Posted - 2005.05.02 15:28:00 - [79] Vagabond is my HAC of choice, although to be honest I've not flown any other. I've flown a Vagabond since Jan, and only have my first Muninn on order now to test it, but I doubt I'll like it much. I was a big crow pilot (over 100+ kills) until the wide spread introduction of assault frigates, and in looking at what HAC to get into, the speed that the vagabond could do tickled my fancy. It turns like a Semi, but there's no faster cruiser out in existance... and in a full combat setup (not a drag setup) I've hit 4000m/s before in my vagabond. I've closed on many a Tempest who warped into me at 60km thinking he could pop me before I could do anything about it, and been on top of him before he could lock me (or pretty close to him when he finally locked me). The vagabond isn't the highest damaging (probably Deimos on top of target), nor is it the best tank (Amarr), but the vagabond can easily solo most battleships (especially Amarr), is one of the best tackling ships around these days, can perform equally well in a fast attack small group or a fleet for anti-tackler duty. For Guerilla work, there is no other choice in HAC's. ~C~
Kurenin	Posted - 2005.05.02 17:22:00 - [80] Originally by: Vaarmoth Malinigvious If the Zealot is fitting a MWD and can stay out of web range of the Deimos it should have a good chance. Yes. That's a great idea. What with the uber cap that the zealot has, and the amazing cap bonus on mwd that the zealot gets. Yes. Great idea. ----- [22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas? [22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming Inactivity wins you.
Black 1	Posted - 2005.05.02 17:37:00 - [81] all the zealot needs to get pwned is EW.. obv in 1v1 its lame f ppl use it.. but my corp took a Zealot in frigs coz of EW. with no drones to counter that i'll be going for a muninn instead of a zealot. -----------
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.05.02 17:51:00 - [82] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Cummilla I certainly found an awesome npcing platform. Tanked\chained 750k's bs's without breaking much of a sweat. Not too shabby for a silly blue maller :) You killed a 750k bs in a heavy assault cruiser. Congratulations!!! (you can do that in an Interceptor) Heh. Hey numbnuts, you missed the punchline...ie, that it was easy, no sweat broken and speaking of taking 5 hours do accomplish a task, that's how long it takes to kill a 750k bs with your lovely little intie. My point remains, one possible use for a sac, is as a very efficient(this is the part you didn't get last time, or perhaps you didn't even bother to read that I had taken off my nosses and put on lasers for a nice jump in dps over the suckriledge I usually fly) npc platform.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.05.02 17:56:00 - [83] Efficient would mean it being...good at something right? Because i bet you here right now i can kill NPC Battleships faster in a Taranis or Crusader then you can in your lovely Sacrilege. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.05.02 18:21:00 - [84] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Efficient would mean it being...good at something right? Because i bet you here right now i can kill NPC Battleships faster in a Taranis or Crusader then you can in your lovely Sacrilege. I know what "acceptably quick" is and the sac, fitted with lasers rather than misiles and nosses meets that standard with the added security of a tremendous tank to boot. What kind of tank you have on that crusader\taranis? I know you'll say that your speed is your tank but I cannot speak for you but npcing is not the activity with which I exercise the resilence of my ingame e-penile. It's a bit of a boring peice of drugery that is a alot easier in a sac versus and intie because of the sac's ability to absorb damage. I guess the bottom line here is that Meridius just loves to **** on the sac because he can't see uses and roles for something that can soak up damage and deal moderate amounts of damage versus the insane amounts of damage he usually associates with a "useful" ship. I do see uses for the sac that make it a decent ship to own.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.05.02 18:25:00 - [85] So hang on. You use the Sacri for something you do not like doing, because its efficient at it? Coz like, you know, its something that needs doing according to you, but you use like the most unefficient ship created for it. You could kill BS faster with a Maller for gods sake! Buy an Apoc / Raven. Please dont give me this e-peen argument. If i wanted to measure that, there's better ways to do so. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
keepiru	Posted - 2005.05.02 18:54:00 - [86] You know what's funnyest? When we got told about the pulse nerf a few people dared to say something along the lines of: "You dont really see that many amarr ships in pvp. After this nerf the armageddon will still be the best ganker out there, but its going to be murder for most of the other amarr ship, which actually were'nt too hot to begin with" ..if i remember right, they had to rush Selim to hospital for cpr. And hey guess what. Here we are, and - as predicted - the nerfbat has swung much too far, and failed to accomplish what was intended. I still see loads of geddons out there when I dare to pvp - and yes, they still kick the ass out of any other bs as far as damage - and the odd zealot and nos-sacri. ...can't really say there's anything more than the odd crusader or malediction, and ive yet to see a vengeance or retribution. As far as im concerned, balance is seen in the ships in use. Amarr doesent look v balanced to me atm. Ah well. My hope is that by the time im flying a HAC, the nerfbat will have swung again. ------------- Originally by: Gnauton It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
Cummilla	Posted - 2005.05.02 19:44:00 - [87] Originally by: Elve Sorrow You could kill BS faster with a Maller for gods sake! There is nothing "unefficent" about a sac npcing. I npc every now and then because it's a change of pace. BTW, in labeling my sac npc setup "unefficeint" without knowing what it is, aren't you just ****ing straight up in the wind and hoping none blows back in your face?
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.05.02 19:56:00 - [88] Well then, master of Sacrileges. Share your setup, so i can point out with facts that its inefficient. Ofcourse, i really don't have to as its just too apparent, but whatever. Give it your best shot, i need a laugh. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 20:01:00 - [89] Originally by: Cummilla I guess the bottom line here is that Meridius just loves to **** on the sac because he can't see uses and roles for something that can soak up damage and deal moderate amounts of damage versus the insane amounts of damage he usually associates with a "useful" ship. I do see uses for the sac that make it a decent ship to own. I see ships being usefull as in how much damage i can do in them (isk wise) before they pop. A Sacrilege doesn't pull it's own weight imo. It can't tank gank ships, it doesn't do any usefull amount of damage, it just is meh. If i'm in an assault group, i don't want any of my pilots in a Sacrilege. Waste of isk. Why bother, use an apoc if you want to tank and you'll be doing much better damage as well as being 100% insured. ________________________________________________________
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.05.02 21:52:00 - [90] Edited by: Gariuys on 02/05/2005 21:52:22 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Cummilla I guess the bottom line here is that Meridius just loves to **** on the sac because he can't see uses and roles for something that can soak up damage and deal moderate amounts of damage versus the insane amounts of damage he usually associates with a "useful" ship. I do see uses for the sac that make it a decent ship to own. I see ships being usefull as in how much damage i can do in them (isk wise) before they pop. A Sacrilege doesn't pull it's own weight imo. It can't tank gank ships, it doesn't do any usefull amount of damage, it just is meh. If i'm in an assault group, i don't want any of my pilots in a Sacrilege. Waste of isk. Why bother, use an apoc if you want to tank and you'll be doing much better damage as well as being 100% insured. Which is true of any HAC. My Megathron > My deimos in every possible way. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

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