Plates affect speed because they are low slot so you can't fit damage mods, and shield extenders don't have any penalty. Really quite logical when you think about it.

Increased sig radius is not a penalty?

- make shields suffer more from MWD sig bloom

This is actually a good idea but I would rather see it the other way around, make armor tanks have less negative effect from MWD.

Or replace the speed penalty with a heavy agility one, turn armor tanks into what 100mn cruiser fits are like.

Yes, that's better wording, current MWD bloom is plenty enough.



This I don't like. Armor ships are often brawlers, and they need the agility to operate efficiently in their optimal range. It's no accident that blaster ships have the highest base agility, it's vital for them.

Overall this is a complex core issue and any changes have a big impact on the battlefield.

Maybe keep the plate+trimark penalty, but scale back the mass addition of smaller plates (<1600mm) and just start by removing/changing speed penalty from active armor tanking rigs? As proper armor buffers are in fact quite big and I don't feel that being slow with 180K EHP is an unbearable disadvantage... but at (non-T3) cruiser and frig size the mass penalty could perhaps be a bit milder.

Good points, it doesn't help that the shortest and longest range turrets are both base armor tankers. Less speed penalty would be really good for active tanks and especially gallente blaster boats with rep bonuses.

ITT: People with little understanding of tracking mechanics.

There isn't a threshold where sig increase become irrelevant, its multiplicative so unless you have an entire fight of ideal hits then sig will be a factor

The answer is simple: It is done for balance.

Shield extenders raise the signature of ships and this also rises the damage recieved due to better tracking.
Armor plates speed reduction at the end also affects tracking. If you are slower, you can't avoid damage that good.

Without this armor tanking would be completely overpowered.

This I don't like. Armor ships are often brawlers, and they need the agility to operate efficiently in their optimal range. It's no accident that blaster ships have the highest base agility, it's vital for them.

Overall this is a complex core issue and any changes have a big impact on the battlefield.

Maybe keep the plate+trimark penalty, but scale back the mass addition of smaller plates (<1600mm) and just start by removing/changing speed penalty from active armor tanking rigs? As proper armor buffers are in fact quite big and I don't feel that being slow with 180K EHP is an unbearable disadvantage... but at (non-T3) cruiser and frig size the mass penalty could perhaps be a bit milder.

Simple answer is because armour tanked ships have more free mids for hard tackle and thus can still dictate range and transversal up close. Shield fits are faster so they can dictate range and transversal outside of tackle range.

Increased sig radius is not a penalty?

Trimarks SHOULD brick ships. The idea you are getting massive boosts to EHP at the expense of mobility.

Howerver active armor tanking is broken. It should NOT effect your speed - you already are punished by higher cap per second by using those rigs. Not to mention they are woefully bad at HP/sec repairs, even with ship bonuses.

Shield allows for more speed and damage mods.

Armour allows for more ewar/tackle.

Shields have pretty specific resists and generally easier to 'beat' by selecting the right damage types. Armour general have higher average resists so can be 'tanked' more.

FFS each have their uses and issues. Shield is super FOTM with ASB's but these are being modified.

TBH most of the arguments for either shield or armour only really apply to some specific ship hulls and even then it is very situational.

Quite literally the faster ships just have to set "keep at range" and press F1


Please show me an armor blaster ship that can kill a vagabond or a cynabal or even a well flown hurricane . . . yes we would rip them in two if we could reach them but we just cant get there

should ships not go faster and faster until they reach the 99.9999999999999999% of the speed of ligth? i think thats the question here!

and the software guys reply, 64 bits*
we need me some more bits y.y!!
(and also some other server limitations)

fact is speed should not be the true difference...

Plates add speed because you're adding hundreds upon hundreds of mm of heavy ass armor to your ship which increases mass. Trimark rigs? Same thing. As for rep amount and resistance rigs, I have no ******* idea.

The problem is that speed affects so many other things!

Larger Sig Radius means:
You take more damage
you get targeted faster (might actually be a good thing if you have blue logistics on the field)

Slower Speed means:
You take more damage
Your retreat is slower
You cant dictate range
Your tackle is worse


See the problem?

^^ this

IMHO I think the speed penatly is fine for plates and additons to amaour amount as in trimarks etc etc. Aux nano pumps could do with maybe -% (5% base say) cap regen or PG as these are obviously powered units. Resistance increases probably the same......

Just brainstorming....might have to go post on F&I forum shortly....