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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.11.29 16:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Miner bumping is a pain to the miner but they have options. They can generally still warp away and go to another belt ect. The real bumping issue in EVE is frieghter bumping on Hi sec gates. It is exactly the same as warp scramming except the victim can do nothing but sit and take it intil the gankers arrive and pop them.
You want to fix this its easy. Make it so frieghters cant be bumped in Hi sec. For all the people who scream 'BUT BUT FRIEGHTER BUMPING IS USED FOR PVP" Cool in that situation you should either be able to legally agress the person being bumped and scram them ect.
Its a cheap garbage tactic used by Hi sec gate campers to take out frieghters. Im all for you locking my frieghter and shooting but without aggression there should be no way for you to stop me from warping in Hi sec. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.11.29 17:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
I love how people give reason that Miner bumping is ok but no one that defends bumping can give one solid reason why Hi SEC gate camp frieghter bumping is ok?
Explain to me how it is ok for you to warp scram without aggression or concord action because frieghter bumping in Hi is exactly that. I would say its even more effective as you dont even have to target your victim to prevent them from warping. Its awesome that a few Million isk Destroyer can lock down a 1.5 billion isk frieghter with a broken game mechanic. Whats even worse is to train a bumping toon takes about what 2-3 days? Im sure the Billions of Isk and time the frieghter pilot has put in is just as valuable....
Its abused to sickness in Niarja, Uedama and Jita everyday. Take a look at all the info posted in this very forum on how they lock down frieghters with rookie ship aggression and bumping. The only reason why this hasnt been fixed is that it removes billions of ISK every day from the game economy and thats good for business. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.11.29 18:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:Ahvram wrote:I love how people give reason that Miner bumping is ok but no one that defends bumping can give one solid reason why Hi SEC gate camp frieghter bumping is ok?
Explain to me how it is ok for you to warp scram without aggression or concord action because frieghter bumping in Hi is exactly that. I would say its even more effective as you dont even have to target your victim to prevent them from warping. Its awesome that a few Million isk Destroyer can lock down a 1.5 billion isk frieghter with a broken game mechanic. Whats even worse is to train a bumping toon takes about what 2-3 days? Im sure the Billions of Isk and time the frieghter pilot has put in is just as valuable....
Its abused to sickness in Niarja, Uedama and Jita everyday. Take a look at all the info posted in this very forum on how they lock down frieghters with rookie ship aggression and bumping. The only reason why this hasnt been fixed is that it removes billions of ISK every day from the game economy and thats good for business. As the thread titles explicitly states, this thread is about miner bumping. I'm not sure why you're airing your grievances in here, but CCP Falcon did ask us to stay on topic. Do you think that you could, please? Edit: If you do want a place to discuss freighter bumping, try here.
Also as he stated there can be no other threads started on bumping so I posted here. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.11.29 19:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:In addition to my previous post if you remove ways of affecting highsec players without adding others you make the game itself less interesting. Look at the forum threads and the two opposing websites, something as simple as bumping has spawned as examples of this. Without this simple mechanic, bumping, none of that would have happened and highsec would be that much more dull. Ask yourself this CCP, "do I really want to remove a key tool in creating content for my game just to appease a minority of loud whiners?"
I read "Dont take away our easy completely no risk way of exploiting High sec players as we lack the ability to do so in a legitimate way"
Thats the real issue here and no other. So many long winded aurguments when this is the only real reason. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.11.29 20:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:La Nariz wrote:In addition to my previous post if you remove ways of affecting highsec players without adding others you make the game itself less interesting. Look at the forum threads and the two opposing websites, something as simple as bumping has spawned as examples of this. Without this simple mechanic, bumping, none of that would have happened and highsec would be that much more dull. Ask yourself this CCP, "do I really want to remove a key tool in creating content for my game just to appease a minority of loud whiners?" I read "Dont take away our easy completely no risk way of exploiting High sec players as we lack the ability to do so in a legitimate way" Thats the real issue here and no other. So many long winded aurguments when this is the only real reason. People can & do, take the loot from freighters after we've pulled off a gank. People can & do engage us as soon as we go GCC, sometimes preventing us from successfully ganking the target. Tell us more about this risk-free source of income mister npc corp guy.
Right because pushing miners around belts and demanding ISK to stop is full of risk. As far as frieghters go you need this exploit to pull off your ganks and know for a fact its what lets you do so. Its warp scramming with no recorse. Defend it all you like but thats what it is. The ability to disable a players ship without them having any option to survive. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.11.30 13:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176555&find=unread was a dicussion on frieghter bumping which was locked By CCP Falcon with a message to discuss it here. Every topic on Frieghter bumping brought up in this thread has been edited by CCP or removed for being off topic.. Can we get some clarity if we can post on the frieghter issue here or not????? |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.11.30 14:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Anslo wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ollivir Witt wrote:Bumping in this case is being used as a no-risk version of PVP. Didn't bother reading the rest of your huge post after this line because this line is so wrong why waste my time with the rest. Bumpers can be war decced or suicide ganked just like anyone else. Bam. Risk. Also there's a considerable risk of drowning in all the tears And then they dock up or avoid ti by dropping corp. So do miners, missioners, etc. I don't see your point.
This applies to Freighter pilots to right?? They can dock warp ect when being bumped harassed... O wait they cant thats the problem. Being warp scrammed by a 3 day old dessie pilot. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.11.30 14:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Anslo wrote:Except it does. They're in highsec doing that because they don't want to PvP. They don't force missioning et al on you, why should you force PvP on them? You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what highsec is. Highsec does not mean, has never meant, and ideally never will mean pvp-free. It's considerably safer than other areas, but it is not 100% safe. So you're simply wrong - them being in highsec does not mean they are not valid targets for any form of PVP, including bumping. Last time a checked every action in eve related to PVP there are some cause and effect. You gank concord pops you, You can/wreck flip you get and agression timer. You harass miners/freighters by pushing them around belts/gates you get? You take no risk for full reward. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ahvram wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Anslo wrote:Except it does. They're in highsec doing that because they don't want to PvP. They don't force missioning et al on you, why should you force PvP on them? You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what highsec is. Highsec does not mean, has never meant, and ideally never will mean pvp-free. It's considerably safer than other areas, but it is not 100% safe. So you're simply wrong - them being in highsec does not mean they are not valid targets for any form of PVP, including bumping. Last time a checked every action in eve related to PVP there are some cause and effect. You gank concord pops you, You can/wreck flip you get and agression timer. You harass miners/freighters by pushing them around belts/gates you get? You take no risk for full reward. I think miners should stop inhaling veldspar dust, as it's given them a curious blindness related to the words "suicide", "gank", "war" and "dec"
Sorry bumpers are War dec proof see NPC corp. As for ganking Ya lets see the option. Gank the bumper (Which for a miner is near impossible) you lose more money trying to gank them than you would paying there risk free extorsion money. Thats a win for sure... Its not and answer to the issue at all.
Our option to deal with you requires us to use the pvp system. Your option is to avoid the pvp system and its rules. See how that works. Now if I could gank you without concord interference we would be on the same level. And be real Miner bumpers dont run around in frigs/destroyers they use Machs and other large gank proof battleships to push miners around belts. Last time I check it takes about 10+ Tornados/talos to drop a Buffer tank BS. Thats fair right? Only takes one of you completely avoiding all pvp rules to pvp yet it would take nearly 10 pilots all forced to abide by the pvp system to deal with you. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 15:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ahvram wrote:Sorry bumpers are War dec proof see NPC corp. As for ganking Ya lets see the option. Gank the bumper (Which for a miner is near impossible) you lose more money trying to gank them than you would paying there risk free extorsion money. Thats a win for sure... Its not and answer to the issue at all.
Our option to deal with you requires us to use the pvp system. Your option is to avoid the pvp system and its rules. See how that works. Now if I could gank you without concord interference we would be on the same level.
And be real Miner bumpers dont run around in frigs/destroyers they use Machs and other large gank proof battleships to push miners around belts. Last time I check it takes about 10+ Tornados/talos to drop a Buffer tank BS. Thats fair right? Only takes one of you completely avoiding all pvp rules to pvp yet it would take nearly 10 pilots all forced to abide by the pvp system to deal with you. Miners who sit in NPC corps are war dec proof too. Fair is fair, right? As for what you've said about ganking... it IS an answer, it's just not the one you want to hear. You have ways to deal with them, but you simply refuse to use them because they require ~effort~ or isk. Well that's just tough. The vast majority of bumpers are in bloody cruisers, not insane buffer tanked battleships. It doesn't take much to gank them at all. Anyway, the comparison is extremely dishonest: It takes ten tornados to gank a mach, but the loss of the mach costs that pilot a huge amount of isk. It takes one cruise to bump a miner off a roid, but the loss to the miner is a few cycles worth of veldspar or whatever. See how that works?
Its just one bump one time right? Not getting pushed all over a belt and stalked to the station for non payment just to be perma bump again as soon as you undock and hit a belt. I love you you try to claim so much innocents. Griefers always play soft when defending the exploitation tactics. |
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Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.11.30 17:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Would take about 3 BC to gank a stabber (if the stabber pilot is worth anything). So 3 pilots at around 100 mill EA + sec status loss is = to A stabber and you right back at bumping with all reward no risk and free kill rights. Ya thats balanced.
It always comes back to the victims has to risk much and the bumpers risk nothing. Its nothing but a form of pvp that allows you to dodge pvp mechanics to force other pilots to your will. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Ahvram wrote:Would take about 2/3 BC to gank a stabber (if the stabber pilot is worth anything). So 2/3 pilots at around 100 mill EA + sec status loss is = to A stabber and you right back at bumping with all reward no risk and free kill rights. Ya thats balanced.
It always comes back to the victims has to risk much and the bumpers risk nothing. Its nothing but a form of pvp that allows you to dodge pvp mechanics to force other pilots to your will. You do know that a bumping fit stabber has minimal defensive and offensive capabilities?, you have to nerf the hell out of it to get the oversized MWD on, and if it's taking you 2 or 3 BCs to gank a cruiser, you're doing it wrong, I've seen a single destroyer take down a stabber in the past before concord turned up.
A 10mn Stabber does a fine job pushing a mining ship around a belt. You guys are great the defense gets weaker and weaker the more its pulled apart. Why cant you just say "We like to pvp without acctually having to follow pvp mechanic because that would be to hard for us" |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
You have plenty of options available, yet you blatently choose not to use them. Plus, most of your claimed 'facts' on bumping & suicide ganking are completely false.
Says a Goon lol. The "Facts" most come from your little forum posts and the bumper blogs. So sad you have ran out of good arguments at this point to defend this pathetic exploit. Again im sure you guys love risk free pvp I mean doing it the right way isnt the goon way after all. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Ahvram wrote:
A 10mn Stabber does a fine job pushing a mining ship around a belt. You guys are great the defense gets weaker and weaker the more its pulled apart. Why cant you just say "We like to pvp without acctually having to follow pvp mechanic because that would be to hard for us"
Have you personally ship scanned and attempted to gank bumping ships? I'm claiming that I've witnessed one (1) single catalyst gank bumping stabbers with great success. Have you tried and failed? Perhaps we could help you with your fit/skills?
Ive never stepped foot in and Ice belt and when I do mine I have dealt with bumpers before. Honestly I would not even be in this thread if CCP falcon had not closed the other thread about freighter bumping. Im agaist bumping as a whole seeing as its going to be the only way to stop goons from exploiting freighters for easy kills. I agree with it as a game mechanic and it does have its uses but if it being in game means the goons get free warp scrams on any freighter they single out im all for putting and end to it.
A good mechanic abused by people who need exploits to achieve there goals. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Ahvram wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Ahvram wrote:
A 10mn Stabber does a fine job pushing a mining ship around a belt. You guys are great the defense gets weaker and weaker the more its pulled apart. Why cant you just say "We like to pvp without acctually having to follow pvp mechanic because that would be to hard for us"
Have you personally ship scanned and attempted to gank bumping ships? I'm claiming that I've witnessed one (1) single catalyst gank bumping stabbers with great success. Have you tried and failed? Perhaps we could help you with your fit/skills? Ive never stepped foot in and Ice belt and when I do mine I have dealt with bumpers before. Honestly I would not even be in this thread if CCP falcon had not closed the other thread about freighter bumping. Im agaist bumping as a whole seeing as its going to be the only way to stop goons from exploiting freighters for easy kills. I agree with it as a game mechanic and it does have its uses but if it being in game means the goons get free warp scrams on any freighter they single out im all for putting and end to it. A good mechanic abused by people who need exploits to achieve there goals. You've never stepped foot in an Ice belt before? Why didn't you say so before making 30 posts on bumping miners in ice fields? That completely changes my earlier responses to you, here's their new version:
Because Miner bumping only happen in ICE belts right? I mean there is no one who goes around bumping the ABC ore miners and demanding ISK?? You reply is on par with the goon. Empty and pointless |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 18:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ross Sylibus wrote:Ross Sylibus wrote: Edit: Rule 24 Off topic posting is prohibited - ISD Tyrozan
This was put in place of my post about miner bumping and how it is simply a symptom of a larger problem, and I described the relationship of miner bumping to this problem and suggested actions that should be taken related to miner bumping. The post was "liked" by 11 individuals and quoted by several others. I don't know who "ISD Tyrozan" is but I would like a higher level GM to review his editing, as the post was previously reviewed by several CCP employees (I know because the thread was locked, cleaned and unlocked with my post still there) and deemed to be acceptable. We cannot have an intelligent conversation if "ISD Tyrozan" here is going to eliminate any posts that do not follow his own point of view. I appreciate the need for forum moderation, and I'm not attempting to suggest that we should not have it, but editing the whole thread in order to leave only the comments that support his own personal views is NOT moderation - it is somebody's attempt to only have his own world view be considered by CCP in this discussion thread.
Ya The freighter bumping thread was locked and we where told to post here. Then all the post reguarding freighter bumping where deleted for being off topic. Something isnt right in CCP land. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.11.30 18:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Ahvram wrote:
Because Miner bumping only happen in ICE belts right? I mean there is no one who goes around bumping the ABC ore miners and demanding ISK?? Your reply is on par with the goon. Empty and pointless
And lets not forget I didnt ask to post here I was forced to post here by CCP.
Well, to be honest, yes, I did think there was literally no one going around bumping ABC ore miners and demanding ISK. Are you claiming that there are? If so, do you have proof of this assertion?
Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.
If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 19:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:
You have plenty of options available, yet you blatently choose not to use them. Plus, most of your claimed 'facts' on bumping & suicide ganking are completely false.
Says a Goon lol. The "Facts" most come from your little forum posts and the bumper blogs. So sad you have ran out of good arguments at this point to defend this pathetic exploit. Again im sure you guys love risk free pvp I mean doing it the right way isnt the goon way after all.
Funny how we've been putting these facts in to practice for years now. There is no right way to PvP. You need to get this idea out of your head, because every action in this game is PvP, even mining & mission running. the only one that has run out of arguments is you, since you keep referring to a valid game mechanic as an emploit what it's not. Take active measure to defend yourself & stop playing the victim card.
So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.
Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 19:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Ahvram wrote:
Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time.
If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling.
I still don't believe you, as you've provided no proof, and your story is highly improbable. If you're mining ABC ores, why wouldn't that alleged Machariel pilot just jump in a Talos or Cat and blow you up quickly and safely, holding you in place with a reliable warp scram?
Because they find it more fun to push you around a belt doing 1800 m/s in a mach till you give.... or can warp off which isnt usally the case. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 19:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ustrello wrote:Ahvram wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Ahvram wrote:
Because Miner bumping only happen in ICE belts right? I mean there is no one who goes around bumping the ABC ore miners and demanding ISK?? Your reply is on par with the goon. Empty and pointless
And lets not forget I didnt ask to post here I was forced to post here by CCP.
Well, to be honest, yes, I did think there was literally no one going around bumping ABC ore miners and demanding ISK. Are you claiming that there are? If so, do you have proof of this assertion? Idk let me log on and check my 2 miners ships for Machariel paint scratchs and ill get back to you.... The most infamous bumping is in the ice fields but it happens to the ABC miners all the time. If anyone has a good solution to make everyone happy im all for it. Like Ive said the miner bumping isnt my biggest issue they have some options. But since CCP has roped freighter bumping into the same thread im here to be and advocate for the pilots who want something done about it. 3 day old dessie pilots should not be able to perma lock a freighter down by simply running into it and loling. High sec has ABCs? Man what is left of null sec mining just died right there
Ya my fault on saying ABC. Just plain old astroid belts. Im sure you people knew what I ment but you got a few freebee post to get things off topic. |
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Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.11.30 19:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.
Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings Why don't you go & ask the freighter pilots that consistently avoid being ganked by us? I'm sure they'd be happy to share the same tips we've been telling everyone since we started doing it (They actuallt work). Recycling bumping alts isn't an exploit (And frankly, why would we recycle bumping alts?). The only exploit regarding recycling is to avoid the penalties of sec status hits which we don't do, because it's just as feasible to agress with a -10 in an ibis as it is to agress with a fresh alt. A Machariel with a MWD on equates to roughly the same size as a freighter. If you understood game mechanics, you would know that an active MWD increases the signature radius & mass of the ship by roughly 500%.
Last time I was bump locked in a freighter it was by a 4 day old toon in a dessie. Your getting the 2 issues confused. The miner bumping I have experiance is:
A: Large MWD BS (Usally a Mach) warps into belt with a Cat or thrasher. Proceeds to push the miner all over the belt till the miner gives in and pays or refuses and is popped.
B: Freighter Pilot jumps gate. Lands on other side. As soon as you attempt to warp MWD destroyer plows into you repeatedly locking you down for ransom and or income gank.
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Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.11.30 19:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Ahvram wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:So how can a solo freighter pilot who is forced to take a choke point on a trade route able to take active measures to protect themselves from your recycled goon bumping alts? ( a known exploit but goons never get punished for it) I cant warp cant shoot can move cant do anything. Again this is 1 ship 1/10 my size able to lock me down with no reprocussions... Ya thats balanced.
Goon logic = no logic just guns and numbers and CCP puppet strings Why don't you go & ask the freighter pilots that consistently avoid being ganked by us? I'm sure they'd be happy to share the same tips we've been telling everyone since we started doing it (They actuallt work). Recycling bumping alts isn't an exploit (And frankly, why would we recycle bumping alts?). The only exploit regarding recycling is to avoid the penalties of sec status hits which we don't do, because it's just as feasible to agress with a -10 in an ibis as it is to agress with a fresh alt. A Machariel with a MWD on equates to roughly the same size as a freighter. If you understood game mechanics, you would know that an active MWD increases the signature radius & mass of the ship by roughly 500%. Last time I was bump locked in a freighter it was by a 4 day old toon in a dessie. Your getting the 2 issues confused. The miner bumping I have experiance is: A: Large MWD BS (Usally a Mach) warps into belt with a Cat or thrasher. Proceeds to push the miner all over the belt till the miner gives in and pays or refuses and is popped. B: Freighter Pilot jumps gate. Lands on other side. As soon as you attempt to warp MWD destroyer plows into you repeatedly locking you down for ransom and or income gank. Can't d-scan or employ a scout for such avoidance? Or would that be too close to "pay 10mil isk or risk bump"?
Its great how everyone has and answer for miner bumping but no one can give a solid reason how locking a frieghter down (Basically warp scram without aggression) is valid. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 19:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:Its great how everyone has and answer for miner bumping but no one can give a solid reason how locking a frieghter down (Basically warp scram without aggression) is valid. It's great how the people doing said freighter ganking have repeatedly offered advice on how to avoid it, but you ignore it because goons. Ironically, the people who take our advice don't complain about this non-issue.
Im sorry I should not have to go out of my way to avoid a broken game mechanic that should basically be and exploit because you cant achieve your goals otherwise. If you could you would not be here defending it. You are being allowed to in essence warp scramble a ship without agression or the ability of your target to do anything about it.
You want to target me and gank me im all for it. Thats EVE and thats the risk I run leaving station. But the ability to perma warp scram a freighter without any negative effects on you is not what EVE is about. If so Warp scramblers would not cause aggression in Hi sec. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 19:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:Its great how everyone has and answer for miner bumping but no one can give a solid reason how locking a frieghter down (Basically warp scram without aggression) is valid. It's great how the people doing said freighter ganking have repeatedly offered advice on how to avoid it, but you ignore it because goons. Ironically, the people who take our advice don't complain about this non-issue. Im sorry I should not have to go out of my way to avoid a broken game mechanic that should basically be and exploit because you cant achieve your goals otherwise. If you could you would not be here defending it. You are being allowed to in essence warp scramble a ship without agression or the ability of your target to do anything about it. You want to target me and gank me im all for it. Thats EVE and thats the risk I run leaving station. But the ability to perma warp scram a freighter without any negative effects on you is not what EVE is about. If so Warp scramblers would not cause aggression in Hi sec. Except it's not warp scrambling, it's bumping. If you don't like being bumped in a freighter, use something smaller. There is consequences for all actions in this game & I've already gone over the negative consequences of bumping which do exist no matter how much you try to claim they don't. You can either take measures to avoid it or continue being a victim. Just because you believe it's a broken game mechanic & should be an exploit doesn't make it a broken game mechanic & an exploit.
Does it have the same effect on my ship as warp scrambling? Yes infact it does so how is it any different. The only difference is the bumper takes no risk. The ganker firing at me is taking risk sure but he is only able to do this because there is a pilot there avoiding all risk by bumping.
The reason Im here is because I think it should be deemed and exploit. Atleast Freighter gate bumping that is. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.11.30 20:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
No it does not have the same effect as warp scrambling or for a few reasons. The bumper could miss (it happens) & you could escape. The bumper could accidentally bump you in an unintended direction, causing you to enter warp. You could have an alt or a friend webbing you, causing you to enter warp within a couple of seconds. I could go on about the countermeasures & probably would if they were not already well publicised.[/quote]
You would have to have your eyes closed to miss a frieghter on a bump... O wait there is this cool button called Approch Id figure you as a Pro goon would know what that was but go figure...... Bumped into warp LOL man this gets better and better. And I guess CCP will provide me a free alt account with a webbing toon as now GOONs deem it as the way your required to move a frieghter around to avoid being Goon scrammed (bumped) All invalid points.
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Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 20:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Ahvram wrote:
No it does not have the same effect as warp scrambling or for a few reasons. The bumper could miss (it happens) & you could escape. The bumper could accidentally bump you in an unintended direction, causing you to enter warp. You could have an alt or a friend webbing you, causing you to enter warp within a couple of seconds. I could go on about the countermeasures & probably would if they were not already well publicised.
You would have to have your eyes closed to miss a frieghter on a bump... O wait there is this cool button called Approch Id figure you as a Pro goon would know what that was but go figure...... Bumped into warp LOL man this gets better and better. And I guess CCP will provide me a free alt account with a webbing toon as now GOONs deem it as the way your required to move a frieghter around to avoid being Goon scrammed (bumped) All invalid points.
Uh.... Mallak is right. Those techniques do work. Not really "invalid" just maybe... "impractical" if you refuse to employ them, or ask a friend for assistance.
But yes, if you insist on not using a scout or d-scan and insist a freighter is perfectly safe to move millions and billions of isk... then Mallak and his fleet deserve your money.
Or just use a smaller ship, multiple trips. Or better.... pay someone to escort/scout![/quote]
I do use scouts and have stopped using my frieghter for any loads over a billion isk thats not the point. The point is the ability to basically warp scramble a frieghter without aggression. You have the full ability to lock another players ship down with them having no means to stop you. If you tried to do this the way it was intended with a warp scrambler you would be concorded. You are using and exploiting a broken game mechanic to avoid using the one and only pvp module that can prevent a player from warping. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.11.30 20:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:I do use scouts and have stopped using my frieghter for any loads over a billion isk thats not the point. The point is the ability to basically warp scramble a frieghter without aggression. You have the full ability to lock another players ship down with them having no means to stop you. If you tried to do this the way it was intended with a warp scrambler you would be concorded. You are using and exploiting a broken game mechanic to avoid using the one and only pvp module that can prevent a player from warping. No we don't have the full ability, because there is & always will be ways to avoid it. Try them out some time & be pleasantly surrised.
Please enlighten me on how a solo freighter pilot can prevent this from happening? Remember this can be done anywhere at any time so avoiding hot systems isnt and answer thats valid. Using and alt or corpmate last I check wasnt required in the ships description to pilot it. |
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 20:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ahvram wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Ahvram wrote:I do use scouts and have stopped using my frieghter for any loads over a billion isk thats not the point. The point is the ability to basically warp scramble a frieghter without aggression. You have the full ability to lock another players ship down with them having no means to stop you. If you tried to do this the way it was intended with a warp scrambler you would be concorded. You are using and exploiting a broken game mechanic to avoid using the one and only pvp module that can prevent a player from warping. No we don't have the full ability, because there is & always will be ways to avoid it. Try them out some time & be pleasantly surrised. Please enlighten me on how a solo freighter pilot can prevent this from happening? Remember this can be done anywhere at any time so avoiding hot systems isnt and answer thats valid. Using and alt or corpmate last I check wasnt required in the ships description to pilot it.
I just reference goons because your history shows you exploit and defend it to the death intill CCP makes it official. Its been this way for years.
And if you look back I corrected My ABC ore quote. Also Yes I dont like goons but I think EVE would not be the same place without you. Its acctually a rush to out run your camps fight you guys when you jump up to my home system for your jita run ect and im all about this dont get me wrong. But the freighter bumping thing is another one of those things that needs fixing. |
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