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Fix for high sec ganking.

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ShadowDuke	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:27:00 - [1] Edited by: ShadowDuke on 29/04/2005 20:29:40 Edited by: ShadowDuke on 29/04/2005 20:28:53 I propose this as a fix to high sec ganking. Since everyone is whining and not proposing solutions. Here is a solution. No PvP in 0.5 space and higher, unless it is a mutual war declaration. 0.4 and lower are kept as they are, but "high security" space is now considered safe. You just cannot fire weapons any anyone unless you are at war with them. Simple fix, and very effective.
SirSpectre	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:29:00 - [2] Edited by: SirSpectre on 29/04/2005 20:30:58 Originally by: ShadowDuke Impressive. Oh sure... you had to fix the post, and ruin my fun. As for your topic, I would agree, no pvp in .5+ unless at war. Pretty easy fix, but hard to implement
ShadowDuke	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:31:00 - [3] Originally by: SirSpectre Originally by: ShadowDuke Impressive. I fixed it, stupid enter key.
juduzz	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:38:00 - [4] A fix, you see alot of kessies warp into the belt your barge is in............warp out maybe or WCS's? ----------------------------------------------
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:45:00 - [5] The only fix for high sec ganking should be an intelligence test before you step into a Mining Barge.
ShadowDuke	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:46:00 - [6] BWAHAHAHA, the guy that said he wanted to kill me got his post deleted.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:49:00 - [7] the only fix for high sec ganking that has any merit is nerfing alt farms
Roba	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:58:00 - [8] Wow and eve would become like all other MMOs. What makes eve have that feel of freedom and reality? Well... today if you walked outside and into... a public place and pulled out a gun... and well fired it at someones face at point blank... Well... police would probably gun you down, but not before you got off your first few shots. Is a person with the right permits and all that good stuff allowed to carry guns in public places? Yes. Well thats what eve high sec space is like. I can open up with my tachs on someone ****ing me off... I will get a few shots off... then I will be gun down with extreme ruthlessness by concord.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:04:00 - [9] And then you make another character, and get to do it all over again. In the real world, if the police put you down, you stay down for good. In Eve you just respawn and do it all over again. Harry Voyager
Joviah Tsarian	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:26:00 - [10] Edited by: Joviah Tsarian on 29/04/2005 22:25:09 I would expect many to disagree with that statement, even if they don't post. Perhaps, if 1.0 sec space was soley reserved for noobs it may be plausible. But to suggest this for .5 and higher. Would have to disagree. Like I mentioned in another post: 'The thing about Eve is that it is generally defined by the people that play it. People, as we know are all different. Not every-one causes grief for others, but some do. You can make many anologies with real-life with Eve because of this very fact. Like life, becuase you can do it does not make it right. But the thing is ppl do.'
Inquisitor Nyxos	Posted - 2005.04.29 21:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Roba [...]Well thats what eve high sec space is like. I can open up with my tachs on someone ****ing me off... I will get a few shots off... then I will be gun down with extreme ruthlessness by concord. I would say the idea of griefing someone with tachs in high-sec space is nuts anyway. GG (\_/) (X.x) This is dead bunny.It has been intercepted and shot down in Amarr space by patrolling Navy forces.Its soul has been cast to hell and the remains will serve as snack for the emperor.
Viceroy	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:06:00 - [12] No thanks. Carebearizing the game to provide a safety net for the incompetant/lazy will turn EVE into a low class grind. Although I agree that alt-abuse is a problem, this is the most stupid solution I've come across. Nowhere is safe in EVE. Adapt and survive, or die. -
ShadowDuke	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:17:00 - [13] I think its funny that everyone of you does nothing but critize. Its like you dont know how to fix problems. Lets hear some alternate solution then. Or accept the fact that if the behavior continues, CCP will "carebearize" eve.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Viceroy die. ________________________________________________________
Trader Klyde	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:19:00 - [15] As a "Carebear" (whatever the ** that means) I have to agree with Viceroy. There are already enough sa*uards in place in .5 - 1.0 The problem is not the ganking, the problem is alts, and/or the ease of rebuilding standings so those people can stay in Empire. Stop the alts, or at least tag them with their "mains" name. Make regaining standings harder than it currently is, if they want to be a pirate, fine. Then they also have to live like one... in lawless space, where they belong. ________________________________________________ From deep in space where nobody hears my screams... Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style.
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Parallax Error The only fix for high sec ganking should be an intelligence test before you step into a Mining Barge. sush troll climb back up the pigs butt that spwned you...
Joviah Tsarian	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:22:00 - [17] Edited by: Joviah Tsarian on 29/04/2005 22:22:40 Quote: Shadow wrote: Or accept the fact that if the behavior continues, CCP will "carebearize" eve. Read my above reply. Why will CCP do this?
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:22:00 - [18] Originally by: ShadowDuke I think its funny that everyone of you does nothing but critize. Its like you dont know how to fix problems. Lets hear some alternate solution then. Or accept the fact that if the behavior continues, CCP will "carebearize" eve. This behaviour will continue and nothing will happen. Not enough people care. People are still playing and enjoying EVE. I do agree that alts killing is lame. Oh well, nothing easy to fix and certainly not very important. ________________________________________________________
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Face Lifter the only fix for high sec ganking that has any merit is nerfing alt farms wrong, how about insta banns for a week of the whole account, per offense... better yet, have the offenders account, lose all its skills so it starts as a noob, all the alts of the account...
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Viceroy No thanks. Carebearizing the game to provide a safety net for the incompetant/lazy will turn EVE into a low class grind. Although I agree that alt-abuse is a problem, this is the most stupid solution I've come across. Nowhere is safe in EVE. Adapt and survive, or die. worse, let griefing drive Eve into the trash bin... Would rather have a safe zone for the noobs then see eve die, but I guess some are so selfish they dont give a **** ... as long as they can ruin something for someone, they will be happy
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:29:00 - [21] Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Parallax Error The only fix for high sec ganking should be an intelligence test before you step into a Mining Barge. sush troll climb back up the pigs butt that spwned you... Congratulations for showing yourself up as an idiot. Anyone with half a braincell is well capable of using the multitude of options to avoid getting ganked in High sec in a mining barge. The only people getting killed are Lazy, Stupid or afk (and afk is possibly a combo of the previous 2). There are enough tools in this game to help avoid being ganked. Just because people don't want to use them doesn't mean there's a problem. Infact the only problem is alts. So I repeat, all it needs is an intelligence test so we don't have the truly incapable players going into mining barges in the first place. And even then, you can always use an Opsrey. So, Mr 'I'm blatantly too stupid to think my way out of a cardboard box', stfu and don't post one line accusations of trolling unless you have a clue.
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:31:00 - [22] This isn't world of warcraft. __ There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:32:00 - [23] Originally by: ShadowDuke I think its funny that everyone of you does nothing but critize. Its like you dont know how to fix problems. Lets hear some alternate solution then. Or accept the fact that if the behavior continues, CCP will "carebearize" eve. I have offered good solutions many times, repeatedly, for months. It's kinda hard not to become a bit cynical when CCP ignores blatant problems. I mean, if they presented their case, it'd be okay, but when they just ignore stuff, you got posts like these. Useless and full of ****.
Snub	Posted - 2005.04.29 22:57:00 - [24] I'm new. I never once got griefed in space over .5. Been a week, still no shots fired at me by humans in space .5 or above.
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2005.04.29 23:54:00 - [25] Is there actually a problem or have we moved into some sort of abstract "what if" scenario?
Torvus Jay	Posted - 2005.04.30 00:12:00 - [26] Quote: I think its funny that everyone of you does nothing but critize. Its like you dont know how to fix problems. Lets hear some alternate solution then. Or accept the fact that if the behavior continues, CCP will "carebearize" eve. Some people dont think this is a problem. Some think the lack of perfect safety anywhere is part of what makes eve special. Also note that if they wanted to the devs could fix this problem in any number of ways and do so at any time they please. They have not done so for 2 years now for a reason. ______________ Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye.
Dakath	Posted - 2005.04.30 00:49:00 - [27] A completely safe zone for noobs makes sense, as long as veterans (me included) can't make tons of isk there. I chopped Bunny into little pieces. \ ( )( X > ) ( .x ) / < _ Muahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Sic Transit Gloria Bunny!
Nafri	Posted - 2005.04.30 01:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Dakath A completely safe zone for noobs makes sense, as long as veterans (me included) can't make tons of isk there. its called noob corp Wanna fly with me?
Enemy	Posted - 2005.04.30 02:18:00 - [29] ok ladies and gentlemen let me add my 2 isk, since ive seen this topic about eleventy billion times. EVE is a game that has alot of things in common with real life, this makes the game very appealing to ppl. One of which, like in real life....stupidity is rewarded with bad things (some things worse then others)...and your responsible for your own life. For example, lets say you are setting in the woods with ten pounds of meat strapped to your neck and you see a bear approaching, if you donÆt remove yourself from that situation or not be in the situation in the first place like any half witted person would be capable of then im glad to see that you have left the gene pool. Likewise in EVE if you set in a belt in high sec and just assume that your gonna be fine then you deserve what your gonna get. Common now ppl, a kesse is a ship that has nothing but missile hardpoints...no mining capability what so ever. So if one jumps in and starts for your location you have to know something is up. Now lets say the worst happens and you get nailed, you should log that in your special little thing given to you by evolution called a memory. The best way to learn is by mistakes and if you get ganked more then one time then I have no pity for you what so ever. Its law enforments job to protect us in rl but we are not unkillable and it should be the same for EVE. Taking this type of thing from EVE would take away some of its reality, This is what attracted me to the game back in beta...unlike most other mmos I donÆt have to ask you to fight. Taking this away or making any pvp consensual would destroy some of the reality of the game. DonÆt change anything, learn how to play with it...to avoid it. adapt to your environment...or as someone adequately put it earlier, die. just my 2 isk...or maybe alittle more
F'nog	Posted - 2005.04.30 02:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Meridius This behaviour will continue and nothing will happen. Not enough people care. I'd say the sheer number of posts about the actions of a certain group says that people care. I don't think high sec should be made 100% safe, but if things continue CCP will implement some pretty big changes as they've done often enough before. To say they won't do anything is self-delusional. Look at all the changes that came about because of Zombie. Do pirates really want their profession made even more difficult than it already is? People have already quit because of this, and I'd expect it to continue. At some point, that'll make CCP take notice and pull out the nerf bat O doom. Then we'll see all the people doing this killing in here whining about how the "carebears" ruined their game. Some useful solution needs to be found before it's too late. If these people were real PvPers they'd actually fight against someone with a mounted weapon, instead of defenseless miners. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to.
Clydar Dramos	Posted - 2005.04.30 05:34:00 - [31] Edited by: Clydar Dramos on 30/04/2005 05:35:11 I'd like to see 1.0 ONLY made completely safe for new players. There's far from enough 1.0 systems to provide comfortable sanctuary for every noob and pacifist player in EVE for any length of time, but it would afford the newlyborn a limited area in which to get to grips with the mechanics. The remainder should stay as it is now and for all practical intents and purposes there would be no change to the game for anyone else. Also, in my opinion alts should go. Completely. If you want two characters, get two accounts. Want more? Get more accounts. Until alts are gone, griefing will never stop, simply because some people can only get their kicks by causing hardship or harm to others. That's just human nature. However, those same people are almost always gutless cowards who needs some way to hide their actions, so do away with the alts and you do away with 99% of them. That's the way I see it anyway. CD
ShadowDuke	Posted - 2005.04.30 06:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Face Lifter Originally by: ShadowDuke I think its funny that everyone of you does nothing but critize. Its like you dont know how to fix problems. Lets hear some alternate solution then. Or accept the fact that if the behavior continues, CCP will "carebearize" eve. I have offered good solutions many times, repeatedly, for months. It's kinda hard not to become a bit cynical when CCP ignores blatant problems. I mean, if they presented their case, it'd be okay, but when they just ignore stuff, you got posts like these. Useless and full of ****. Face lifter, I wasnt directing it specifically at you. But alot of PvPers seem to think this behavior is perfectably acceptable, and it isnt. As F'nog said, people are quiting because of the news of this, and even if they dont kill someone, that person may still quit. I thought about it myself, then I decided to make a post that was obviously way too far in one direction to get some discussion going, too bad it didnt seem to work. All I got initially was flames, and one guy from star fraction saying he wanted to kill me IRL. My real solution to the problem? Make it so that weapons wont fire at PCs in 1.0 or 0.9 space. Gives miners and noobs plenty of space to live in and not get ganked, and allows the retards to keep ganking in lower space then that. It also doesnt keep wars from happening in 1.0 either, just make it so that if you arnt at war with them, you cant shoot them in 1.0 or 0.9, that too me seems fair. But thats just MHO.
Roba	Posted - 2005.04.30 08:00:00 - [33] Edited by: Roba on 30/04/2005 08:00:43 Ok.... the carebear fool asked for a better solution. Here is the solution. Listen close. You know how that stupid rookie channel worked... where you couldn't close it for 1 month if you were a new character and account. Then the solution should be something like that. A new account (the first character on the account only) can't be attacked in 1.0 space for 2 weeks after joining. (crappy idea) OR!!!! even better. Has free 100% insurance to their ship thru their n00b corp for 2 weeks. That way death means nothing, no set backs, and the nub still learns lessons on death that will help him when those 2 weeks are up. CCP added the 40% base insurance to help nubs out, it means nothing to settled players cuz they can afford 100% and are smart enough to not fly uninsured. So just give the idiot frig flying nubs we all love free insurance for a week or so. They can't get the skills to fly a bs or anything in that time... so no screaming omg expoilt. (good idea) Yah also... that would leave the carebears afk mining with local expanders in 1.0 space open to gankage for being fools, while protecting new players.
ShadowDuke	Posted - 2005.04.30 09:36:00 - [34] Originally by: Roba Edited by: Roba on 30/04/2005 08:00:43 Ok.... the carebear fool asked for a better solution. Here is the solution. Listen close. Stopped reading there. You cant flame and be positive at the same time roba. Now try again with alittle less stupid.
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.04.30 10:07:00 - [35] Oh Look!! Trammell for EVE! -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
Pheonix Grey	Posted - 2005.04.30 10:16:00 - [36] The not locking idea wont work, heard of smartbombs? The Free Insurance for a week/2 weeks isn't a bad idea, cant really be exploited Not sure how to solve the alt problem though ah well --- Pheonix Grey, Signing Off --- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Galk	Posted - 2005.04.30 10:19:00 - [37] /Re Fix high sec ganking. Kick out shadowduke Well it's a start isn't it ------------------------ ---- Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.04.30 10:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Viceroy No thanks. Carebearizing the game to provide a safety net for the incompetant/lazy will turn EVE into a low class grind. Although I agree that alt-abuse is a problem, this is the most stupid solution I've come across. Nowhere is safe in EVE. Adapt and survive, or die. What happened to the sarcastic Viceroy? Anyway I agree if it wasn't for the alt abuse I wouldn't even look at this as a problem. If it weren't for alts the sec status penalty and loss of ship should be enough penalty. __________ Capacitor research
Cis Te'veren	Posted - 2005.04.30 11:22:00 - [39] I agree on what Viceroy said. No need to fix for total security. Instead nerf the alts! Take them away! One character per account! You know, that would make even more money for CCP, when those who need desperately more characters would've buy a new account. Great idea isn't it? I'm sure it said before. That would terminate me too! Yiaaah!
ebil yar	Posted - 2005.04.30 11:24:00 - [40] Originally by: Roba Wow and eve would become like all other MMOs. What makes eve have that feel of freedom and reality? Well... today if you walked outside and into... a public place and pulled out a gun... and well fired it at someones face at point blank... Well... police would probably gun you down, but not before you got off your first few shots. Is a person with the right permits and all that good stuff allowed to carry guns in public places? Yes. Well thats what eve high sec space is like. I can open up with my tachs on someone ****ing me off... I will get a few shots off... then I will be gun down with extreme ruthlessness by concord. Well that depends where you live now doesnt it.
George Petsch	Posted - 2005.04.30 11:26:00 - [41] hmm how about increasing the character recycle time? maybe make it dependent on the sec status the character has... just my 0.2Ç
Captain Rod	Posted - 2005.04.30 12:01:00 - [42] My take on this is that someone who spent loads of money on a barge bpo is unhappy with the returns... so has decided to increase demand by ganking unsuspecting miners in "safe" space. OK so its a little theory of mine anyhow. Nothing needs to be changed. People who fly barges should 1). Inusre 2). kit out with as many scout drones and 3). at least a small armour repairer, 4). train them hit point giving, shield and cap recharge skills. It should hold a kessie.... not sure about a caracal though. This may stop a kessie but probably not a caracal which I've heard being advertised on the recruitment channel. Frightening. If I ever get to train large onion bargey Im going to take all these precautions and some behavioural ones too. Tech II Paranoia 4tw!
Dukath	Posted - 2005.04.30 13:00:00 - [43] Originally by: George Petsch hmm how about increasing the character recycle time? maybe make it dependent on the sec status the character has... just my 0.2Ç There are 3 character slots. Simply link sec status to the character slot and not to the character itself. Destroy a character and create a new one? Too bad but that one starts with the sec rating the old one had. Mess up real bad? Well you still have 2 other slots you can use so its not a problem. This should really nerf the character mining for griefing purpose while not influencing anyone else.
Dakath	Posted - 2005.04.30 14:27:00 - [44] Originally by: George Petsch hmm how about increasing the character recycle time? maybe make it dependent on the sec status the character has... just my 0.2Ç BRILLIANT! You, sir, have the brain that I wish I had. The lower the sec, the longer it takes to recycle. For -0.1 about a month. For -10, a year. I chopped Bunny into little pieces. \ ( )( X > ) ( .x ) / < _ Muahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Sic Transit Gloria Bunny!
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2005.04.30 22:47:00 - [45] Originally by: Parallax Error Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Parallax Error The only fix for high sec ganking should be an intelligence test before you step into a Mining Barge. sush troll climb back up the pigs butt that spwned you... Congratulations for showing yourself up as an idiot. Anyone with half a braincell is well capable of using the multitude of options to avoid getting ganked in High sec in a mining barge. The only people getting killed are Lazy, Stupid or afk (and afk is possibly a combo of the previous 2). There are enough tools in this game to help avoid being ganked. Just because people don't want to use them doesn't mean there's a problem. Infact the only problem is alts. So I repeat, all it needs is an intelligence test so we don't have the truly incapable players going into mining barges in the first place. And even then, you can always use an Opsrey. So, Mr 'I'm blatantly too stupid to think my way out of a cardboard box', stfu and don't post one line accusations of trolling unless you have a clue. hush troll. back you go. little kiddie trolls should have thier mommy watch them when on the internet...
Mebbe	Posted - 2005.05.02 11:36:00 - [46] Edited by: Mebbe on 02/05/2005 11:36:37 The problem isn't that alts exist, it's that- as noted above- they are too easily recycled. Many people use alts as market or low-sec scouts (lame, immersion-breaking anti-RP rubbish, but bearable) etc. Removing these alts would be impossible. Even worse, there are people who have had trained characters transferred to their account. Now these are alts, sure, but they are certainly not likely to be deleted lightly. Why not simply keep the present system, ie- 3 characters per account, but only allow them to be deleted in the order they were created? That way, you can delete those 2 alts of yours, sure, but after 2 the next one you could delete would be your main... Maybe I'm living in a rose-coloured world, but I just can't see a down-side to this for anyone other than the people who abuse the current system.
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.05.02 12:17:00 - [47] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 02/05/2005 12:17:55 Originally by: ShadowDuke Edited by: ShadowDuke on 29/04/2005 20:29:40 Edited by: ShadowDuke on 29/04/2005 20:28:53 I propose this as a fix to high sec ganking. Since everyone is whining and not proposing solutions. Here is a solution. No PvP in 0.5 space and higher, unless it is a mutual war declaration. 0.4 and lower are kept as they are, but "high security" space is now considered safe. You just cannot fire weapons any anyone unless you are at war with them. Simple fix, and very effective. As much as I truly loath some of the idiot cowards that harass folks minding their own business in high security space, this is a bad idea. While my heart would sing at the agony of the griefers, in the end it would cause more damage than it fixed. Simply put, this fix is just too broad. I'm all in favor of things like 100,000m3 foldable secure mining cans. That would screw with ore thieves, but would ONLY screw with ore thieves. But something like you suggest is just too broad.
de Terre	Posted - 2005.05.02 12:41:00 - [48] The issue with throw-away alts can be solved by locking the character slot for two-three weeks after a character has been deleted. Delete a character, and you can't create a new character for that slot until the locking time has passed.
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.05.02 12:47:00 - [49] Locked for flaming and trolling. If you wiah to discuss this topic further I suggest you discuss it in the thread here Keep in mind that creating alts to kill people in empire and recycle the alts when their security status is too low, is concidered to be an exploit. I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.

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