There's more to it than just hoping that CCP agrees. It's about getting them to devote the resources to make those things happen. Just agreeing in the abstract won't help much.

Unless you're present at the Summit, hoping is about all you can do. Ball's in the CSM's court to try to sell CCP on not only adopting this vision, but acting on it.

Unless you're present at the Summit, hoping is about all you can do. Ball's in the CSM's court to try to sell CCP on not only adopting this vision, but acting on it.

That simply isn't even close to true. We have all seen what CCP will do when the playerbase is really fired up about something, it was called Crucible. If those ideas had even a quarter of the enthusiasm we saw 18 months ago, CCP would devote the resources to get it done.

Even without details posted, I have feedback for you already.

Read this and give it to CCP: http://themittani.com/features/addressing-tritanium-problem

These, as well.
http://themittani.com/features/vision-thing
http://themittani.com/features/creation-and-destruction
http://themittani.com/features/destroying-shipyards

Combined, they cover a lot of ground regarding the economy and industry in nullsec, and why it's important. They also talk a lot about the idea of "bottom up" income.

Bottom up income is simply, we want an alliance to be able to thrive and function on the basis of the actions of its membership, rather than on moon mining, or taxing renters. For that to be the case, people need to want to live in an alliance's space and do all their activities there. They should want to make their money, by ratting, or mining, or by PI, or what have you, and the alliance should be able to collect taxes on those activities; note that for an alliance to be able to do that, a tax must be obligatory. For mining, it's not; I address this in the "Addressing the Tritanium Problem" article.

When it comes to taxes on commerce, it should actually be worth doing commerce in nullsec. That means improving the production facilities in some way or another, covered most thoroughly in the "Destroying the Shipyards" article. It means ability to set and collect taxes on those facilities, which admittedly already exists; however, with the rock bottom taxes on production in highsec, there isn't much room to adjust things there (this is a symptom of highsec production fees being too low, though). An alliance should be able to set its market fees as well. Right now we collect the broker fee, but can't set it, and the sales tax is still a sink. Ideally, we'd be able to set and collect both, though simply being able to set and collect the broker fee would be sufficient.

Finally, moon mining. CCP has talked about Ring Mining, and a lot of us who are interested in the topic have a lot of fears about it. Ring mining comes across as a jesus feature, when on its own it will do little to address the problems that nullsec has. While we like the general idea of replacing moon mining with a bottom-up income source that we can tax (hopefully; on the surface it would have the same problems that regular mining does with taxation), we worry that developing a complete, brand new system like that will absorb all of CCP's limited development time, leaving the many other problems the area of space has untouched as a result.

More thoughts to come if I think of them.

Even without details posted, I have feedback for you already.

Read this and give it to CCP: http://themittani.com/features/addressing-tritanium-problem

These, as well.
http://themittani.com/features/vision-thing
http://themittani.com/features/creation-and-destruction
http://themittani.com/features/destroying-shipyards

Combined, they cover a lot of ground regarding the economy and industry in nullsec, and why it's important. They also talk a lot about the idea of "bottom up" income.

Bottom up income is simply, we want an alliance to be able to thrive and function on the basis of the actions of its membership, rather than on moon mining, or taxing renters. For that to be the case, people need to want to live in an alliance's space and do all their activities there. They should want to make their money, by ratting, or mining, or by PI, or what have you, and the alliance should be able to collect taxes on those activities; note that for an alliance to be able to do that, a tax must be obligatory. For mining, it's not; I address this in the "Addressing the Tritanium Problem" article.

When it comes to taxes on commerce, it should actually be worth doing commerce in nullsec. That means improving the production facilities in some way or another, covered most thoroughly in the "Destroying the Shipyards" article. It means ability to set and collect taxes on those facilities, which admittedly already exists; however, with the rock bottom taxes on production in highsec, there isn't much room to adjust things there (this is a symptom of highsec production fees being too low, though). An alliance should be able to set its market fees as well. Right now we collect the broker fee, but can't set it, and the sales tax is still a sink. Ideally, we'd be able to set and collect both, though simply being able to set and collect the broker fee would be sufficient.

Finally, moon mining. CCP has talked about Ring Mining, and a lot of us who are interested in the topic have a lot of fears about it. Ring mining comes across as a jesus feature, when on its own it will do little to address the problems that nullsec has. While we like the general idea of replacing moon mining with a bottom-up income source that we can tax (hopefully; on the surface it would have the same problems that regular mining does with taxation), we worry that developing a complete, brand new system like that will absorb all of CCP's limited development time, leaving the many other problems the area of space has untouched as a result.

More thoughts to come if I think of them.

Did I miss the part where having massive amounts of Hi-sec minerals would not collapse the Hi-sec markets, and once again make mining a waste of time for everyone but Null residences?

Find myself agreeing with a goonie (apart from the ring mining concern). Well that's a first.

Z3

If a hisec mining being a "waste of time" is the result of low prices, such as those found before they nuked the alloys out of the drone regions, then highsec mining has been a "waste of time" for most of the game's history, pretty much all of it except for the past six months. Nevertheless, people mined. Quite a lot of people mined, in fact. And, those same drone alloys produced an enormous amount of lowends. That didn't crush highsec mineral prices, neither would nullsec being able to provide for themselves locally.

Basically, your point is invalid.

That simply isn't even close to true. We have all seen what CCP will do when the playerbase is really fired up about something, it was called Crucible. If those ideas had even a quarter of the enthusiasm we saw 18 months ago, CCP would devote the resources to get it done.

Then how can we prove to CCP that lots of players really like these ideas ?

Yup, I have read all of those, and commented on a few of them. Those are pretty much the direction just about all of us want to take nullsec.

It is such a complex issue, I feel it will take several patches to address it all. But some of changes are so basic, they could easily be incorporated into point patches. (Null Market Fees for example) Maybe they can start sliding some of those changes in now while the debate happens.

I want to make one comment regarding this topic from the view point of a small alliance player looking at the inaccessibility of nullsec to the small group.

Fencing off areas of nullsec is something I think will have to be done to encourage small groups to expand into null. Having some kind of home system that can't be flooded with hostile supers, caps and fleets is just about the only way to let people try their hand at building a sandcastle that doesn't get automatically trampled by the sandbox gangs. The added safety of a home system would need to be compensated with lower resources. There are many ways to design such a system, but I think until there is a way for small groups to experience nullsec at a slower pace the population will never significantly shift out of high sec. The power curve is just too much in favor of the groups/players with years of experience and overwhelming numbers to make nullsec appealing to the general player base.

Remember... Nullsec needs more small gang activities...

Always Promote flying in space activities.

Also promote small-gang oriented targets. While ships in space are always a good target, include other targets / objectives / mechanics centered around small gangs. There needs to be a middle-ground objective between killing a ratter and killing a POS.

Things like:

A mining deflector - A device you anchor near a moon mining operation to steal some of the harvested moongoo...

Player Created Incursion Events - A device that inhibits PvE activities in a system by imparting incursion-like penalties to NPC bounties, Ship resistances, etc....

That simply isn't even close to true. We have all seen what CCP will do when the playerbase is really fired up about something, it was called Crucible. If those ideas had even a quarter of the enthusiasm we saw 18 months ago, CCP would devote the resources to get it done.

Both of those sound like interesting ideas although I do feel obliged to point out that depending on who's space you drop these in, the reaction to them will be anything but "small gang". That is, the fact that they are both designed to be easy to destroy by a small gang from the owners of the space being invaded does not mean they're any under obligation to actually bring that small gang.

The first key element to keeping things small gang is a limited window for response. If you give someone 24 hours to respond, they will bring everyone under the sun. If you give them a limited engagement window (10 min), they have to come quick or miss out. If they have 50 pilots at the ready to respond quickly... more power to them...

In truth, we WANT these situations to escalate from small gang to bigger gang to biggest gang. That's healthy and fun....