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Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.05 23:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
1> You know we have warp technology right? The shells could easily be been propelled very slowly and the energy is used to fire is been used to create the warp tunnel, not to accelerate the shell.
2> The bore of the guns is referring to gun bore not to shell size. Only in the case of projectiles would they be the same.
3> I was under the impression that with rails/hybrids, each only used half the shell as an actual projectile, the other half was used as power/propulsion depending on the type.
4> We currently have several forms of storage (capacitors in particular) which can store FAR more power than batteries can, the main problem been that it instantly drops 100% of it's energy, you can't let it out slowly like in a battery. So perfect for ammo, practically useless for any other purpose. Super-conducting loops would have similar properties and be capable of storing near infinite amounts of energy.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
70
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Posted - 2011.10.05 23:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Confirming that this thread is nerd-tastically awesome. :) |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
1
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Posted - 2011.10.06 01:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Summary Additional Fun Numbers: * The speed of light in a vacuum is 299,792,458 m/s. (3 million m/s). .
Thats pretty goddam funny. How exactly did you lose the two orders of magnitude? Not really any point looking at the rest of your "maths" after that one is there. More importantly why did all the other wannabe scientists in the thread not notice it. For those who still don't see it the speed of light is a shade under 300 million m/s, not 3 million m/s.
Probably the most famous and important number in science and you got it wrong in a "look at me" post. |

Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
152
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Posted - 2011.10.06 01:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Actually... i agree with Meridith.
lol [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |

stoicfaux
271
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Posted - 2011.10.06 01:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Doddy wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Summary Additional Fun Numbers: * The speed of light in a vacuum is 299,792,458 m/s. (3 million m/s). . Thats pretty goddam funny. How exactly did you lose the two orders of magnitude? Not really any point looking at the rest of your "maths" after that one is there. More importantly why did all the other wannabe scientists in the thread not notice it. For those who still don't see it the speed of light is a shade under 300 million m/s, not 3 million m/s. Probably the most famous and important number in science and you got it wrong in a "look at me" post.
Ugh yeah, what's a couple orders of magnitudes between friends? Fortunately, that was an incidental "factoid" and not relevant to the numbers supporting the projectile size. The speed of light wasn't used/required to perform the projectile mass calculations.
I've removed it from the original post to avoid confusion and further embarrassment. 
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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stoicfaux
271
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Posted - 2011.10.06 01:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jiska Ensa wrote:It all seems to depend on the flight time. We don't know that information and we can't simply assume it's 0.1 seconds or whatever. Heck, if we even assumed it was 4.whatever seconds (the cycle time) that significantly increases the mass of the round.
Actually there might be a way. The LogServer records time down to milliseconds. I'll have to find my Rokh and test the timing.
Rhinanna wrote:1> You know we have warp technology right? The shells could easily be been propelled very slowly and the energy is used to fire is been used to create the warp tunnel, not to accelerate the shell. The warp tunnel theory is my preferred theory. However, in the Xenocracy chronicles, it describes railgun rounds as being accelerated by gravity. I wouldn't think that anything traveling via Eve micro-warp tunnel would be affected by gravitational acceleration.
Quote:3> I was under the impression that with rails/hybrids, each only used half the shell as an actual projectile, the other half was used as power/propulsion depending on the type.
4> ...Super-conducting loops would have similar properties and be capable of storing near infinite amounts of energy. Judging from the size of a Cap Booster 25 charge, that's not likely. See a few posts up.
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 17:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Quote:t describes railgun rounds as being accelerated by gravity. I wouldn't think that anything traveling via Eve micro-warp tunnel would be affected by gravitational acceleration
Of course it would, put a stationary object in a warp field and it still doesn't move. You still have to accelerate it first.
Quote:Judging from the size of a Cap Booster 25 charge, that's not likely. See a few posts up.
Read again, about the usages possible from this form of storage and the limitation. It wouldn't work for cap boosters, only for weapons, or devices with immediately use all of the power they need. |

Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
21
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Posted - 2011.10.06 18:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
So, you're saying... nerf rails? |

Alxea
U-208 Bacon Fortress Gaming Syndicate
31
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Posted - 2011.10.06 18:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cow launchers do 9000 DPS with over 9000 alpha. |

Vicker Lahn'se
STRAG3S THE UNTHINKABLES
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 22:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:I agree that 0.1 seconds was arbitrary. However, the numbers go beyond silly if you assume shorter time units or even instant hits.
A more massive projectile results in a longer travel time, not the other way around.
E = 1/2 * m * v^2
v = x/t -> E = 1/2 * m * x^2 / t^2
If you decrease v, you increase m. The mass, as calculated by your method, depends on the square of the transit time. Increasing the transit time to 1 second rather than 0.1 second would increase your mass by two orders of magnitude. Your 0.0012kg becomes 0.12kg. That's a pretty substantial change.
Quote: If you used a fission/fusion device to propel the round, then it would no longer be a railgun.
Railgun ammo containing a power source plus the warhead would make sense, if it was described anywhere in Eve, game-wise or in the fiction. There's also another big problem with the idea:
Let's extrapolate by looking at a Cap Booster 25. A Cap Booster 25 provides 25 GJ of energy with 3kg of mass in 1m^3 volume. Unfortunately, the volume of a large railgun round is merely 0.05m^3. Thus it's not far fetched to assume that Eve technology cannot create a large hybrid round that provides a significant amount of additional energy to power the shot.
First, a round can be accelerated with a two stage process. A chemical explosion gets the projectile moving and then a magnetic linear accelerator further accelerates the projectile. Such a mechanism would still be referred to as a type of railgun. In fact, a more descriptive name would be a "hybrid" weapon.
Second, one could argue that cap booster charges are massive because they're designed to release their energy in a form that can be used by your ship's capacitor. Perhaps it's possible to pack energy into a less massive form, but that form would have to be used immediately (to fire a projectile) rather than being stored.
Quote: It would matter if your teeny tiny itsy bitsy shell hits a whipple shield.
Whipple shields are designed to break apart micrometeors. The design is based on the fact that micrometeors consist of rock that breaks apart upon striking a solid surface. It would not stop a 0.12kg column of lead plasma traveling at 2.5*10^6 km/s. A column of lead plasma would not "break apart" as a micrometeor would. Whipple shields are not a form of military defense, otherwise modern armored vehicles would be equipped with Whipple shields.
Quote: Other considerations: * what prevents the "lead plasma" from smashing against the titanium case during acceleration? * why would a railgun not have solid projectiles? * why does Lead ammo require less power than an anti-matter round? * why does the ammo type have such a drastic effect on range? * why use anything but anti-matter? * why can we fire through solid objects? * why are weapon ranges so short? * seriously, a shell full of lead plasma?
*An opening in the titanium case. A door? *No solid projectiles because, as you stated yourself, the projectile must be light in order to reach the speeds you described. *Because anti-matter is harder to produce than lead. *Ammo affects range because different types of plasmas diffuse at different rates. *You use other types of ammo because the other types have different properties. *When are you firing through solid objects? *Short compared to what? Have you ever used a hybrid weapon in real life? *With all the fancy technology in Eve, you think containment of a superheated ionized gas would be a problem? For that matter, the shell could just as well contain solid lead that gets vaporized in the process of being fired.
What do any of your "other considerations" have to do with the claim that the projectiles in question have a mass less than a fart? It seems like you're trying to change the subject because you can't defend your original assertion.
Quote:No dear, it's called playing with numbers. Some people enjoy analyzing the pseudo-science behind sci-fiction games to see just how far off it is.
Watching you "play with numbers" is like listening to a child trying to learn the violin. Your argument takes the liberty of making many assumptions. As I pointed out above, one of your assumptions can change the end result by two orders of magnitude, or more depending on which way you want to modify the assumption. You have no idea how a hybrid turret works, beyond the fact that at some point a magnetic accelerator is used. There's a huge range of mechanisms that would fit under that umbrella, ranging from little monkeys turning cranks to ripping holes in space-time with a space-time-hole-ripper.
To make a long story short, the description in the "show info" tab of a futuristic weapon in Eve is insufficient to mathematically model specific aspects of that weapons system. There are too many unknowns. |

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
112
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Posted - 2011.10.06 23:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
TL:DR?
Boost Hybrids? Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |

Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
3
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Posted - 2011.10.07 00:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
farts can be pretty debilitating man
I once farted and the carrier pilot next to me fainted |

Veronica Kerrigan
Hand Of Midas F0RCEFUL ENTRY
1
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Posted - 2011.10.07 03:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
I agree that it is very likely for the shell to have a power generation of some sort. Also, it would be the most accurate, in my opinion, to use the base energy consumption, without skills, as the cap efficiency would come from being able to use the fluxuating magnetic fields of your ship to get the power, rather than your capacitor. |

Khiijan Araal
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 19:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Veronica Kerrigan wrote:I agree that it is very likely for the shell to have a power generation of some sort. Also, it would be the most accurate, in my opinion, to use the base energy consumption, without skills, as the cap efficiency would come from being able to use the fluxuating magnetic fields of your ship to get the power, rather than your capacitor.
What the hell are you talking about? |

Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8
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Posted - 2011.10.07 20:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
0ld School wrote:Pointless. Its a made up game about made-up spaceships using made-up technologies.
Further attempts to use maths/real logic will be met with contradicting quotes from a made-up wiki.
That is, hands down, the best reply to this type of thread I have ever read.
A hearty +1 Internets to you good sir, for your well written and concise reply.
The best posters will be quoting this in the future. |
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