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Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 1610	Posted - 2012.11.30 13:13:00 - [1] - Quote Following on from the recently announced changes to the Blockade runner having an unscannable cargo bay, I propose that the Deep Space versions be slightly altered so that they arent a permanent second choice in the Transport ship lineup given that their inability to cloak is a major reason to opt for Blockade Runners instead. I propose that, in line with its 'Deep Space' tag, to be better able to traverse the space of nulsec and W-space (i.e. the true depths of space in EVE), they be given the role bonus ' Immunity to non-targeted interdiction ' which, for the uninitiated, means bubbles dont affect them. You could argue that with this change they shouldnt also have the +2 to warp strength, thats open to opinion and i'm not completely sure which i'd prefer. /discuss TK is recruiting
Hakan MacTrew Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted 38	Posted - 2012.11.30 15:53:00 - [2] - Quote I haven't used any of the transport ships as yet, though I'm not far off. I also have had limited experience with bubbles. I would have thought the +2 warp.strength would have allowed you to pass through a couple of stacked bubbles. Is that incorrect? MODULAR DRONES MORE ORE SHIPS
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 1615	Posted - 2012.11.30 16:20:00 - [3] - Quote you cannot activate warp within a bubble unless you have 'immunity to non-targeted interdiction' Currently, that means only specifically fit T3 ships TK is recruiting
Hakan MacTrew Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted 38	Posted - 2012.11.30 16:28:00 - [4] - Quote Thanks for clarifying that. MODULAR DRONES MORE ORE SHIPS
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels 767	Posted - 2012.11.30 16:38:00 - [5] - Quote Skippermonkey wrote: you cannot activate warp within a bubble unless you have 'immunity to non-targeted interdiction' Currently, that means only specifically fit T3 ships It really sounds like the deep space variant was intended to be unstoppable without an overkill of effort. Of course, back then a bubble was an absolute that noone could bypass. Question is, does the T3 nullified version justify changing this transport to match it? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 71	Posted - 2012.11.30 18:09:00 - [6] - Quote I think just having better EHP would help the DSTs be better off, though having that immunity to non-targeted warp disruption is another positive step that high-sec pirates won't care for. I've envisioned DSTs as being able to take two tornado broadsides like a house takes to 100 mph winds: shakes a bit but it's still there. Now, giving DSTs both the immunity and lots of EHP may sound over-powered, but remember that blockade runners won't be able to be scanned down soon (though I think that should be a special hold instead of the cargo hold) Where the science gets done
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10743	Posted - 2012.11.30 18:30:00 - [7] - Quote I kinda see where you're coming from, with this idea. Although I'm still undecided on whether I like it or not. I do find the BR change rather odd though and feel it would have been a far better bonus for the DST instead. After all, the cloak on the BR was it's tank and it's scan immunity. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Syzygium Friends Of Harassment 11	Posted - 2012.11.30 18:47:00 - [8] - Quote The bad thing about DeepSpace Haulers is, that their costs are in no way worth the benefits they have, compared with their Tech I counterparts. An Iteron V can pack more cargo, aligns twice as fast and the lower EHP do not really matter because if someone catches you, your are dead in both ships, you just "die longer" in the DeadspaceHauler. Like 10 Seconds longer... I would suggest: - Role Bonus: Bubble Immunity and +1 WarpCoreStrength per Level of TransportShips, so you need either a Gang with 5+ Points or a HIC to stop them (or you have the skill and bump them out of aligment while killing them with just 2 ships) - give them like 20% more Cargo compared to the T1 Haulers - give them the Slots, PG and CPU to fit at least Cruisersize Defense Modules (800er Plates, Med Reppers, LSEs etc..) - increase Mobility slightly, at the moment they move like a triple-plated Abaddon.
De'Veldrin East India Ore Trade 501	Posted - 2012.11.30 18:55:00 - [9] - Quote I like the idea of the non-targeted interdiction bonus, but I think the warp core bonus they already have combined with that is probably too powerful, in my opinion. On the other hand, they're both aimed at countering different obstacles. And I can't tell you how many times that warp core bonus has saved my mastodon because some solo dude thought it was a mammoth. Bumping, leave it alone.
Alundil Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn 179	Posted - 2012.11.30 19:20:00 - [10] - Quote Skippermonkey wrote: Following on from the recently announced changes to the Blockade runner having an unscannable cargo bay, I propose that the Deep Space versions be slightly altered so that they arent a permanent second choice in the Transport ship lineup given that their inability to cloak is a major reason to opt for Blockade Runners instead. I propose that, in line with its 'Deep Space' tag, to be better able to traverse the space of nulsec and W-space (i.e. the true depths of space in EVE), they be given the role bonus ' Immunity to non-targeted interdiction ' which, for the uninitiated, means bubbles dont affect them. You could argue that with this change they shouldnt also have the +2 to warp strength, thats open to opinion and i'm not completely sure which i'd prefer. /discuss An interesting idea. I like that the Transport ships are being given a true role where the capabilities of the hulls will provide benefit. Meaning that since Orcas are no longer the "bling hauler" of first (rational) choice due to the cargo scanning and hangar loot changes it stands to reason that another hull type picks up some of the slack. Personally, I always wondered why the Deep Space transports lacked the ability to warp cloaked. That lack has always relegated them, in my mind, to 2nd or 3rd choice at best. If I am flying something so valuable that I need cloaky transit then I make as many blockade runner trips as necessary to reduce the risk. I think boosting the Deep Space transports with bubble immunity (and keeping the +2 warp strength) would see them used a bit more frequently and would offer a fair trade between larger cargo hold + inability to warp cloaked. You want to catch them and the juicy loot....you need more than a drag bubble and a lone dictor/hictor camping it.
Dark Long solo and loveing it 0	Posted - 2012.12.01 00:11:00 - [11] - Quote Syzygium wrote: The bad thing about DeepSpace Haulers is, that their costs are in no way worth the benefits they have, compared with their Tech I counterparts. An Iteron V can pack more cargo, aligns twice as fast and the lower EHP do not really matter because if someone catches you, your are dead in both ships, you just "die longer" in the DeadspaceHauler. Like 10 Seconds longer... I would suggest: - Role Bonus: Bubble Immunity and +1 WarpCoreStrength per Level of TransportShips, so you need either a Gang with 5+ Points or a HIC to stop them (or you have the skill and bump them out of aligment while killing them with just 2 ships) - give them like 20% more Cargo compared to the T1 Haulers - give them the Slots, PG and CPU to fit at least Cruisersize Defense Modules (800er Plates, Med Reppers, LSEs etc..) - increase Mobility slightly, at the moment they move like a triple-plated Abaddon. have your tryed the t2 cloak with mwd trick they align really fast doing that faster then a iteron mk 5 and i can carry allmost 38k cargo.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 814	Posted - 2012.12.01 00:40:00 - [12] - Quote Syzygium wrote: The bad thing about DeepSpace Haulers is, that their costs are in no way worth the benefits they have, compared with their Tech I counterparts. An Iteron V can pack more cargo, aligns twice as fast and the lower EHP do not really matter because if someone catches you, your are dead in both ships, you just "die longer" in the DeadspaceHauler. Like 10 Seconds longer... I would suggest: - Role Bonus: Bubble Immunity and +1 WarpCoreStrength per Level of TransportShips, so you need either a Gang with 5+ Points or a HIC to stop them (or you have the skill and bump them out of aligment while killing them with just 2 ships) - give them like 20% more Cargo compared to the T1 Haulers - give them the Slots, PG and CPU to fit at least Cruisersize Defense Modules (800er Plates, Med Reppers, LSEs etc..) - increase Mobility slightly, at the moment they move like a triple-plated Abaddon. Just a note, you can already fit 800 plates onto occators. It handles like a sack of bricks afterwards, but it fits on.
Bobo Cindekela Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2012.12.01 02:08:00 - [13] - Quote another note, the deep space transports align too slowly and uses way too much cap to really be useful your better off using a viator/JF/or rorqual for whatever it is you need moved, deepspace transports are pretty pathetic You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,-á this is your final warning.
Syzygium Friends Of Harassment 13	Posted - 2012.12.01 02:28:00 - [14] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Just a note, you can already fit 800 plates onto occators. It handles like a sack of bricks afterwards, but it fits on. I know that it is possible, but the fitting is not really useful afterwards. You are even better off with 2 400er Plates T2 and you end with a fitting that makes any Battleship feeling like an Interceptor. That you can move at all is a little wonder. I also know that you can get such bricks to warp quite safely with the cloak/mwd trick. However I consider this "trick" an exploit that should have been fixed for years. It is beyound my understanding why CCP tolerates such a workaround to use ships in a way they are not designed for (uninterruptable warping, except for bubbles or an decloak-interceptor). That is not even a "trick" that requires skill, its cheap klick-klick-klick in the right order and zoom, no one can lock you, no one can stop you. Its just stupid because the aligntime of any ship is basically "cut" at 10seconds, making many penalties of plates or rigs void. And these penalties are there for a reason. It makes sense that a BS with 2x1600mm Plates alignes slower than a BC with just one. The MWD-Instawarp removes these differences because both ships just warp in 10 seconds. Bad mechanic. Because of that, I do not count that Cloak/MWD "trick" as valid argument against the irrational bad agility of the DeepSpaceHaulers. That there is an existing workaround should be no reason not to fix the bad balance. Imho.
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 1623	Posted - 2012.12.03 10:48:00 - [15] - Quote Bobo Cindekela wrote: another note, the deep space transports align too slowly and uses way too much cap to really be useful your better off using a viator/JF/or rorqual for whatever it is you need moved, deepspace transports are pretty pathetic Which is kinda the point of the thread. The ship needs something unique of its own to make it a viable alternative to the Blockade Runner TK is recruiting
Dave stark Black Nova Corp. R O G U E 715	Posted - 2012.12.03 11:48:00 - [16] - Quote if i understand the op correctly; you want DSTs to be like the nullified t3s? yeah, i'll go with that. it'd give them a use, or at least their own kind of niche. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Vayn Baxtor Community for Justice Paradox Trust 3	Posted - 2012.12.03 12:22:00 - [17] - Quote Gonna tag this thread for later. Will be important when the tiericide event horizon hits the T2 Industrial lines.
Marcio Miranda Vera Cruz. Nulli Secunda 0	Posted - 2012.12.09 22:35:00 - [18] - Quote Why give the Blockade Runners imunity to cargo scanners if you can just avoid being targeted at all? I think this imunity useless on the Blockade Runners (unless you're auto-piloting in hisec) and would make much more sense on the Deep Space Tranports. Specialy considering these changes were made to compensate for the loss of scan imunity of corp hangars in the Orca. A Blockade Runner not only does't need scan imunity to it's cargo, but also it's cargohold is far from the Orca's corp hangar. Even the Deep Space Tranports can't have the same space but it's way closer, and they would finaly be usefull, at least in hisec. About Deep Space Tranports imunity to bubbles, I aprove. Make them also interesting to use in nullsec.

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