Jumped into about 5. Died three times, won twice. Adapting.

it has nothing to do with tactics or counter tactics. What happened that something was changed what was perfectly working. Its now more boring as it was in past. You enter the plex and you know exactly what will happen. Jumping through a gate is more exciting as entering a plex since you are at least at a random point in 15k range around that gate when you decloak.

whats wrong with approaching each other in a fight?

well that's working as anticipated. lmk how you eventually adapt, assuming you just don't jump in. would like to know.

only difference now is that if someone is not paying attention while plex'ing then he is more likely to get caught.....tbh i think this may still be a legacy of the gunless farmer alt season after inferno was released. In reality I don't see it changing the actual plex fights that i have had much at all.

just read my comment a few pages before. Thats exactly what i said. The change would have been an excellent quick-fix a few weeks after inferno shipped but serves now 0 purpose since the problem does not exist anymore.

well, i haven't lost as the guy starting in a plex yet.

they jump in, and oddly, they're always right where i want them.

So what has changed from before then?

i've lost only 1x as a defender. i had a jaguar into half armor with my hookbill, when ~5 others jumped in to help.

that new camera angle is fascinating /o\

If they had actually made it so that new rat spawns every 2-3 minutes, we probably would not see so many afk plexers these days. And if somebody complains about NPC's deterring pvp now....sorry guys but new NPC's are about as much of an effort as police station full of cops is for Arnie and even if plex had 5-6 of them, I dont see it affecting pvp much at all.

Previously we could easily hold the wt progress at bay. The mechanics made defending faster than attacking and needing proper boats also put attackers at risk for pirates due to no-docking, etc.

Now it's total farmville and it does not matter if we kill enemy at ratio of 10:1. Farmers will determine the outcome again and we know which side will get 99% of the farmers due to better payout. And it's exactly what CCP and Gallente want to happen. Screw the vibrant pvp possibilities, isk will be handed to their favourite militias.

Previously wt's could put system up 10% or so during our "sleep/work hours", despite having 23/7 link alts sitting on POS with public advert "Plex this system, nao!". Now we must consider ourselves lucky if they dont put it up 30% during the same time thanks to fact everyone and their dog can again farm plexes in t1 frigates.

And before you say "get your own farmers", if other side gets 75% isk from same activity, how would we achieve this feat? If you can answer it, perhaps you can also solve Israel-Palestine conflict. Should be walk in the park compared to that one.

I always used to assume that the person in plex was right on the button so the fits i use to enter a plex haven't necessarilly changed. (they changed due to the changes in ships)

But when i was in the plex orbitting the button and I saw several people coming I used stay on the button, align to something away from warp in, and maybe get a fight if they didn't all come at once. Now I have to warp off if I see more than one on short scan because if they come, I know they are all going to jump right on top of me.


So for me its not a matter of win or lose more its a matter of getting fewer good fights.

I have jumped onto other people fighting and turned those fights into ganks. So yay more killmails, but I do prefer the old system were we had more good fights.

I always used to assume that the person in plex was right on the button so the fits i use to enter a plex haven't necessarilly changed. (they changed due to the changes in ships)

But when i was in the plex orbitting the button and I saw several people coming I used stay on the button, align to something away from warp in, and maybe get a fight if they didn't all come at once. Now I have to warp off if I see more than one on short scan because if they come, I know they are all going to jump right on top of me.


So for me its not a matter of win or lose more its a matter of getting fewer good fights.

I have jumped onto other people fighting and turned those fights into ganks. So yay more killmails, but I do prefer the old system were we had more good fights.

I really don't get the ''button changes are a nerf to kiting/fighting outnumbered'' argument....

Brawlers win 99.99% of the time against LR hulls if they get to dictate range, with me so far?

B) Because X Gallentius and Gallente wanted it so

Kiters win 99.99% of the time against Brawlers if they get to dictate range, with me so far?

It don't matter much. FW is ****** again and will be dead soon enough with little going on as Caldari scale down and allow the Gal's to take every system.

. Excuse me but where in seven hells?

the caldari still have the numbers when they want.....

Looks like your numbers are swelling with even more terribad people now that SLAPDO is back and I have to permablock Gunnyt31 as well.

SOTF deployed plexing power to Essence now.

I'm having 2nd thoughts about the warp-in change, where the plex button will be moved to 10km off the warp-in point, and would like help reconciling them. Moving it closer because people are too lazy to burn out 80km obviously isn't a good reason to change it, and after some thought I don't believe it will increase PVP either: Here's how i see it:

As it stands now, you've got a better than even shot that someone in the plex is not on the warp-in. Especially if they are offensive plexing. Even defensive plexers are often orbiting the plex button. It's much less likely they are sitting @ the entrance beacon (sitting @ zero). The new change allows a player to sit both on the plex button and @ zero. So the odds indicating where they will be located within the plex be have also changed.

Consider the following bit of game theory, where you warp to the plex gate and scan someone inside.


You are in a brawler: there are a 2 scenarios:
He is @ zero. Assuming roughly equal frigs and skills, you have a 50% shot at winning. (unless he's in a DD, no one would be stupid enough to warp into a DD sitting @ zero).

Or he's ranged, in which case you'll probably either lose, or have to warp out. Given the above 2 scenarios, if you warped in 100 times, I'd expect you to win about 35 of them (and that's generous). That's a meager 35% chance of winning.


You are range fit: there are a 2 scenarios:
He is @ zero. Assuming roughly equal frigs and skills, you will likely get wtfpwnzoredbbqstlye (especially if he's in a DD, and you're stupid enough to warp into a DD sitting @ zero). Let's call that a 10% chance of winning.

Or he's ranged. Assuming roughly equal frigs and skills, let's give you a even chance at winning. 50%. If you warped in 100 times given these last 2 scenarios, I'd expect you to win about 30 times. 30% chance of winning.


Hmmm... it's a choice between a 35% chance of winning and a 30% chance of winning. The player in the plex has too much of an informational advantage. He knows how he is fit, and will always be able to engage at his range. This advantage amounts to the "House edge". A "House edge" doesn't increase gambling, it serves to cull the population to those that are either addicted, or can afford to lose, and eventually burns everyone.

Therefore, I don't believe moving the plex button closer will increase PVP, rather I predict it will decrease PVP. Warping into an occupant is now a sucker's bet, relegated to those that aren't educated enough, yet, to know not to do it.

Based on that I would argue the plex beacon should have been moved a bit further out, left as-is, or somehow made so that a player outside on the gate may scan in to determine how far off the warp-in the occupant is.

Now, never let it be said I can't be sold the right idea. Am I thinking about this all wrong? I don't see me warping into defend or attack occupied plexes with the proposed change. Any smart player would be wise to avoid them as well. Far too little upside as I see it. Especially if there's a DD in that "novice" plex (lol of the week), they seem pretty much immune to threats unless its unfair numbers.