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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
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CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
1143
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Posted - 2012.12.18 15:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, just dropping by to explain (as I did when Kane poked me on Twitter) that it's the start of the holiday season so a lot of developers are away or wrapping things up before they go away. Sorry that this isn't very satisfying (I can't really comment on the decision myself as I am not a designer and just got back from a long vacation myself so still getting up to speed) but I am sure someone will pick this up when they return in the New Year.
EDIT: By the way I appreciate that this thread has been going on since the 30th Nov. I don't have an answer for why it hasn't been picked up before, so let's just look forward to it getting addressed as soon as we are able to.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
1143
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Posted - 2012.12.18 15:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Hey guys, just dropping by to explain (as I did when Kane poked me on Twitter) that it's the start of the holiday season so a lot of developers are away or wrapping things up before they go away. Sorry that this isn't very satisfying (I can't really comment on the decision myself as I am not a designer and just got back from a long vacation myself so still getting up to speed) but I am sure someone will pick this up when they return in the New Year.
EDIT: By the way I appreciate that this thread has been going on since the 30th Nov. I don't have an answer for why it hasn't been picked up before, so let's just look forward to it getting addressed as soon as we are able to. Thank you for saying something. We were getting close to going full Yarr from frustration over feeling fully ignored. Thread is here to stay.
Yup, I have it bookmarked, it'll get forwarded to relevant folk when they reappear.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
1020
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Posted - 2012.12.18 16:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Damn, Goliath beat me to saying everything he said.
Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
1145
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Posted - 2012.12.18 16:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
fukier wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Sugar Kyle wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Hey guys, just dropping by to explain (as I did when Kane poked me on Twitter) that it's the start of the holiday season so a lot of developers are away or wrapping things up before they go away. Sorry that this isn't very satisfying (I can't really comment on the decision myself as I am not a designer and just got back from a long vacation myself so still getting up to speed) but I am sure someone will pick this up when they return in the New Year.
EDIT: By the way I appreciate that this thread has been going on since the 30th Nov. I don't have an answer for why it hasn't been picked up before, so let's just look forward to it getting addressed as soon as we are able to. Thank you for saying something. We were getting close to going full Yarr from frustration over feeling fully ignored. Thread is here to stay. Yup, I have it bookmarked, it'll get forwarded to relevant folk when they reappear. Glad to see you back from vacation... Hope it was a good one...
It was wonderful! Thanks so much 
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
1167
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Posted - 2012.12.26 23:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:Christmas is over, back to post tending. We are still here and still waiting. :)
And we're still on holiday! Don't worry I haven't forgotten :)
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
1332
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Posted - 2013.01.03 09:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokings have occurred.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
2959
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Posted - 2013.01.07 10:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sorry for the delayed reply folks. CCP Bettik is the man with the plan on pve complexes and he was gone on vacation then came down sick. The rest of us on the team had a good idea of the thought process here and had a chance to go over a bit of it with the CSM before the holidays but we wanted to wait until we went over it thoroughly with Bettik before making the public post.
The good news is that I've now had a chance to touch base with Bettik and go over the situation.
Back in the day when most of the DED complexes were moved from static spawns to the exploration system, the 1/10 and 2/10 plexes were left static because it was thought that leaving them accessible for people who had not yet learned how to probe would benefit new players. A happy side effect of that decision (that most of you are very familiar with) was that the lowsec plexes became geographical landmarks that give people a location to fight over to a certain extent.
However during this last release we went over some of the available data to look at how the 1/10 and 2/10 plexes were serving their various purposes. Our metrics made clear that they were not living up to their primary purpose as interesting pve content, with the majority of the completions performed by the same small group of experienced players, some of which were clearly farming the content. The decision was made that special casing these plexes from the rest of the DED system was no longer worth it, and that the content would serve its primary purpose much better and to a much wider variety of people as exploration content.
This of course meant losing some of the interesting and positive gameplay associated with the 1/10 and 2/10 plexes, just as the old removal of the 6/10, 8/10 and 10/10 statics removed interesting gameplay in its time. However with hindsight it's fairly clear to us that the benefits of the old static plex removal outweighed the harm, with the content being run by many more people than could ever use the old farmable statics. The benefits of this change will be wider access to the pve content provided by these plexes and hopefully more people exploring lowsec as a whole (although less concentrated than previously). The downsides of course are a reduction in the number of geographical features that make some systems unique, as well as the easily seen focal point for players in space. We feel that as a whole this change will be a net positive, although I completely understand that it may not seem the case to those people who strongly benefited from the previous mechanic.
One idea that came up from the CSM discussion that I would like your opinions on (no promises at this stage):
What would you guys think about the plexes being reintroduced with the same size restrictions but without the NPCs (or without the NPCs in the final room) as a simple location for size restricted pvp decoupled from the DED loot?
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
2959
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Posted - 2013.01.07 11:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mary Clarissa Titor wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:One idea that came up from the CSM discussion that I would like your opinions on (no promises at this stage):
What would you guys think about the plexes being reintroduced with the same size restrictions but without the NPCs (or without the NPCs in the final room) as a simple location for size restricted pvp decoupled from the DED loot? Do that, (with no NPCs whatsoever) make entering them a mildly illegal act -- the kind that gives people a suspect flag but nothing else -- and you've got the closest equivalent to arenas people keep asking about that Eve can have, duels with no sec status losses, for the least possible amount of coding.
Consensual flagging to a specific person or persons is something we want to do with wider availability than just certain limited locations.
Morgan North wrote:I think that a reward should still be in place.
From my experience, the NPC rats were basically like "rain" in the duels that followed, but the actual goal was always, and always, to loot or deny the loot tothe other player in the room.
So I think that if a "new" complex was added, with the reward in the end it'd result in pretty much be the same, especially with the keys and acess timers.
All in all What I trully suggest is just the same complex, renamed, added as a static location, with the NPC's and all, to continue doing what was being done.
The shift to exploration was done in part to reduce farming of the content, and introducing new rewards is something that has to be done carefully. The main question I'm trying to answer with the "no NPC" query is how much of the pvp was fueled by the loot rewards and how much was fueled by the interesting geography of the acceleration gates. If it's the latter the solution is more simple, if it's the former the solution is more complex.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
2959
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Posted - 2013.01.07 12:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:EDIT after few minutes of flexing my brain muscles:
As much I would like to see our beloved 2/10 plex in Heild back on my overview I wouldn't like it to become a basis for "arenas" in Eve. Dedicated places for pvp have no place in New Eden, period. Beauty of lowsec plexes was in emergent gameplay driven by players "misusing" those beacons. And I am afraid that if you make that first step and put even a hint of "arenas" out there that would make more harm than good in the long run.
I find this argument interesting. Removing existing "arenas" is bad but reintroducing them would be a slippery slope towards something harmful?
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
1339
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Posted - 2013.01.15 16:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Guys I appreciate you're really frustrated, but making the thread even more hostile than it already is isn't going to attract the developer attention you're looking for.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
3795
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Posted - 2013.01.30 10:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hey guys, we haven't abandoned reading the thread, but in this case we're not going to be able to give you a specific answer you're happy with.
I can confirm that it wasn't just farming of the highsec plexes that concerned us, we looked at the data for the number of unique characters completing the lowsec plexes as well and that number was much smaller than we wanted.
All I can really say is that we understand that this change removes a focal point for lowsec fighting that was beneficial in a lot of ways, but that the team here believes that when we look back on this change in hindsight later the benefits will outweigh the loss (in the same way that we believe the benefits outweighed the loss inherent in removing the higher tier static complexes in 2007).
We in Team Five 0 have also been working hard to produce designs that would improve traffic and combat throughout lowsec, starting with all the crimewatch improvements we released in Retribution that improve life for every pirate, and continuing with our designs that were detailed in the CSM minutes. We can't commit to the next stage until we have the theme selection process internally and with the CSM finished, but we're dedicated to building upon what we achieved for lowsec in Retribution.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
3795
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Posted - 2013.01.30 11:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
One other note: Yes we realize that since Retribution the number of kills in systems like Heild have dropped, and we're not glad about that.
However if you look at all lowsec player deaths not involving a FW member, we've seen an increase of 68% since Retribution. That's an average increase of over 1500 kills a day in lowsec without a single FW kill included.
Retribution did not ignore lowsec by any stretch of the the imagination.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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