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bioqaz eylee	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:17:00 - [1] Hi one and all, this is a post to find your view and to warn people to be careful out there. On the morning of Saturday the 30th of April I logged into EVE Online to find that one of my agents had an lp offer for 12Æ800 units of Amarrian wheat and all that was requested of me was 128Æ000 loyalty points. With my goal of obtaining enough points for a faction cruiser the answer to this offer was obvious, ôgo shove it up your bottomö. Or as the option window put it ôNo Thanksö. So my plan was etched, my actions clear, I clicked on the option to decline. Expecting the normal ôyour lossö message you can only imagine the look on my face when I saw the message ôgood choiceö. With great discomfort I clicked the item tabs to show contents of the hanger floor. And there sitting like a lump of pure hostility was 12Æ800 units of Amarrian Wheat. At this point my blood boiling I check my agent and guess what? 128Æ000 loyalty points where now missing. One thing I need to point out. All the lp were obtained via a lvl3 agent, so you can imagine how long it took to obtain them. Now you can imagine the level of rage that had built up inside my little world, fighting all urges to through the pc out of the window, I filed a petition straight away and logged off. Whilst waiting for the petition to get answered I only logged into eve to check messages and such not even wanting to leave the station in case that mucked any sort of checks the GM could do. After some time the petition was finally answered, but as you can guess by this post the answer was NOT to my liking, with out trying to get this deleted by quoting a GM, the only thing I can say here is the GMs need more tools. This whole process has put the questions into my head ôWhy do I play EVEö and ôIs EVE getting better or worseö Apart from the obvious above rant/tension-release the main question is, Q. What is people view on whether you think EVE is improving or declining (and I DONÆT mean new ship additions)? Oh and for all the people that post ôleave/can I have your stuffö, that still might happen so give me some ideas of how best to disperse my assets through the universe. bioqaz eylee.
anter	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:20:00 - [2] Originally by: bioqaz eylee Oh and for all the people that post ôleave/can I have your stuffö, that still might happen so give me some ideas of how best to disperse my assets through the universe. Best possible way would be to escrow it all to me.
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:22:00 - [3] I think it's improving. Oh, and one small suggestion, it isn't a good idea to post that you're ranting when the forum rules says ranting is against the rules. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
bioqaz eylee	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:24:00 - [4] Originally by: anter Best possible way would be to escrow it all to me. hehe. but where is the fun in that. think more a long the lines of concord spank'a'thon, or may be a frig fest. bioqaz eylee
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:29:00 - [5] I do think it's improving, but mostly cos i feel it got nerfd to oblivion a year or so ago Still good tho, i love eve __ There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
anter	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:30:00 - [6] Originally by: bioqaz eylee hehe. but where is the fun in that. think more a long the lines of concord spank'a'thon, or may be a frig fest. Belive me I would have lot of fun with your stuff, but maybe it would be better have the fun yourself and not quit?
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:44:00 - [7] Definately improving, geeting more complex, giving more freedom and more choices. Not enough yet mind you . As to your problem, that's definately a case of CCP coding in those two response lines to close to eachother. Let alone coding in inane offers like getting 12K wheat for 128K lp. No sane person will take that as it is, why they even offer it is a mystery to me. Anyway, gl, try and make it to do lvl 4's and get that lp back for that cruiser. Or just forget about those stupid missions altogether and go do something fun instead. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
RavensMask	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:45:00 - [8] Originally by: bioqaz eylee Hi one and all, this is a post to find your view and to warn people to be careful out there. On the morning of Saturday the 30th of April I logged into EVE Online to find that one of my agents had an lp offer for 12Æ800 units of Amarrian wheat and all that was requested of me was 128Æ000 loyalty points. With my goal of obtaining enough points for a faction cruiser the answer to this offer was obvious, ôgo shove it up your bottomö. Or as the option window put it ôNo Thanksö. So my plan was etched, my actions clear, I clicked on the option to decline. Expecting the normal ôyour lossö message you can only imagine the look on my face when I saw the message ôgood choiceö. With great discomfort I clicked the item tabs to show contents of the hanger floor. And there sitting like a lump of pure hostility was 12Æ800 units of Amarrian Wheat. At this point my blood boiling I check my agent and guess what? 128Æ000 loyalty points where now missing. One thing I need to point out. All the lp were obtained via a lvl3 agent, so you can imagine how long it took to obtain them. Now you can imagine the level of rage that had built up inside my little world, fighting all urges to through the pc out of the window, I filed a petition straight away and logged off. Whilst waiting for the petition to get answered I only logged into eve to check messages and such not even wanting to leave the station in case that mucked any sort of checks the GM could do. After some time the petition was finally answered, but as you can guess by this post the answer was NOT to my liking, with out trying to get this deleted by quoting a GM, the only thing I can say here is the GMs need more tools. This whole process has put the questions into my head ôWhy do I play EVEö and ôIs EVE getting better or worseö Apart from the obvious above rant/tension-release the main question is, Q. What is people view on whether you think EVE is improving or declining (and I DONÆT mean new ship additions)? Oh and for all the people that post ôleave/can I have your stuffö, that still might happen so give me some ideas of how best to disperse my assets through the universe. bioqaz eylee. Hey when you Quit eve we will take all your stuff and help other new players with it!
Roland Ender	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:48:00 - [9] Most games have massive server drops after like 2 months of games release, then the low player base screws up the entire game. Not so with eve though, and I have been playing it a little over a year now and still love the game. I can see why you are ****ed though, that would take me awhile to get with lvl 4 agents and 120K points could get you 8 +3 implants or some other expensive stuff. Shocked a GM couldnt give you something worth more or your LP's back. Well good luck with whatever choice you make. You could always come back and start ganking noobs out of spite.
bioqaz eylee	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Rod Blaine Or just forget about those stupid missions altogether and go do something fun instead. I think that may be the one, "pvp or quit".
RavensMask	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:53:00 - [11] Why not Quit and give me your char. so I can be like all the other players on.
The Enslaver	Posted - 2005.05.03 14:53:00 - [12] Originally by: bioqaz eylee Originally by: Rod Blaine Or just forget about those stupid missions altogether and go do something fun instead. I think that may be the one, "pvp or quit". EVE was far better, including imo for empire dwellers, BEFORE L4 missions. -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.05.03 15:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 03/05/2005 15:03:58 Originally by: bioqaz eylee Originally by: Rod Blaine Or just forget about those stupid missions altogether and go do something fun instead. I think that may be the one, "pvp or quit". No, not pvp or quit. I didn't say nor mean that. However, when you made a mistake that cost you and makes you angry at the game, it might be time for a change of style. Bring some variation into your gameplay, go and try to setup shop sectretly in 0.0 to hunt them nice faction rats there. Or try and become a leading figure in a corporation. You could even try and set up some unique service venture in Eve, like providing mission walk-throughs to struggling mission players. A new challenge can make you look forward to logging on when a perceived failure or some form of frustration made you feel like quitting or whining (not saying you are). Whatever you like, whatever fits your fancy. But remember that there is more then what you currently do to Eve. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
RavensMask	Posted - 2005.05.03 15:06:00 - [14] I think it be better if he gave me all his stuff but well if he stays I think it will be better for him to be a and just take what he need in the game or scam some one out of there ship !
SlaneeshZ	Posted - 2005.05.03 15:21:00 - [15] It could be that you clicked to agree to that offer. But with lots of wheat you can feed your slaves and livestock for a while ---- A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game.
bioqaz eylee	Posted - 2005.05.03 15:30:00 - [16] Originally by: SlaneeshZ It could be that you clicked to agree to that offer. But with lots of wheat you can feed your slaves and livestock for a while wts:overweight slave hounds - perfect for bbq. and thanks for all replys, now i remember why i stayed this long. bioqaz
Harisdrop	Posted - 2005.05.03 15:53:00 - [17] OK your real question is this. Can you live without Eve? I see eve as an exstention of myself. Its a place where you can do more than you can in RL. Here you can be a billionaire. Have slaves and exotic dancers. YOu can blow up bad guys or good guys. You can be ruthless. You can be forgiving. I would say on your little bump in the game. Get over it. Heck we all make mistakes. You have learned a valuable lesson. Whatch that mouse click. They place these buttons as close as together as they can. The best thing to do is leave that agent and start over. Kick'em to the cirbe and find a new system. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Velsharoon	Posted - 2005.05.03 16:13:00 - [18] I think its getting worse I just feel that way cos its so boring atm...even alliance wars bore me now
Badshah	Posted - 2005.05.03 16:23:00 - [19] IMHO the more skills I train, and the more in-game options I explore, the more EVE improves. I have never loved EVE like I love it today. I find that I am doing more different things and having more fun than ever. One thing I'd like to caution others about regarding EVE and probably any other game: Don't forget to have fun! It's a game, not a job! Sometimes I fall into the trap of doing one thing over and over because I see that I am achieving some results. But then, I have to force myself to stop it sometime and break away and just PLAY!! (If I wanted to, I could mine scordite everyday and do nothing else. EVEntually I might become the richest single player in the game. But what's the point?) OK, I'm done. /me climbs down off his soapbox.
Necrologic	Posted - 2005.05.03 16:53:00 - [20] Originally by: bioqaz eylee Originally by: Rod Blaine Or just forget about those stupid missions altogether and go do something fun instead. I think that may be the one, "pvp or quit". I play this game for the pvp and the people. Atleast try some good pvping or piracy before you quit. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Karmic	Posted - 2005.05.03 17:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Velsharoon I think its getting worse I just feel that way cos its so boring atm...even alliance wars bore me now u bloody get back to sucking up those veldspar roids now !!! - - - - - - - - -
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2005.05.03 17:11:00 - [22] Is Eve improving? technically, yes. in terms of visual quality, lag, etc. Gameplay, I'm beginning to feel the bite as player vs player becomes the focus of the game. if I want to do that, I'd play Half-life, or UT2004, or a dozen other games. the fantastic economy and the trading elements of eve seem to be becoming less and less of interest to the devs nowadays. in all, it's improving in areas, to the detriment of others.
Bozse	Posted - 2005.05.03 17:18:00 - [23] The most obvious problem is as many times that the GM's aparantly have to find a log of something gone wrong and if they dont the rules tell them they cant do anything. In a case like this i dont realy see any need for logs or rules aside from the additinal rule that shuld be in use to the ordinary rules they have "use common sense" Might be a good idea to add a confermation that u realy want to accept or decline an offer so this wont happen as the options are close and it is possible to klick wrong if u are unlucky.
Larno	Posted - 2005.05.03 18:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Suze'Rain if I want to do that, I'd play Half-life, or UT2004, or a dozen other games. the fantastic economy and the trading elements of eve seem to be becoming less and less of interest to the devs nowadays. in all, it's improving in areas, to the detriment of others. Yep indeed. You can just respawn yourself in those games too, no need to mine!!
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2005.05.03 19:00:00 - [25] Quote: Yep indeed. You can just respawn yourself in those games too, no need to mine!! smirks I've got an image of someone in UT2004 or Quake, holding a pickaxe, frantically bashing a hole in a wall/cliff, and using chat going "I' wanna mine! I wanna mine! Stop shooting me!"
Alexi Borizkova	Posted - 2005.05.03 19:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Larno Originally by: Suze'Rain if I want to do that, I'd play Half-life, or UT2004, or a dozen other games. the fantastic economy and the trading elements of eve seem to be becoming less and less of interest to the devs nowadays. in all, it's improving in areas, to the detriment of others. Yep indeed. You can just respawn yourself in those games too, no need to mine!! Yeah, but people don't lose anything by dying in those games, which defeats the purpose of pvp.
Larno	Posted - 2005.05.03 21:23:00 - [27] Edited by: Larno on 03/05/2005 21:23:27 Originally by: Alexi Borizkova Originally by: Larno Originally by: Suze'Rain if I want to do that, I'd play Half-life, or UT2004, or a dozen other games. the fantastic economy and the trading elements of eve seem to be becoming less and less of interest to the devs nowadays. in all, it's improving in areas, to the detriment of others. Yep indeed. You can just respawn yourself in those games too, no need to mine!! Yeah, but people don't lose anything by dying in those games, which defeats the purpose of pvp. Oh... so I guess people stopped using ranking systems since yesterday. Too bad.
Zen Later	Posted - 2005.05.03 21:39:00 - [28] Originally by: bioqaz eylee This whole process has put the questions into my head ôWhy do I play EVEö and ôIs EVE getting better or worseö I (used to play a lot of Eve) mainly due to it's incredibly inventive and unique characteristics. This Eve'er finds that while some aspects of the game have been improved, overall this game is exactly the same game that I started playing nearly 2 years ago and has not progressed forward. The improvements that have been implented are of the stock MMO nature that are done far better in other games and not really suited to the uniqueness that (was) Eve .
Namarus	Posted - 2005.05.03 21:42:00 - [29] Tbh, I think that for a long long time CCP customer service have been using 'sorry we don't have the tools to verify' as an excuse. This is a rediculous excuse. It's been over two years now for them to get their act together, and to get the tools that they need to do their job. If they haven't got it by now then that is their fault, and not the customer's fault. They continue to punish their customers over their own ineptitude. Nothing to see here .... move along.
Fuse	Posted - 2005.05.03 22:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Zen Later Originally by: bioqaz eylee This whole process has put the questions into my head ôWhy do I play EVEö and ôIs EVE getting better or worseö I (used to play a lot of Eve) mainly due to it's incredibly inventive and unique characteristics. This Eve'er finds that while some aspects of the game have been improved, overall this game is exactly the same game that I started playing nearly 2 years ago and has not progressed forward. The improvements that have been implented are of the stock MMO nature that are done far better in other games and not really suited to the uniqueness that (was) Eve . I would have to agree here and I would like to add that some of the features we have been waiting on for two years have not been implemented. As eve gets out of debt they are boosting the player base with more advertising (that makes it more interesting). I would say that after two years of waiting I'm starting to look at other games. I am now neutral I don't like this game I don't hate it. It's just a shame that eve online is going the way of EnB with pvp. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
The Enslaver	Posted - 2005.05.03 22:26:00 - [31] As I said... EVE was far better for all pre-L4 missions. Empire dwellers had L3 missions, mining, etc... They didn't complain about it then, it was fine and balanced. There wasn't the insane inflation, mineral prices were lower.... -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
voodoo	Posted - 2005.05.04 00:59:00 - [32] imo no, the game has basiclly stayed the same with just a few more features added. pvp basiclly the same "with a few more toys" but still basiclly the same. Mining really is the same just some diff. stuff to mine, but still the same. agents, really still the same they just pay more. research, well we got alot more lab slots but research is still the same npc hunting still basiclly done the same way just higher pay. u asked and thats my opinion. The Blue Pills Make Me Happy
F'nog	Posted - 2005.05.04 01:03:00 - [33] The GMs definitely need more power. I had a problem with a storyline mission, L3, that wasn't working. All the GMs could do was give me a L1 mission. Wow, thanks. If they can't even do something as simple as resetting the right mission, how are we supposed to expect they can actually help us in other problems?
Fellhand	Posted - 2005.05.04 01:22:00 - [34] Someone already said this but I have to agree: I still like Eve but the dev's nearly exclusive focus on combat is making me feel the pinch. I've been playing on and off since about a month after UK retail and while combat's had a thousand new things, tweaks, nerfs, etc; industrialists have had virtually nothing (nothing at all if you discount mining barges which should have been in the game at launch). Agent missions, well, I don't play them but as far as I can see, it's just more of the same, just slightly harder and better paying. The other thing that seriously annoying the ** out of me is CCP's contempt for the idea of delivering what they promised. It's been, what, five months since Exodus, maybe six? And things like gas cloud mining, comet mining and the formal contract system are still** not in game despite the fact that they're still advertised as Exodus features! On the very rare occasions that a dev comments on this (or the promised-for-even-longer corp tax), the comment is rarely more than the increasingly unfunny "SOON". CCP are actually proud of their inability to deliver! _______________________________________________ There is no such thing as too much cynicism Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats... Beware of geeks bearing gifs
Taize	Posted - 2005.05.04 01:35:00 - [35] Edited by: Taize on 04/05/2005 01:43:43 I recently posted that i was leaving...that explains my choice.. I will say this tho. Eve was originally designed to be a fleet combat game at heart. The only new additions i see support that. New ships, guns, combat skills etc. only add to pvp. as much as i liked being a pirate i also chose it because the whole trading/mining racket was so shallow and undeveloped. sure mining barges are cool but in fairness they really are 0.0'ing the whole ***** game. Eve for me was always about the people and i eventually realised that i was often logging on to talk to some m8's instead of anything else becaus i was so ***** bored with ploughing thru crap missions or sitting at a gate. Its just my opinion and i know everyone has one but i have made my choice and im sticking by it... Good luck regardless of what you choose... Taize.
Josef Rastapopoulos	Posted - 2005.05.04 02:57:00 - [36] Originally by: bioqaz eylee 12Æ800 units of Amarrian Wheat I bet all that anguish would taste great as a biscuit.
Reiisha	Posted - 2005.05.04 03:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Suze'Rain Gameplay, I'm beginning to feel the bite as player vs player becomes the focus of the game. if I want to do that, I'd play Half-life, or UT2004, or a dozen other games. So, you can respawn in EVE right after being killed, get new weapons within seconds of respawning, the only death penalty being 1 kill added to your opponents score, and you can never mine? Awfull.... Seriously, you can;t compare EVE to those games, no matter in what way you look at it. PvP in EVE is not just shooting each other in 1on1's. It;s battles between 100 people or more, it's financially ruining each other on the market in Kor-Azor, it's making some money with friends in a relaxed way.... Prolly more a way of life than anything else. If i want to frag people i play ut and half life, if i want to PvP i play EVE. Nuff said. Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming!
Tisiph0ne	Posted - 2005.05.04 05:52:00 - [38] They need to put spaces between those options. I run so many programs that my mouse jumps all over the screen enough as it is. The station and market interfaces are more deadly than combat. If any of you see me in 0.0, keep honking, I'm still trying to click something.
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.05.04 08:59:00 - [39] In my opinion: no. Mai's Idealog
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.05.04 09:04:00 - [40] It's certainly changes. I'd like to think it has improved, it's just that the improvements happened with too much time in between, and not neccesarily in the direction I would have chosen. Still, 's a good game. [Heterocephalus glaber]
The Enslaver	Posted - 2005.05.04 09:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Fellhand Someone already said this but I have to agree: I still like Eve but the dev's nearly exclusive focus on combat is making me feel the pinch. I've been playing on and off since about a month after UK retail and while combat's had a thousand new things, tweaks, nerfs, etc; industrialists have had virtually nothing (nothing at all if you discount mining barges which should have been in the game at launch). Agent missions, well, I don't play them but as far as I can see, it's just more of the same, just slightly harder and better paying. The other thing that seriously annoying the ** out of me is CCP's contempt for the idea of delivering what they promised. It's been, what, five months since Exodus, maybe six? And things like gas cloud mining, comet mining and the formal contract system are still** not in game despite the fact that they're still advertised as Exodus features! On the very rare occasions that a dev comments on this (or the promised-for-even-longer corp tax), the comment is rarely more than the increasingly unfunny "SOON". CCP are actually proud of their inability to deliver! Myself; I am in FULL support for a large increase in the number of features, etc available for industrialists. It is imo needed, and well - industry is what empire is supposed to be about... Not slaughtering 1.5m NPC's in a 1.0 -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Lady Rona	Posted - 2005.05.04 09:32:00 - [42] YES its improving everyday you play you meet peeps that are comming on ya PAWN list. There just no time to sit still. Need to do a lot 187.
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2005.05.04 10:12:00 - [43] I dont think that Eve has improved. It has changed, and I have adapted, but it has not improved. Most of the features that were presented on the original box, during beta, and the first months of post release have yet to be implimented. More time is wasted trying to "balance" all the units that could have been put into content. The real problem that I see with Eve is that there is little or no framework for content. The IMHO is due to two problems. The first is the use of alts. The whole alt concept in Eve was not well thought out. For example, why should there be a need for gun runners and fences to handle pirate loot when the pirate just creates an alt and does it for themselves. The second problem is Concord and the one universe rule. There are four empires and many small kingdoms. There should not be a "security" rating for a player but a standing for the government of the space that you are in. As a Caldari, if I go into Gal space and pirate, then my standing in Gal's governed space goes down but my Caldari rating goes up. As it stands now, only the Concord "security" rating matters. So while the dev's have added geewiz crap to the game, the underlining structure has not gotten any better since release and IMHO it has gotten worse with all the knee jerk reaction to MoO, Zombies, etc. that hosed everyone instead of banning players for doing bad things. But hey, it is more economically vialble for CCP to screw everyone that to risk a monthly payment. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Franken Slammer	Posted - 2005.05.11 04:27:00 - [44] i would like to see smuggling properly implemented. it's in the eve book with the first cd ffs. it narks me off that i'm expected to supply 20k of assorted drugs sometimes for mega money in a lp offer, but there isn't that sum of illegal items in the whole region, and i've had some bad experiences near jump gates with contraband. maybe some smuggling ships and skills can be made. nice and easy, just make sure concord doesn't scan the ship, or maybe 80% of the cargo hold can be filled with contraband. etc. of course, it's better when i don't have to create an alt with indy skills, as a disposible carrier.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.05.11 04:47:00 - [45] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 11/05/2005 04:47:25 /me agrees with voodoo MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Mervent	Posted - 2005.05.11 05:10:00 - [46] I left Eve for a couple of months, and played a bunch of other MMORPGs. Other than WWII Online, this game is great, and I had to come back. I think Eve improved while I was gone, and improved tons since first released.
Avon	Posted - 2005.05.11 08:47:00 - [47] Originally by: bioqaz eylee With my goal of obtaining enough points for a faction cruiser the answer to this offer was obvious... ... All the lp were obtained via a lvl3 agent, so you can imagine how long it took to obtain them. When did lvl3 agents start giving out faction ships? Why did no-one tell me? ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.05.11 08:55:00 - [48] Edited by: Typherin laidai on 11/05/2005 08:55:47 Originally by: Avon Originally by: bioqaz eylee With my goal of obtaining enough points for a faction cruiser the answer to this offer was obvious... ... All the lp were obtained via a lvl3 agent, so you can imagine how long it took to obtain them. When did lvl3 agents start giving out faction ships? Why did no-one tell me? the level of agent makes ABSOLUTLEY NO DIFFERENCE to the offers. they are simply based on your Lp. hell you could get a faction bs with a level 1 agent presuming the servers are going to be online for the next 2 years Typherin LaiDai Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
fairimear	Posted - 2005.05.11 11:25:00 - [49] no direct answer to this but probably some parts yes others are by far getting worse. depends on you point of view and how nerfs affect you. in the words of teh great obiwan. you will find a great manythings depend on one's own point of view. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.

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