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Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:49:00 - [31] Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 06/05/2005 20:34:53 Quote: You should NEVER, NEVER move that much crap through 0.0 in one ship and one load without escort, and doing so when not immediately after downtime is just silly. Do it right after DT, and the escort might not even be necessary. Ok Corvus, we have heard enough people state the obvious. How about you tell us how YOU would go about handling the same situation. I see alot of finger pointing, but no one has said much about how THEY would handle it that would avoid the same outcome. If this person was so stupid and made such a HUGE mistake, how about some of you expert players enlighten us with your wisdom and tell us how you would get 10km3 across 56 jumps without getting blown up by gankers? Im gunna stick with my opinion that there is almost NO WAY to safely move 10km3 across 56 jumps safely without having several ships guarding you, or perhaps being rich and being able to actually afford one of the beefy tech II haulers. Well, we already know this guy had 80mil worth of stuff, so one of those beefy tech2 haulers was a distinct possibility. Now here's how I'd do it, to accept your challenge. 1: Run the route up and back once in a shuttle. If I see a threat, time to do the 56 jump thing or wait for another time. 2: Do it right after DT so the likelihood of a gank is minimal 3: Move it 3-5km3 / trip, so that one loss isn't a complete loss. 4: Dedicate the time it takes to do it right. 5: Not get so attached to fictional stuff that belongs to a fictional character that I crap a brick if I lose it all. 6: Watch local with each jump and not use autopilot so I can check on affiliations as I move. If I see someone else in local, I convo them and find out if they're friend or foe, and pay ransoms as necessary. If local is blank, run my scanner to be safe. 7: Fit WCS in my lows, not cargo expanders 8: Only go 56 jumps if 13 jumps aren't clear. 9: If I still get ganked, admit it was my fault for leaving 80mil in one place at one time in 0.0 in the first place. Piracy is part of EVE. EVE requires it to function, no matter how it happens. If you don't like it, C.I.H.Y.S? "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:52:00 - [32] Originally by: Crash Amana Edited by: Crash Amana on 06/05/2005 20:44:58 And all this was for what so a player could enjoy bashing people that don't challenge him No wonder nobody likes Xetic.... He probably did it for the 80 frikkin mil in equipment you were carrying. Remember....it's not that all that stuff was lost. It was that he found the leftovers. Somewhere there's a very happy pirate right now. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:55:00 - [33] Ah, XETIC Federation, that explains everything. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Crash Amana	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:56:00 - [34] I don't even know anyone in Xetic, I joined Event Nova cause I knew some of the players in it. Don't involve Xetic just cause u have something against em
Lythius Arcturnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:56:00 - [35] Well, your post with suggestions was much better than your first "You suck, stop whining" post. =P
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 06/05/2005 20:30:24 Quote: It's 0.0. It's unregulated space. The risks are spelled out to everyone the first time they activate a jump gate in there with a nice window telling you what you're getting in to. Thats fine Winterblink. I don't have a problem with that, and thats not what I was discussing. The thesis of my post wasn't about how obvious the dangers should be, it was the fact that TOO MUCH CAN BE LOST TOO QUICKLY! This concept has nothing to do with 0.0, it has to do with game mechanics. Lets look at what happened to the author of this thread... What tools could they have used to do what they wanted (relocate their stuff to empire) while avoiding getting blown up? #1 Make 5 56 jump trips so if they did get blown up they wouldn't lose it all. Thats ridiculous. Thats hours and hours and hours, and they still probably would have been blown up a few times. #2 Get an escort. The person said that hadn't played for month. They also didn't have much money, and getting an escort for a 56 jump trip probably wasn't feasible. #3 Pack everything up and hope for the best. This is what they did and it didn't work too well. My point is that this person was screwed from the get go. Not so much even by the pirate that killed them but by the game mechanics. Ideally using a T2 hauler that could withstand a gate encounter would be a good way to use game mechanics to deal with the situation, but your talking about 220 million isk and 2 months of training time to be able to use it. Just my opinion. I love Eve, and I think things will get better in the future (not that they are horrible now), but I really wanna see this random insta gank stuff stop in 0.0. Its just immature, pointless crap that is nothing more than pure grief (thats legal). Additionally, I wouldn't have minded hearing how this person got blown up if the pirate that blew them up had gained anything from the the encounter. If the pirate gained anything in any way from the encounter I wouldn't mind at all. If they gained some faction increase, or if they gained some points for something, anything, I could understand. The fact is though that this person was flying around, saw a target that they KNEW they could kill in seconds, and then killed them just for chuckles. There was no point to it. None what so ever. The target lost everything so the pirate could chuckle and say "Haha, I killed another one. Ok back to flying around now." OMG, mate, what do you expect from 0.0 space? this is FREE FOR ALL SPACE! Do you understand? FREE FOR ALL! If you are not prepared to be here, dont be here or get ganked! If you cant accept risk and live with it, then you should NOT be in 0.0 My god... Guys, All of you! REMEMBER!!! 0.0 space is LAWLESS SPACE! NO POLICE, NO ONE TO DEFEND YOU! ONLY YOUR FRIENDS!! 0.0 space is NOT empire space! You HAVE to look around! Just like in dark street in the middle of the night. You must watch your back! And no! Camp gates, pirates and whatever else is NOT, i repeat NOT griefing or hacking or whatever. Its just a style of game! They are hunters, you are prey, but noone, i repeat NOONE is gonna stop you from changing it! Think! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:57:00 - [37] Edited by: Winterblink on 06/05/2005 20:58:19 Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus Quote: And all this was for what so a player could enjoy bashing people that don't challenge him Thats the ENTIRE problem right there! VERY well said! It's been my experience that people who prey on targets that pose no challenge are no challenge themselves when faced with someone that has experience. For example, we had a fellow in one of the systems I frequent that was going around splashing indies and barges. He'd warp to bms way out, make new bms near them and warp back right next to them, blow them away. No real challenge, for a combat frigate really. We shadowed him for a while and eventually laid a trap with my barge, and when he came in someone trounced him completely with a Ferox. Suddenly, he had his hands full, was fumbling around trying to figure out what to do, and got smoked -- easily. I'm pretty sure the fight would have ended up the same had he faced the identical ship loadout to what he had. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.05.06 20:59:00 - [38] Originally by: Crash Amana I don't even know anyone in Xetic, I joined Event Nova cause I knew some of the players in it. Don't involve Xetic just cause u have something against em Xetic = Alliance. We call it the CBA. The only reason they got involved is because many of their members have the same reaction to EVE as you did. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"
Mortuus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:00:00 - [39] Ummm....how about this. You didn't need all that random crap wherever you were taking it. Borrow a few mil, goto empire, set up a cruiser, run missions. I doubt you will miss the pile of junk that all told only came to 80mil. Honestly, if you weren't prepared to take the time to plan it, and be careful moving your items thats a problem and you probably shouldn't have been in 0.0. However I doubt your losses would take long to fix. Get a frig or dessie with large cargo, ask a corpmate if you can get the loot he doesn't want. Refine the junk, keep the decent stuff, make a new ship. Go to empire, run your missions. Would take probably 3-4 days to rebuild. I never move much of my stuff. My stuff in 0.0 stays there and only minerals and expensive named loot goes back to empire in a FAST frigate. Then I bring all that lovely tech2 gear and ships back up fully armed. 0.0, against the common belief, is not hard to survive in.
Tairos Hakonnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 06/05/2005 20:49:58 Quote: And all this was for what so a player could enjoy bashing people that don't challenge him Thats the ENTIRE problem right there! VERY well said! Something needs to be added to the game that would make it a gamble for the attacker to attack the helpless looking hauler. Let us put some super one shot use weapon on a hauler, or give us some projector module that makes the hauler look like a battleship to other ships. The thing is that haulers have NO DEFENSES what so ever. Its about the only ship in the game aside from barges that really have nothing to counter the gankers. As it stands right now, its like pitting Mike Tyson against a 3rd grader. You should go ahead and cancel your subscription as well. ---------------------------- http://spla.sh/bp/bp_files/main.htm

Crash Amana	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:01:00 - [41] Ur too busy comparing this, a game to real life. The point of the game is to have fun but the risks in this game are insanly high and can mean the difference between logging on in the future and cancelling ur sub. I'm not the only one that has cancelled their sub due to things like this. Yeh it's a risk but should it really be such a high risk that if everything goes to pot people just say to **** with it and cancel their sub. I know countless people some even freinds that cancelled because they lost far too much in this game. It's stupid.
Gift	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:02:00 - [42] Edited by: Gift on 06/05/2005 21:04:18 I lose around 150mil everytime I lose a ship, thats what makes it worth fighting for. harsh dead = more fun. go play something else if this isnt for you. Originally by: Crash Amana I know countless people some even freinds that cancelled because they lost far too much in this game. It's stupid. its been this way from the begining, some adapt, some leave, some cry on the forums then leave..
Lythius Arcturnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:06:00 - [43] Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 06/05/2005 21:06:03 Quote: You should go ahead and cancel your subscription as well. Another gaming visionary. I bet you get calls from TIME magazine all the time asking for interviews. Thanks for the advice, but I think i'll stick to making my own gaming decisions.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:06:00 - [44] We had one fellow in our corp lose his last combat capable ship (of any real threat) and he as stone cold broke. Know what we did? We all got the corp together for a giant mining op in a 0.3. We all made money from the sales of the minerals, got money from the bounties of spawns, and generally had a good time. Took a few days of good solid resource gathering, but everyone made out well. And since everyone did it together, the overall risk was kept low while the money came in to buy new equipment. Good stuff. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Lythius Arcturnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:07:00 - [45] Quote: The point of the game is to have fun but the risks in this game are insanly high and can mean the difference between logging on in the future and cancelling ur sub. I'm not the only one that has cancelled their sub due to things like this. Another very valid point!
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus Quote: The point of the game is to have fun but the risks in this game are insanly high and can mean the difference between logging on in the future and cancelling ur sub. I'm not the only one that has cancelled their sub due to things like this. Another very valid point! Why? Don't just agree with it 100%. Is there some good reason that because this happens that the game mechanics have to change? Because so far in 3 pages of posts I haven't seen a single one. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Lythius Arcturnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:12:00 - [47] Quote: I lose around 150mil everytime I lose a ship, thats what makes it worth fighting for. go play something else if this isn't for you. Hmmm, so let me get this straight. I SHOULDN'T play a game that I love because of one specific problem I have with it? Amazing analysis really. /golf clap
Steven Bates	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:12:00 - [48] Edited by: Steven Bates on 06/05/2005 21:14:24 edit: Man I love how that 'pirate' term keeps getting thrown around, even after 2 years at this game. Ok, first off I hate forums. I think in two years of playing this game I've posted on these things maybe twice. This is the exact reason why. Here's the exact chain of events. I was watching the upper corridor, hoping to get a fight in the harpy. I jump into system to find an hostile indy (not on insta's, mind you). I ask in corp chat "is event nova part of that NAP?". I get a reply from the co-CEO saying "they already broke the NAP". She jumps through, and I jump right behind and immediate warp to the next gate. Here she comes outta warp, again, not on insta's. I'm thinking "Man, this is too good to be true". So I light her up and catch the pod too. SO, if you wanna cry and whine, then go plan another game. Killing and being killed are a part of 0.0 space. People like you have gotten PvP nerfed to hell and back. (All the changes haven't been bad though). Here's the killmail, not even close to 80mil (i picked up an alpha hull mod expander and bunch of basic skills): 2005.05.06 19:43:00 Victim: Crash Amana Corporation: Event NOVA Destroyed Type: Iteron Mark IV Solar System: WD-VTV System Security Level: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Steven Bates (laid the final blow) Security Status: 2.0 Corporation: Species 5618 Ship Type: Harpy Weapon Type: 150mm Railgun II Destroyed items: Type: Alpha Hull Mod Expanded Cargo (Cargo) Type: Medium Converse I Deflection Catalyzer (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Partial Hull Conversion Expanded Cargo (Cargo) Type: 10MN Afterburner I (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Cap Recharger I (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Small Shield Extender I (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Heavy Drone Operation (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Long Range Targeting (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Survey (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Energy Emission Systems (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Energy Systems Operation (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Shield Emission Systems (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Shield Management (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Tactical Shield Manipulation (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Large Energy Turret (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Motion Prediction (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Sharpshooter (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Small Energy Turret (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Surgical Strike (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Trajectory Analysis (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Clarity (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Focus (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Presence (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Remote Armor Repair Systems (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: FoF Missiles (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Fuel Conservation (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: High Speed Maneuvering (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Astrogeology (Cargo) Quantity: 1 Type: Warp Core Stabilizer I (Fitted - Low slot) Type: Warp Core Stabilizer I (Fitted - Low slot) Type: Basic Power Diagnostic System (Fitted - Low slot)
Crash Amana	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:13:00 - [49] Quote: its been this way from the begining, some adapt, some leave, some cry on the forums then leave.. Yeh but do you think this is fair ? People spend alot of time and effort on the game and there is risks but sometimes no matter what steps u take u can end up loosing it on in a matter of seconds. Some people do leave due to issues like this but wouldn't it be better if everyone stayed, everyone had fun. Is it right to make people feel crap and then tell em to bugger off ?
Gift	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:17:00 - [50] Originally by: Crash Amana Quote: its been this way from the begining, some adapt, some leave, some cry on the forums then leave.. Yeh but do you think this is fair ? People spend alot of time and effort on the game and there is risks but sometimes no matter what steps u take u can end up loosing it on in a matter of seconds. Yes, that is why I play it. I get a rush when I feel like real hard work is turning to dust b4 my eyes. That makes the victorys and the narrow escapes so much sweeter.

Lythius Arcturnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:21:00 - [51] Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 06/05/2005 21:22:19 Quote: I'm thinking "Man, this is too good to be true". So you admit the encounter was completely unfair? Good job! Busted IMO.
Tairos Hakonnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:22:00 - [52] If you can't pull yourself up after taking a hard loss like that then this game is not for you, just quit and save yourself some money. I've lost 3 battleships and about 300 million isk in the past 2 weeks and you don't see me on here threatening to cancel my sub. If you can't hack it, leave. ---------------------------- http://spla.sh/bp/bp_files/main.htm
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus Quote: I'm thinking "Man, this is too good to be true". So you admit the encounter was completely unfair? Good job! That's one way to twist someone else's words. If there was a political motivation, and a violated treaty of non-agression sounds fine by me, then this wasn't a ruthless gank for the sake of a gank. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Galeo	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Steven Bates I jump into system to find an hostile indy (not on insta's, mind you). OMG - BEWARE THE HOSTILE INDY!!!!! Thank god you killed it, phew, you saved the day.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:23:00 - [55] Originally by: Crash Amana Quote: its been this way from the begining, some adapt, some leave, some cry on the forums then leave.. Yeh but do you think this is fair ? People spend alot of time and effort on the game and there is risks but sometimes no matter what steps u take u can end up loosing it on in a matter of seconds. Some people do leave due to issues like this but wouldn't it be better if everyone stayed, everyone had fun. Is it right to make people feel crap and then tell em to bugger off ? If it was fair, it wouldn't be fun. You fit the bill for your Alliance 100%. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Lythius Arcturnus	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:24:00 - [56] All things aside, he admitted himself that the encounter at the root level was completely unfair. Nuff said.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:25:00 - [57] An Industrial in 0.0 is a target. Just. Like. Any. Other. Ship. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Galeo OMG - BEWARE THE HOSTILE INDY!!!!! Thank god you killed it, phew, you saved the day. Pods pose no danger whatsoever. Perhaps you'd enlighten us as to why THEY get walloped. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:26:00 - [59] Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus All things aside, he admitted himself that the encounter at the root level was completely unfair. Nuff said. Incorrect. Or rather, inaccurate. Go back and read that line again, this time in context with the whole post. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.05.06 21:27:00 - [60] Even so, why would a pirate (or political party, same thing with a nice name) be interested in a fair fight? A pirate seeking a fair fight is a really lousy pirate. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!"



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