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The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
83
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote:The Djentleman Paulson wrote:WHY YOU CARE
I FLY LOGI
NO KILLMAILS
I DONT CARE
SATISFACTION OF SAVING FRIENDS IS ENOUGH Do you now? I waded through the first 10 pages of your ship losses and did not see a single Logistics ship listed. Am I to suppose that the other Logi in your Alliance only rep you when you are flying Logistics? It looks to me like you are a DPS pilot Trolling me with no credentials to back up your statement. I am not saying that there are not legitimate Logi pilots who share the sentiments you are espousing. I am just saying that I think you are only pretending to be one of those pilots in order to Troll me.
LOL THIS GUY THINK I FLY LOGI ON MY MAIN
edit:
rest in peace guardian https://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=616543
and scimi https://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=571296
we tend not to lose many logistics ships and i really dont give a **** that i dont get on any killmails when i fly it like i said earlier, the reward is knowing you helped save your spacefriends |

Renier Gaden
Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy.
33
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
The Djentleman Paulson wrote:Renier Gaden wrote:The Djentleman Paulson wrote:WHY YOU CARE
I FLY LOGI
NO KILLMAILS
I DONT CARE
SATISFACTION OF SAVING FRIENDS IS ENOUGH Do you now? I waded through the first 10 pages of your ship losses and did not see a single Logistics ship listed. Am I to suppose that the other Logi in your Alliance only rep you when you are flying Logistics? It looks to me like you are a DPS pilot Trolling me with no credentials to back up your statement. I am not saying that there are not legitimate Logi pilots who share the sentiments you are espousing. I am just saying that I think you are only pretending to be one of those pilots in order to Troll me. LOL THIS GUY THINK I FLY LOGI ON MY MAIN edit: rest in peace guardian https://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=616543and scimi https://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=571296we tend not to lose many logistics ships and i really dont give a **** that i dont get on any killmails when i fly it like i said earlier, the reward is knowing you helped save your spacefriends And yet, in a Logi thread, you still post on the character with the best Killboard stats... |

The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote: And yet, in a Logi thread, you still post on the character with the best Killboard stats...
WAT YOU WANT ME TO CHANGE CHARACTER FOR FORUM POSTING?
LOLNO
|

Reidar Oskald
The 12th Legion Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
10
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
I feel that, as stated earlier, the new lower T1 logi frigs/cruisers will change CCP's stance on KillMails for logi reps. Enough High Sec CareBears cry that their new 'logi profession' doesn't get them accolades will get this change pushed through. I know they were planning on adding logi to KillMails earlier this year, and like the other poster, surprised it wasn't in Retribution.
In regards to Logi pilots as they are now, AKA Tech 2 cruisers with Logi 5 (or 4 going to 5), I know saving your corpmates and contributing to the fight is reward enough. I also know some Alliances/corps give prizes to the best performing members on the KillBoard, and to alleviate this for the Logi pilots, they give a salary to Logi pilots as thanks for their dedication. I know I enjoy Logi more than the pew-pew, to be honest, and also know the Logi have the gratitude of our fleets when we are a deciding factor.
Reidar |

Renier Gaden
Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy.
36
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
I started this thread now because I am standing on the precipice, having to grapple with abandoning my killboard stats in order to dive into life as a Logistics pilot. There is no going back, at least not easily. Inevitably I will loose ships. My fleet commander is one of those guys who will stand and fight unless there is absolutely no chance of victory, and even then he may choose a glorious death over a tactical retreat. My losses will pile up without any kills to balance them out.
In time I too will care nothing for my killboard stats, as my killboard will be meaningless. Killboards tell such a small part of a Logistics pilotGÇÖs story. But I have not yet taken that leap, I have not yet lost a logistics ship, and it still pains me to give up the yard stick that others judge me by.
Yes, I realize the importance of Logistics pilots, and yes my Alliance recognizes their importance as well. Many Logistics pilots say that the recognition they get from their Fleets, Corp, and Alliance is all they need. These things are important to me as well, otherwise I would not have committed so much of my skill training toward this goal. However, it just feels punitive to give up any recognition outside of my Alliance in order to fully commit to Logistics.
I will not have a main that just pew pewGÇÖs, who I can use to post on the forums to show how good a PVP pilot I am. Both my accounts will be going full Logistics. My focus will be the welfare of my fleet and I will not distract myself trying to ***** on killmails. Only if I have the luxury of time and position, such as while gate camping, would I engage in such antics, and such situations are not likely to happen often enough to have a meaningful effect on my killboard. I would rather carry repair drones anyway.
I may be whining a bit, but dam it, I am about to jump in with both feet and the water looks cold! |

Fractal Muse
Dead's Prostitutes Test Friends Please Ignore
55
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote: I may be whining a bit, but dam it, I am about to jump in with both feet and the water looks cold!
Jump.
You can still game the kill mail system if you want to.
|

Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
32
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 17:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Once upon a time it was actually a major tactical error for Logi to put drones/whoreguns on targets, because as long as they didn't they could still jump and/or dock if needed. Now, if you rep someone that has a weapons flag, you are just as stuck as they are, so in all honesty I'd expect even the most disciplined logi pilots of the past to change their policy on the use of whoredrones. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3926
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 17:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Why should you get on killmails? Why does it even matter?
(Inb4 "James, you don't fly logi either." Well no I don't, I like flying DPS. I don't fly DPS because of killmails though) Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |

Mizhir
Red Federation
4508
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 17:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Like KMs and Killboard stats is all what matters in this game.  The Logi Pilot we need... Not the Logi Pilot we deserve |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2121
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
Being a logistics and helping out your fellow fleetmemeber is its own reward. If you want killmails, being a logistics is not for you. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Xanthe Isgar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Remove all killmails from the game if they're so unimportant to everyone. |

Whitehound
814
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
It is called killboard and not repairboard. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Mizhir
Red Federation
4520
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xanthe Isgar wrote:Remove all killmails from the game if they're so unimportant to everyone.
That would be a blessing to the game. The Logi Pilot we need... Not the Logi Pilot we deserve |

Salana Drashen
Setenta Corp AL3XAND3R.
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:It is called killboard and not repairboard.
True.
However the development of a more useful battle report could be cool, such as the inclusion of the amount of HP repaired by individual logistics pilots.
This is not something which will happen soon though given that determining when a battle starts and ends is not clear cut, especially if involved in a running engagement over multiple systems. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3050
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote:Now that PVP penalties have been applied to Logistics and Support pilots, isnGÇÖt it about time the PVP rewards be applied to them as well?
The only reward a good logi pilot needs is victory.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3050
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote:The Djentleman Paulson wrote:WHY YOU CARE
I FLY LOGI
NO KILLMAILS
I DONT CARE
SATISFACTION OF SAVING FRIENDS IS ENOUGH Do you now? I waded through the first 10 pages of your ship losses and did not see a single Logistics ship listed. Am I to suppose that the other Logi in your Alliance only rep you when you are flying Logistics? It looks to me like you are a DPS pilot Trolling me with no credentials to back up your statement. I am not saying that there are not legitimate Logi pilots who share the sentiments you are espousing. I am just saying that I think you are only pretending to be one of those pilots in order to Troll me.
I spent 2+ years PVPing 5-6 hours a day and only got on a handfull of killmails. This doesn't bother me, really.
/shrug
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3050
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
IMO logis don't have the slot for whoring with a gun/launcher. ECM Drones, if anything.
-Liang
Ed: Save a life; fit another rep. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3051
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Altaen wrote:Once upon a time it was actually a major tactical error for Logi to put drones/whoreguns on targets, because as long as they didn't they could still jump and/or dock if needed. Now, if you rep someone that has a weapons flag, you are just as stuck as they are, so in all honesty I'd expect even the most disciplined logi pilots of the past to change their policy on the use of whoredrones.
You still burn a lock slot (or more!) controlling hostile drones. You still didn't bring rep drones. You still didn't save your ECM drones for when they actually matter. But yeah, I'm not gonna be actively hostile to whoredrones like I am to whoreguns.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Nitko Koraka
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Being a logistics and helping out your fellow fleetmemeber is its own reward. If you want killmails, being a logistics is not for you.
This is my view on the subject as well. As soon as I'm done skilling dictors I'm going straight into logi. The success of the fleet as a whole is what is important. Your personal killboard means nothing. I feel strongly enough about the issue that I would oppose the implementation of putting logi on killmails to weed out those who don't value the team over themselves.
I'm proud to be a part of an alliance that tracks fleet participation in ways other than killboards and heavily weights logi activity. |

Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Xanthe Isgar wrote:Remove all killmails from the game if they're so unimportant to everyone. That would be a blessing to the game.
Confirmed. Killboards and killmails are responsible for a HUGE percentage of risk averse behavior. Without them I'd expect significantly more actual fights, and significantly more interesting fit experimentation. |

Whitehound
814
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Salana Drashen wrote:However the development of a more useful battle report could be cool, such as the inclusion of the amount of HP repaired by individual logistics pilots. I know, I know, but do you know what will happen if they did this? Logis would come out quite at the top, because they often have to repair more than the damage of a single ship. The repair amount would dominate on most kill reports and make every "killer" look little. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |

Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Altaen wrote:Once upon a time it was actually a major tactical error for Logi to put drones/whoreguns on targets, because as long as they didn't they could still jump and/or dock if needed. Now, if you rep someone that has a weapons flag, you are just as stuck as they are, so in all honesty I'd expect even the most disciplined logi pilots of the past to change their policy on the use of whoredrones. You still burn a lock slot (or more!) controlling hostile drones. You still didn't bring rep drones. You still didn't save your ECM drones for when they actually matter. But yeah, I'm not gonna be actively hostile to whoredrones like I am to whoreguns. -Liang
I believe very much in being actively hostile regarding whoreguns, but ***** drones can simply be assigned to assist the FC or something similar, keeping you from sacrificing the lock.
In all honestly, the main reason I'd like to see logi on killmails is that it is highly inaccurate that a Scimitar repairing a Merlin killing a Sleipnir or something similar will appear to be a solo kill. Also, a 10v20 fight where the 20 are half Guardians will often appear on a battlereport as an ~honourable 10v10 brawl~
While I agree that the real solution is to eliminate killboards and killmails, I find that so highly unlikely to happen that I would advocate listing any "flagged assistant" on killmails. |

Mizhir
Red Federation
4523
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Altaen wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Altaen wrote:Once upon a time it was actually a major tactical error for Logi to put drones/whoreguns on targets, because as long as they didn't they could still jump and/or dock if needed. Now, if you rep someone that has a weapons flag, you are just as stuck as they are, so in all honesty I'd expect even the most disciplined logi pilots of the past to change their policy on the use of whoredrones. You still burn a lock slot (or more!) controlling hostile drones. You still didn't bring rep drones. You still didn't save your ECM drones for when they actually matter. But yeah, I'm not gonna be actively hostile to whoredrones like I am to whoreguns. -Liang I believe very much in being actively hostile regarding whoreguns, but ***** drones can simply be assigned to assist the FC or something similar, keeping you from sacrificing the lock. In all honestly, the main reason I'd like to see logi on killmails is that it is highly inaccurate that a Scimitar repairing a Merlin killing a Sleipnir or something similar will appear to be a solo kill. Also, a 10v20 fight where the 20 are half Guardians will often appear on a battlereport as an ~honourable 10v10 brawl~ While I agree that the real solution is to eliminate killboards and killmails, I find that so highly unlikely to happen that I would advocate listing any "flagged assistant" on killmails.
Another reason why KBs should never be trusted. They are far too inaccurate and often hides the truth.
The Logi Pilot we need... Not the Logi Pilot we deserve |

Darvaleth Sigma
195
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
When will Logi pilots get on KMs? When they get the balls to put some guns on their boats, rather than space-magic happy-rays. Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life! |

Terajima Kazumi
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 19:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:When will Logi pilots get on KMs? When they get the balls to put some guns on their boats, rather than space-magic happy-rays. Logi pilots go into battle without any weapons knowing that they'll be the primary target in every fight. That's pretty much the epitome of ballsy. |

Eli Green
The Arrow Project
478
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 19:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
NECRO'd
Edit: fellow logibros if you want kills don't fly logi and/or train someone else to train logi so you can get proof of your L337 pewpew skillzorz wumbo |

Altaen
Calamitous-Intent
37
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 20:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:NECRO'd
Edit: fellow logibros if you want kills don't fly logi and/or train someone else to train logi so you can get proof of your L337 pewpew skillzorz
I blame work-avoidance EVE Gate browsing for this particular necro. Someone hit like on a post I made here ages ago, and I was inspired to elaborate...would have never known if it hadn't been for Notifications. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1296
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 20:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote:Now that PVP penalties have been applied to Logistics and Support pilots, isnGÇÖt it about time the PVP rewards be applied to them as well?
If a Logistics pilot reps a Suspect ship it gets flagged as Suspect and takes a Sec status hit accordingly. In High Sec the risk of flying Logistics has gone from no risk (neutral alts) to high risk (they will probably be primaried as soon as they go flashy). In Low Sec Logistics pilots will be taking the Sec status hits for ship and POD kills without getting any credit for them. I imagine it will not be long before I have to chose whether I rep someone who has killed a POD or tell them to try not to take too much damage for the next 15 minutes. As a DPS pilot I can choose not to kill PODs, but as a Logistics pilot my responsibility to my fleet is going to require I eat a lot of Criminal flags in Low Sec.
So if Logistics pilots are going to suffer the same penalties for PVP, should they not get some credit as well? I think that if you use a support module on a fleet member who has an active offensive module, then you should be listed as an aggressor toward the target of that offensive module and if that target dies you should be listed on the Kill Mail. After all, you are getting flagged for the act.
I have done most of my PVP in NPC Null Sec so I still have a +3 Sec status even though I have not done a mission in nine months. However I just joined a Low Sec PVP alliance and I intend to fly Logistics. This means that my Sec status will tank, and since I canGÇÖt reasonably chose not to participate in POD kills it means it will tank fast. This is the new cost of flying Logistics in Low Sec, and I can accept that. But it would be a lot easier to accept if I actually got credit for the kill. What really bothers me is what this is going to do to my kill board. My kill board is going to show nothing but Guardian and Scimitar losses, and all my ratios are going to go negative.
There are workarounds, but non of them make any tactical sense. I am not going to mount a gun on my Logistics ship as it would require me to drop a remote rep, and I am not going to drop a prop or an ECCM mod for a point or some other Ewar module. The most viable workaround is to use combat or Ewar drones, and assign them to one of my more aggressive fleet members. However, this is cumbersome, prone to drone loss, and is too much of a distraction when fighting through a gate camps while roaming. Trying to control combat drones yourself is even worse. You are likely to end up repping enemy ships while setting your drones on friendly targets.
There are many Logistics pilots who maintain that it is better to go full support and carry repair drones and I tend to fall into this camp. Particularly with Shield Logistics ships, where I think it is a good idea to carry some armour rep drones to repair any damage that may have gotten through the shields, since armour does not self generate as shields do between engagements.
When using a support module (remote rep, energy transfer, remote sensor booster, etc.) on a ship with an active offensive module, you should be added to the kill mail if the target of the offensive module dies. It is about time that Logistics pilots start getting some credit and recognition for their contribution to PVP.
Assist your drones to a combat pilot, every logi has a drone bay. Every logistics pilot flying thats worth his salt has long ago learned how to get on mails while still doing his job but you, and now you want to be added to a killmail for doing NOTHING to the target at all.
Learn game mechanics and work it out.
|

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3927
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 20:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:You still burn a lock slot (or more!) controlling hostile drones Not if you let somebody else control them. ;) Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |

JC Anderson
Noir. Black Legion.
903
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 21:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
In Noir we have it setup so that Logi and/or Scouts can add their names to individual killmails. This of course does not effect the KB stats as this is for contract payout purposes only. Since our pilots get paid at the end of a contract based on the kills they were part of, we had to have a way for Logi and Scouts to be calculated into the end tally so that they can receive the ISK they are entitled to.
I think its basically a modified version of the same code used to add comments onto individual kills. |
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