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When will Logistics pilots get on Kill Mails?

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Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 27	Posted - 2012.12.05 13:39:00 - [1] - Quote Now that PVP penalties have been applied to Logistics and Support pilots, isnGÇÖt it about time the PVP rewards be applied to them as well? If a Logistics pilot reps a Suspect ship it gets flagged as Suspect and takes a Sec status hit accordingly. In High Sec the risk of flying Logistics has gone from no risk (neutral alts) to high risk (they will probably be primaried as soon as they go flashy). In Low Sec Logistics pilots will be taking the Sec status hits for ship and POD kills without getting any credit for them. I imagine it will not be long before I have to chose whether I rep someone who has killed a POD or tell them to try not to take too much damage for the next 15 minutes. As a DPS pilot I can choose not to kill PODs, but as a Logistics pilot my responsibility to my fleet is going to require I eat a lot of Criminal flags in Low Sec. So if Logistics pilots are going to suffer the same penalties for PVP, should they not get some credit as well? I think that if you use a support module on a fleet member who has an active offensive module, then you should be listed as an aggressor toward the target of that offensive module and if that target dies you should be listed on the Kill Mail. After all, you are getting flagged for the act. I have done most of my PVP in NPC Null Sec so I still have a +3 Sec status even though I have not done a mission in nine months. However I just joined a Low Sec PVP alliance and I intend to fly Logistics. This means that my Sec status will tank, and since I canGÇÖt reasonably chose not to participate in POD kills it means it will tank fast. This is the new cost of flying Logistics in Low Sec, and I can accept that. But it would be a lot easier to accept if I actually got credit for the kill. What really bothers me is what this is going to do to my kill board. My kill board is going to show nothing but Guardian and Scimitar losses. There are workarounds, but non of them make any tactical sense. I am not going to mount a gun on my Logistics ship as it would require me to drop a remote rep, and I am not going to drop a prop or an ECCM mod for a point or some other Ewar module. The most viable workaround is to use combat or Ewar drones, and assign them to one of my more aggressive fleet members. However, this is cumbersome, prone to drone loss, and is too much of a distraction when fighting through a gate camps while roaming. Trying to control combat drones yourself is even worse. You are likely to end up repping enemy ships while setting your drones on friendly targets. There are many Logistics pilots who maintain that it is better to go full support and carry repair drones and I tend to fall into this camp. Particularly with Shield Logistics ships, where I think it is a good idea to carry some armour rep drones to repair any damage that may have gotten through the shields, since armour does not self generate as shields do between engagements. When using a support module (remote rep, energy transfer, remote sensor buster, etc.) on a ship with an active offensive module, you should be added to the kill mail if the target of the offensive module dies. It is about time that Logistics pilots start getting some credit and recognition for their contribution to PVP.
Joseph Dreadloch Dread Space Inc. Core.Impulse 94	Posted - 2012.12.05 13:48:00 - [2] - Quote Good question. I feel like this is one of the largest oversights still in the game. Right up there with the local channel.
Rordan D'Kherr Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 228	Posted - 2012.12.05 13:52:00 - [3] - Quote I am a logistics pilot and I understand the "issue", but I don't see a killmail (which is only public out of game) as a reward for pvp. _______________________________________ Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
JC Anderson Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 787	Posted - 2012.12.05 13:53:00 - [4] - Quote This was already brought up by CCP at FANFEST and they did confirm it will be happening. I'm actually surprised it wasn't in Retribution.
Cid Tazer The Green Cross Against ALL Anomalies 9	Posted - 2012.12.05 13:56:00 - [5] - Quote I think the problem that CCP is running in to with this is that support module usage is not logged into the same pool of data as offensive modules which creates problems when trying to pull the kill report. (Reason I think this is because it doesn't show up in the combat log who I repaired.) I don't think this is something that can't be overcome, but I don't think it is as easy as just joining two database tables together.
Lipbite Express Hauler 257	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:07:00 - [6] - Quote I guess logis in killmails will be coded right after ability to switch pilots without re-launching game. On a serious note I believe abundance of newly re-created cheap T1 logi cruisers and frigates will result in escalation of this function as priority and it will be available during spring or summer.
Desya Dakken No Ducks Allowed 2	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:12:00 - [7] - Quote Tl;dr MAH KILLBOARD STATS
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 27	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:30:00 - [8] - Quote Rordan D'Kherr wrote: I am a logistics pilot and I understand the "issue", but I don't see a killmail (which is only public out of game) as a reward for pvp. The new kill mails can be dragged and dropped into chat for others to open, so it is public in game now too.
Kookman Bastion 437 0	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:40:00 - [9] - Quote Desya Dakken wrote: Tl;dr MAH KILLBOARD STATS
Chandaris Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 111	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:41:00 - [10] - Quote It's called a whoreing gun/drone.. Learn to love it. Also to make up for it, in our alliance at least loot goes to logi pilots who didn't (or couldn't due to fitting restrictions) ***** on mails http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31448
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 27	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:46:00 - [11] - Quote Lipbite wrote: I guess logis in killmails will be coded right after ability to switch pilots without re-launching game. On a serious note I believe abundance of newly re-created cheap T1 logi cruisers and frigates will result in escalation of this function as priority and it will be available during spring or summer. That is a good point. Currently it takes so much training to get into Logistics that Logistics pilots have somewhat come to terms with the fact that they donGÇÖt get credit before they start actually flying Logistics. Many pilots with the skills to fly logi chose to fly DPS instead for the glory, so the people who actually do fly logi tend to be the givers, the ones who want to contribute to the success of their Corp or Alliance and are willing to make personal sacrifices to do so. It has been easy for CCP to ignore these guys as they are not the squeaky wheel types. However the average T1 Support pilot is going to be new pilots who think GÇ£hay, I should try LogiGÇ¥ and jump in a T1 Support ship and then go GÇ£what do you mean I donGÇÖt get on kill mails? This Sucks!GÇ¥ I expect these new T1 Support pilots to vastly outnumber the old experienced masochistic self sacrificing Logistics pilots, so the uproar on this issue will probably will raise its priority at last.
Schalac Apocalypse Reign 183	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:49:00 - [12] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269512#post2269512 You get to be on KMs when you are flagged as a WT when you rep someone that is at war with another person. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 27	Posted - 2012.12.05 14:54:00 - [13] - Quote Desya Dakken wrote: Tl;dr MAH KILLBOARD STATS Yes, that is the short version. Of course I expect you would be just as quick to use a link to my killboard to undermine my credibility if I posted an opinion on a PVP subject, so I think it is reasonable to want it to accurately represent my involvement in PVP rather than just showing my losses.
pussnheels The Fiction Factory 760	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:00:00 - [14] - Quote Rordan D'Kherr wrote: I am a logistics pilot and I understand the "issue", but I don't see a killmail (which is only public out of game) as a reward for pvp. same here the thanks from my corp/ alliance mates and the knowledge that us logi pilots do make a difference is more than enough I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 28	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:04:00 - [15] - Quote Schalac wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269512#post2269512 You get to be on KMs when you are flagged as a WT when you rep someone that is at war with another person. I followed your link and it looks like you have discovered an oversight that needs to be fixed, but do you happen to have a link to support what you said in this thread? I have not participated in any wars, so I am not as familiar with the mechanics, but if Logi are getting on kill mails for repping in that situation I would like to know more.
Zack Korth The Deneveh Collective High Rollers 17	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:06:00 - [16] - Quote no pew pew = no kill mails = no glory, and since i DO see a killmail as a PvP reward, it makes me wonder why anyone flys them.
Desya Dakken No Ducks Allowed 3	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:09:00 - [17] - Quote Zack Korth wrote: no pew pew = no kill mails = no glory, and since i DO see a killmail as a PvP reward, it makes me wonder why anyone flys them. Because some people don't care about killmails as much as others do - thus the needs of the many overcome the needs of the few.
Schalac Apocalypse Reign 183	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:17:00 - [18] - Quote Renier Gaden wrote: Schalac wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269512#post2269512 You get to be on KMs when you are flagged as a WT when you rep someone that is at war with another person. I followed your link and it looks like you have discovered an oversight that needs to be fixed, but do you happen to have a link to support what you said in this thread? I have not participated in any wars, so I am not as familiar with the mechanics, but if Logi are getting on kill mails for repping in that situation I would like to know more. HUH? What I was saying is if they put logi on a kill mail, then they better fix the neutral logi not becoming aggressed when they rep a WT you are fighting. As it stands right now a WT can sit there and have 9000 neutral reps and as long as he has no flags you can't shoot the logi that is repping him. I feel that is a massive oversight on the way aggression works with the flags and war target mechanics. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
The Logi The Scope Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:29:00 - [19] - Quote Lipbite wrote: I guess logis in killmails will be coded right after ability to switch pilots without re-launching game. This is my biggest problem with EVE. I ***** about it literally all the time. This is a feature that has been standard for over 10 years in almost every MMO (let alone one that advocates the use of alts as hard as EVE does). People have told me EVE used to have this feature, and it was removed years ago because it was buggy. That makes it even worse.
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 29	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:31:00 - [20] - Quote pussnheels wrote: Rordan D'Kherr wrote: I am a logistics pilot and I understand the "issue", but I don't see a killmail (which is only public out of game) as a reward for pvp. same here the thanks from my corp/ alliance mates and the knowledge that us logi pilots do make a difference is more than enough Very noble! Without people like you there would be very few Logistics pilots. Of course it also explains why this has never been a big issue for CCP in the past. I used to fly with a guy who had a meddle presented to him by Rooks & Kings for his Logistics work during the Ironclad era. Now that is the kind of accolades from a Corp or Alliance that stays with you! That is something you can put on your resume if things change and you have to look for a new Corp. Unfortunately not many Corporations or Alliances use meddles in a meaningful way. Praise and appreciation of Corp mates is fleeting if there is no record of your contribution.
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 29	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:35:00 - [21] - Quote Schalac wrote: Renier Gaden wrote: Schalac wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269512#post2269512 You get to be on KMs when you are flagged as a WT when you rep someone that is at war with another person. I followed your link and it looks like you have discovered an oversight that needs to be fixed, but do you happen to have a link to support what you said in this thread? I have not participated in any wars, so I am not as familiar with the mechanics, but if Logi are getting on kill mails for repping in that situation I would like to know more. HUH? What I was saying is if they put logi on a kill mail, then they better fix the neutral logi not becoming aggressed when they rep a WT you are fighting. As it stands right now a WT can sit there and have 9000 neutral reps and as long as he has no flags you can't shoot the logi that is repping him. I feel that is a massive oversight on the way aggression works with the flags and war target mechanics. Oh, I see. Yes, I completely agree with you! If you rep a Suspect you get a Suspect flag, but someone who is in legal combat is not a Suspect. Definitely an oversight. They need to do something about that.
BadAssMcKill Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army 8	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:36:00 - [22] - Quote Flying logi is its own reward (also drones for getting onto mails are the best) Starships were meant to fly~
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 29	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:41:00 - [23] - Quote The Logi wrote: Lipbite wrote: I guess logis in killmails will be coded right after ability to switch pilots without re-launching game. This is my biggest problem with EVE. I ***** about it literally all the time. This is a feature that has been standard for over 10 years in almost every MMO (let alone one that advocates the use of alts as hard as EVE does). People have told me EVE used to have this feature, and it was removed years ago because it was buggy. That makes it even worse. I agree 100%. It is off topic though. If anyone wants to comment further on the need to switch characters without having to re-log, can you make a new thread and just post a link here for those who are interested? Edit: Also bonus points for your name.
The Djentleman Paulson Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 83	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:47:00 - [24] - Quote WHY YOU CARE I FLY LOGI NO KILLMAILS I DONT CARE SATISFACTION OF SAVING FRIENDS IS ENOUGH
Inquisitor Kitchner Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes 564	Posted - 2012.12.05 15:49:00 - [25] - Quote Killboards are what is important in EVE, right guys? "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 32	Posted - 2012.12.05 16:29:00 - [26] - Quote Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: Killboards are what is important in EVE, right guys? Says the guy without a single Logistics loss on his killboard and a 4:1 success ratio. If killboards are not important, why donGÇÖt YOU fly Logistics?
The Djentleman Paulson Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 83	Posted - 2012.12.05 16:35:00 - [27] - Quote Renier Gaden wrote: Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: Killboards are what is important in EVE, right guys? Says the guy without a single Logistics loss on his killboard and a 4:1 success ratio. If killboards are not important, why donGÇÖt YOU fly Logistics? HE NOT NEED FLY LOGI I FLY LOGI HE DOES PEW PEW CALLED "SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP" DO YOU EVEN BASIC EDUCATION
Renier Gaden Marvin the Martian's Militia Anarchy. 33	Posted - 2012.12.05 16:46:00 - [28] - Quote The Djentleman Paulson wrote: WHY YOU CARE I FLY LOGI NO KILLMAILS I DONT CARE SATISFACTION OF SAVING FRIENDS IS ENOUGH Do you now? I waded through the first 10 pages of your ship losses and did not see a single Logistics ship listed. Am I to suppose that the other Logi in your Alliance only rep you when you are flying Logistics? It looks to me like you are a DPS pilot Trolling me with no credentials to back up your statement. I am not saying that there are not legitimate Logi pilots who share the sentiments you are espousing. I am just saying that I think you are only pretending to be one of those pilots in order to Troll me.
Eli Green The Arrow Project 90	Posted - 2012.12.05 16:50:00 - [29] - Quote Renier Gaden wrote: The Djentleman Paulson wrote: WHY YOU CARE I FLY LOGI NO KILLMAILS I DONT CARE SATISFACTION OF SAVING FRIENDS IS ENOUGH Do you now? I waded through the first 10 pages of your ship losses and did not see a single Logistics ship listed. Am I to suppose that the other Logi in your Alliance only rep you when you are flying Logistics? It looks to me like you are a DPS pilot Trolling me with no credentials to back up your statement. I am not saying that there are not legitimate Logi pilots who share the sentiments you are espousing. I am just saying that I think you are only pretending to be one of those pilots in order to Troll me. because killboards are 100% the best representation of any activities performed in eve amirite? wumbo
Altaen Calamitous-Intent 16	Posted - 2012.12.05 16:52:00 - [30] - Quote As much as I would love it if every dude I fly with saw the fight as reward enough...itfeelsbad when some of your most valuable fleet mates get left out of the killboard celebration for a good slaughter. Also, almost every pilot in my corp is a Logi 5 pilot...does this mean we always get enough logi when we need it? Of course not. People want killmails.

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