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Brechan Skene
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Posted - 2005.05.08 06:18:00 -
[1]
I have a skill book given to me by an agent as an agent offer. I have been looking for what it actually does. All I have is the description of the skill. What I would like to know is what does it effect and by how much does it effect it by? At the moment I have no idea what it is really capable of doing.
Brechan
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Ozoneluke
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Posted - 2005.05.08 07:14:00 -
[2]
It gives you more LP from kill mission agents. A bonus per lvl.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.08 09:26:00 -
[3]
Sell it on escrow for 400mil, some dull ******** will buy it 
Death to the Galante |
Aeon Yakati
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Posted - 2005.05.08 10:23:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Aeon Yakati on 08/05/2005 10:23:03
 Originally by: Jim Steele
Sell it on escrow for 400mil, some dull ******** will buy it
I bought one for that amount. If you'd think for a moment you will see that this skill can take weeks off the time needed to get that multibillion faction BS. And with the weeks you just saved you can easily generate new isk to compensate for the invested 400mil.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.08 10:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
And with the weeks you just saved you can easily generate new isk to compensate for the invested 400mil.
That is true but as these only need 15k lp's + 10mil id rather just do noob missions for a while.
Death to the Galante |
Archon MasterVodo
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Posted - 2005.05.08 10:32:00 -
[6]
You are a sucker Aeon..
a 15K LP offer is not worth 400m no matter what it does.
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Aeon Yakati
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Posted - 2005.05.08 10:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Archon MasterVodo
You are a sucker Aeon..
a 15K LP offer is not worth 400m no matter what it does.
And you're a sucker at simple economics. Here have a read 
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.05.08 12:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Originally by: Archon MasterVodo
You are a sucker Aeon..
a 15K LP offer is not worth 400m no matter what it does.
And you're a sucker at simple economics. Here have a read
Yeah but you forget that a lot of the demand in Eve consists of morons having no clue how much things are actually worth.
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2005.05.08 15:07:00 -
[9]
Here is some economics:
Training the skill to lvl 5 (which takes approx. a week since it's rank 1) give +25% LP per mission.
1 LP is worth approx 3k isk if you take only the good offers.
If you get on average 10k LP per day, you will get 12.5k LP per day with the skill.
That's 2.5k LP extra per day, valued at 3k isk each, making a 7.5 mil value.
So the 400 mil investment will pay off in approx. 2 months.
That's better than most other investments out there - but only for really hardcore agent runners.
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Archon MasterVodo
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Posted - 2005.05.08 15:12:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Archon MasterVodo on 08/05/2005 15:13:30
Ok.. now do the calculations to get 15,000 LP from a standard level 4 agent.
You can do something like say, a Massive Attack mission in about an hour for 3000 LP, give or take. Maybe a 1000 LP mission in 1/2 an hour... so, let's just say 15 hours of mission running ... maybe a week tops if you only play a few hours a day.... add a few more missions and a few more days to wait for the actual offer to come through, while you're farming another agent for the same thing.
Yeah.. that's what I thought... If you're paying 400m for this skill... you're a sucker.
Math tops economic theory.
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.05.08 17:19:00 -
[11]
I side with Archon here.
Others can try to give an economic justification, I just think theres one born every minute
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Aeon Yakati
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Posted - 2005.05.08 18:06:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aeon Yakati on 08/05/2005 18:54:58
Originally by: Archon MasterVodo
Edited by: Archon MasterVodo on 08/05/2005 15:13:30
Ok.. now do the calculations to get 15,000 LP from a standard level 4 agent.
You can do something like say, a Massive Attack mission in about an hour for 3000 LP, give or take. Maybe a 1000 LP mission in 1/2 an hour... so, let's just say 15 hours of mission running ... maybe a week tops if you only play a few hours a day.... add a few more missions and a few more days to wait for the actual offer to come through, while you're farming another agent for the same thing.
Yeah.. that's what I thought... If you're paying 400m for this skill... you're a sucker.
Math tops economic theory.
I'm not really sure as to why I'm actually bothering about enlightening someone like you (i.e. someone with your prejudices and attitude) but here we go.
As regard to your example. Ever heard of opportunity costs? Simply put it stands for lost income or lost profits. Let's say it indeed takes 15 hours of mission running getting that skill offer. That's 15 hours you could have otherwise spent working on your main agent. With the skill at level 5 I gain approximatelly 6k LP for each mission. My missions take on average 30 minutes to complete, that's two missions an hour. After 15 hours of agentrunning I will have completed 30 missions, each yielding me 6k LP, resulting in a net gain of 180.000 LP. That's roughly a third of most faction battleship offers. Now in my particular instance I'm working for a pirate faction whose battleships are assumed to be worth twice their empire 'counterparts' because of the relatively inaccessible and insecure space (0.0) these factions are based in. Considering most empire battleships go for at least 2B I think it's safe to say that choosing to buy the skill at 400m and instead spending the time working on the battleship will give you the best results, by far. That's my point of view as a buyer.
Now to return to the point of my original post: In a free market prices are determined by the supply vs demand curve. Like it or not. If there's only 10 skillbooks available but 5000 players would like to get their hands on one, prices will go up until a balance is found. No matter how much you curse at the sellers and buyers, this is how the system works. If you don't grasp this concept, then I suggest you refrain from interacting with the market.
And lastly, remember that this is just a game. People will not always make the most rational choises in here (f.ex. look at the alliance part of this forum, you can count the number of wars that have been based on sound arguments, other than just having PVP fun, on one hand). People may rather just focus on getting the most out of their spare time, having a great time in their limited time. If someone has a fat wallet and he wants something affordable in particular, why shouldn't he go for it? And even if it makes him bankrupt, so what? It's only a game. Don't be rude if another's playing style does not match yours. Things may not always seem what they appear to be (as your just colourfully illustrated).
Have fun.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.08 18:43:00 -
[13]
at 15k + 10 mil why not just use the skill, then do loads of missions with different agents and stop at 15k then get loads of the milatary connections skills and sell them and then buy a faction BS. It will probibly take less time..
Anyway i supose i can understand your resoning behind it and I guess you are loaded so who cares if you help someone out by paying over inflated prices, its your isk and its only a game, i still think your mad tho! 
Death to the Galante |
Aeon Yakati
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Posted - 2005.05.08 19:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jim Steele
at 15k + 10 mil why not just use the skill, then do loads of missions with different agents and stop at 15k then get loads of the milatary connections skills and sell them and then buy a faction BS. It will probibly take less time..
In empire picking a different agent and moving there is no big deal but in 0.0 it's not quite as easy, and especially in the particular, contested region I live in. Then there's still a chance in 20 (?) that you might actually get the offer. That combined with the small number of accessible agents makes it more profitable for me to stick with just this one agent.
Quote:
Anyway i supose i can understand your resoning behind it and I guess you are loaded so who cares if you help someone out by paying over inflated prices, its your isk and its only a game, i still think your mad tho!
I encourage you to actually read posts next time you hit the reply button  I'm not losing over this. In fact, having bought the skill, even at 400m, enables me to generate more isk over time than if I were to work for the offer myself.
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Archon MasterVodo
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Posted - 2005.05.09 07:30:00 -
[15]
Aeon, I do owe you a small apology.
You are correct that the logistics are a bit different if you operate only in 0.0 space.
Agents there (the few) give many more loyalty points than their empire counterparts, so the benefits are increased by the skillbook even more than it would in empire. Also, you are correct that farming multiple agents is not realistic for the most part in 0.0.
In the long run, if you stretch time out indefinately, you could pay billions for the skill and still "pay it off".
If you have no intention of using any other agent but one, and only using that agent to continuously get faction ships with the only purpose to sell them, then of course, paying for the book is your only option.
Since you have 0 alternative agents and unwillingness to use the one you do have for farming the book, your finite supply of the books makes it so you must buy one, and accept any cost put to you.
In Empire, since there is an abundance of agents, empire agent runners do not have to accept insane prices for the book.
So, I retract the sucker statement for you in your particular situation and 0.0 agent runners in general. However, the sucker appelation still applies for empire agent runners.
Idiots with too much money that will spend any amount on anything don't count in these examples of course.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.09 10:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
In fact, having bought the skill, even at 400m, enables me to generate more isk over time than if I were to work for the offer myself.
I still think you are mad
Seriously though your logic does make sense, just 400mil is alot for me to invest so i would have probibly spent the money on ships to blow up or something rather than the skill. I guess having money to invest and knowing you can make it back (which im sure you can in 0.0) helps alot.
Good luck getting your faction BS by the way, out of curiosity which one you aiming for? I like the look of the nightmare myself.
Death to the Galante |
Ravenal
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Posted - 2005.05.09 10:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Archon MasterVodo
Edited by: Archon MasterVodo on 08/05/2005 15:13:30
Ok.. now do the calculations to get 15,000 LP from a standard level 4 agent.
You can do something like say, a Massive Attack mission in about an hour for 3000 LP, give or take. Maybe a 1000 LP mission in 1/2 an hour... so, let's just say 15 hours of mission running ... maybe a week tops if you only play a few hours a day.... add a few more missions and a few more days to wait for the actual offer to come through, while you're farming another agent for the same thing.
Yeah.. that's what I thought... If you're paying 400m for this skill... you're a sucker.
Math tops economic theory.
got the offer.. trained it... now getting ALOT more lp's :) - hell, it only takes about 4 missions to get 15k lp's from a lvl4 mission...
...new sig coming up
Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it. |
Corb
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Posted - 2005.05.09 17:18:00 -
[18]
I too have received a book similar to this one called "Trade Connections". I decided to learn this one despite my buddies telling me to sale it. I'm impressed at the LP increase thus far. Of course some of the Massive Courier missions take a while to do, but I've already seen a considerable increase in LPs'.
If you are an agent runner, then finding a book for your agent class is a must. It is an Eggcellent investment. I agree with Aeon for paying what he paid. I can see the investment that he made. Time is money in this game.
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Valerien
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Posted - 2005.05.10 14:30:00 -
[19]
Some of you people are disregarding an important fact. While it's not difficult to get to 15k LP, the skill book offer is rare as @%$*. Since this patch released these books (what, 3 weekes ago now?) I've gotten as many agents a sI can up to 15k LP to try and farm as many of these skill books as possible. I had the idea it would be so easy, just get to 15k LP and PRESTO! Skill book! Well sorry it does not go like that. I've had now over 40 agent offers and STILL I have not gotten a single skill book. Implants... implants... crap... more implants. No skill book. And then after a few times of declining offers (especially if you get more LP, say doing level 4 (I do not recommend trying to get this skill book with level 4 agent) because you have to do a new mission so that agent will offer again you will soon be out of the required LP range for that skill book offer. Then you gotta start all over.
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