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Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
144
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Posted - 2012.12.07 11:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Anneliese Pollard wrote:Void 0 wrote:Let me guess. You are flying a Tengu :D? No. Passive Rattlesnake. sentries
Sentries are sentries, drones are drones.
So don't confuse them.
Why ?
Because raven and other bs's can only use 3 sentry drones or less. |
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
45
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Posted - 2012.12.07 13:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Anneliese Pollard wrote:Void 0 wrote:Let me guess. You are flying a Tengu :D? No. Passive Rattlesnake. sentries Sentries are sentries, drones are drones. So don't confuse them. Why ? Because raven and other bs's can only use 3 sentry drones or less.
by that logic heavy drones are heavy drones cause i cant fit one on my taranis your logic is medival at best |
Archa4 Badasaz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2012.12.07 14:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lilan Kahn wrote:Spc One wrote:Anneliese Pollard wrote:Void 0 wrote:Let me guess. You are flying a Tengu :D? No. Passive Rattlesnake. sentries Sentries are sentries, drones are drones. So don't confuse them. Why ? Because raven and other bs's can only use 3 sentry drones or less. by that logic heavy drones are heavy drones cause i cant fit one on my taranis your logic is medival at best
As I understood, he means, that usual BS's cannot use sentries to kill frigates effectively:
Quote:1) Target all frigates
2) Snipe most, if not all with sentries
3) If frigs get up close and web me, pull sentries, release lights
4) When frigs are dead, pull lights, release sentreis
5) Cruisers, BCs, BSes, in that order
If only few drones make it to the range, where you can fight them effectively - then it's no problem. When you have something like 75m drone bay, and at least 50m should be light drones (5 to fight and 5 spares) then you cannot also fit enough sentries to kill them at range. You have 3 options:
1. While frigates are far, use light drones on them and hope you can pull them back as soon as they start to take damage;
2. Additionally to 1. use your weapons at them.
3. Wait till drones get up close and then use lights more safely.
But if the redeploy bug is fixed, and nothing else is done, and there is something like 10-15 frigates in a single pocket - even at close range you'll have problems with saving drones. |
Akuma Tsukai
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2012.12.08 00:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mund Richard wrote:
But seriously, try handling missions like you should sleeper AI, it works.
I do. But shooting frigs with cruise missiles from my raven while my domis, geddons, megas and rattles are gathering dust in the hungar is wrong. |
Lebens
Executive Intervention
7
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Posted - 2012.12.08 01:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
I'm rather lucky that I own a navy scorp, high resists, dame damage as a standard raven and same drone bay, and 8 midslots.
I have found in most cases fitting a target painter causes the frigs to ignore my hammers while I let them loose on the frigs. a couple of cases though where even target painting has had no effect.
Each mission is different due to the composition of the individual rats, the lighter/cheaper frigate sized rats are set a bit differently than the mainjority of the frigs.
I myself do recommend runing a scorpion Navy issue, As iterated before, same DPS as a vanilla Raven, and resistance bonuses rather than a range bonus to missles, plus the 8 midslots don't hurt at all.
Overall I do agree that this was a mistake on CCP's part to change the AI like this and support that they need to fix it. |
Jason13 Anzomi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.12.08 03:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Given my belief that no CCP change will happen anytime in the foreseeable future, I'm in the process of trying to sell off my drone boats and investing about 6 wks in training up a T3 gun boat (boat and weapons = long skill training).
The track record so far is that CCP makes a change which screws up things. Then they'll spend months trying to tinker with it until enough people stop complaining. Or they'll stick to their guns until they finally issue a public apology and do a quick rewrite. Either way, don't expect any real changes for months to come.
As a result, I'm doing a total redesign of my skills (flush the heavy drone skill training time down the toilet) and playstyle (I loved drones, but I'm having to learn to not use drones). And in the process I'm starting to question whether to pay for the subscriptions (two accounts) I have due later this week.
Finish another few weeks of T3+gun skill training while killing time mining? Or drop Eve for 6 months (saving money and annoyance) and come back after they've tinkered enough to make the drone boats usable again? That, is the question. |
Akuma Tsukai
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2012.12.08 10:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:Given my belief that no CCP change will happen anytime in the foreseeable future, I'm in the process of trying to sell off my drone boats and investing about 6 wks in training up a T3 gun boat (boat and weapons = long skill training).
The major problem is, gun ships rely on drones as much as droneboats. Any form of EWAR disruption - and youre ****** (well unless ure in minnie space). Missiles are the only somewhat viable PVE choice atm, thx to FoF and track dis immunity. Or simply go WHoring, same monies for a less trouble lol  WHs became easier and better than missions  |
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
33
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Posted - 2012.12.08 11:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Akuma Tsukai wrote:Jason13 Anzomi wrote:Given my belief that no CCP change will happen anytime in the foreseeable future, I'm in the process of trying to sell off my drone boats and investing about 6 wks in training up a T3 gun boat (boat and weapons = long skill training).
The major problem is, gun ships rely on drones as much as droneboats. Any form of EWAR disruption - and youre ****** (well unless ure in minnie space). Missiles are the only somewhat viable PVE choice atm, thx to FoF and track dis immunity. Or simply go WHoring, same monies for a less trouble lol WHs became easier and better than missions
I agree that missiles could be a good choice, but the worst part is missiles have the Worst performance on missions.
There are at least 6 reasons why Guns are much better then Missiles.
Anyways I think the best way to avoid lots of problems on missions is to move to Minnie space.
While Angels take less damage, move fast and do some nice damage at close range, you actually CAN kill them.
"Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Broken Toys
25
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Posted - 2012.12.08 11:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeriose wrote:I have docked my CNR until further notice, after warping in "silence the informer" and get full room agro in the second room. I killed all the frigs after burning all my cap charges, with a deadspace booster.
I escaped in 25% armor.
Never more...
I'm sitting and watching, but the tengu seems the option here.
I lost my CNR after Worlds Colide when the whole room agroed me and 10 frigates warpscrambled me. It was a 6 minute long fight to lower the DPS until my CAP was dead and so was I. Such a situation was managable in the past, but now ....
Every time I pulled my drones out to kill the frigates they were webbed and killed. They lived for less than 30 seconds. At this point, drones are usless for PvE.
You were lucky.
I got a bit cocky and managed to lose Tengu last evening in angel-sansha worlds collide. Have not been running missions for ~3 months or so and just jumped in, first stage was as usual, second stage got full agro the second I got in and had 7 - 8 points of warp scram + webs on me. Would have been fine without the damn webs but ran out the shield a bit too fast with no speed and erverything on me. Managed to get most of the frigs down but all it takes is one point remaining with couple of webs and no shields left....
Well my own mistake ofc, thats how it happens if you get a bit too sure of your tank. After that did the second stage in spare Cerberus I had around and then switched to nighthawk for thew last stage - damn frigs sure do scram now a lot more than they did some months ago. Usually I used to get a point or two on me, now almost everyone capable of using point or web do so most of the time. Also - nighthawk can use 5 lights and damn frigs and cruisers are all over these the second you launch them - hell, I even had some BS to go after my drones in worlds collide, blocade and silence the informant. |
Mia Diva
Mia Diva Corp
0
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Posted - 2012.12.08 12:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Luckily I read this before I tried to do some missions in my Machariel..... To be honest by now I'm really fed up with CCP's policy of 'making changes just because of changes', and f'kin up something with EVERY new expansion they made, and throwing at us something, which is not changed but broken to this or that extend. Did they do any testing at all or what!? In my book what CCP is doing is sloppiness beyond comprehension, and they're doing this for years i.e. they simply don't learn. With such sloppiness must say I'm really surprised they're still afloat.
Expecting that now we all should -just because CCP f'ked it up again- to switch to missile boats is total idiotism and not seeing further than from your own nose. Not everyone have perfect missile skills, if at all! Not everyone flying Rattlesnakes or Tengus! Most mission runners are actually alts, mostly specialised in only one tech (guns, missiles etc). So what , should I now dump my Mach and start to train missile tech just because of CCP's incompetence to do things right? F'k that. |
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Akuma Tsukai
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2012.12.08 12:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:
I agree that missiles could be a good choice, but the worst part is missiles have the Worst performance on missions.
There are at least 6 reasons why Guns are much better then Missiles.
Anyways I think the best way to avoid lots of problems on missions is to move to Minnie space.
While Angels take less damage, move fast and do some nice damage at close range, you actually CAN kill them.
Well when a worst mission system becomes preffered for missions, that tells a lot about quality of this patch we got
Also i wonder what explorers ought to do now? Say, vs sanshas. 3/10 or 4/10. Track disrupted to hell, can hit a thing, cant use drones to get rid of TDers... Hmm, i imagine serps and guris arent much better :) |
Harland White
Circle of Fortune
61
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Posted - 2012.12.08 12:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Atossa Exior wrote:
As for room aggro, maybe CCP means for lvl 4's to be more group based that solo pimp bltized. The revamped T1 logis are looking better and better....
Thereby completely demolishing any possible profit made from highsec missions. Sure stinks of nullsec zealot over-representation in CCP and CSM. ******* typical. |
Alec Stacer
Raven's Flight
Nulli Legio
4
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Posted - 2012.12.08 14:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Void 0 wrote:Lost 7 TIER 2 drones in Angel Extravaganza, without doing the bonus room.
And yes I did pull them back, but with the incredibly clunky UI it takes ages.
I was aggroed by whole room instantly in several missions.
CCP never changes, whenever they relase something new its either totally broken or a bad idea. This is both.
Unless they plan to start selling Tier 3 cruisers for real money, then it would be a genius buisness move from them.
I fail to see the problem here. You can no longer faceroll your way though missions, you actually have to play smart and activily. SOUNDS LIKE A GAME FOR INTELLIGENT PEOPLE TO ME.
considering eve's rediculous learning curve, missions and plexes are way to easy. This is EXACTLY what we need. However, the full room agg needs to be adjusted, but the sleeper AI in all the rats is a HUGE leap in balencing AFK plexing. |
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
33
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Posted - 2012.12.08 14:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
Alec Stacer wrote:Void 0 wrote:Lost 7 TIER 2 drones in Angel Extravaganza, without doing the bonus room.
And yes I did pull them back, but with the incredibly clunky UI it takes ages.
I was aggroed by whole room instantly in several missions.
CCP never changes, whenever they relase something new its either totally broken or a bad idea. This is both.
Unless they plan to start selling Tier 3 cruisers for real money, then it would be a genius buisness move from them. I fail to see the problem here. You can no longer faceroll your way though missions, you actually have to play smart and activily. SOUNDS LIKE A GAME FOR INTELLIGENT PEOPLE TO ME. considering eve's rediculous learning curve, missions and plexes are way to easy. This is EXACTLY what we need. However, the full room agg needs to be adjusted, but the sleeper AI in all the rats is a HUGE leap in balencing AFK plexing.
Nope, This is EXACTLY what you need. We don't.
Also we don't need some nullbear like you posting here.
Try doing Silence The Informant and then come here babbling about being intelligent.
"Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |
Reverend Skarekrow
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.12.08 15:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
Harland White wrote:Atossa Exior wrote:
As for room aggro, maybe CCP means for lvl 4's to be more group based that solo pimp bltized. The revamped T1 logis are looking better and better....
Thereby completely demolishing any possible profit made from highsec missions. Sure stinks of nullsec zealot over-representation in CCP and CSM. ******* typical.
Considering that they took great pains to nerf the "off racial" damage types in high end plexes and left the off racial damage in the level fours with full room aggro to boot, I think you are absolutely correct.
Meh, plenty of other ways to make isk without bitter null-sec tears screaming for a nerf because someone dares to play in a manner they can't control.
Adapt or Quit. |
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