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scrooloose
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Posted - 2005.05.10 18:13:00 -
[1]
i know this has been discussed before but i want to get my point across.
theives should be punished as it is a crime its that simple, im not talking about ore thieves here as jetcan mining is "done at own risk", but im talking about kill missions.
ill create the scenario:
you are on a blockade mission and you are killing off rats, only to find some person is stealing your hard earned loot and you cant do anything to stop them, surely these are not jettisoned cans but should be labled "loot cans", and restricted to the player or gang, or if not loot thieving should be considered as a crime and a suitable security status hit should be issued, so if they continue to steal there security status drops and concord then offer no assistance if they are under attack.
EVE is meant to be a real life online experience, and in real life i would to think such crimes would not go unpunished.
i have seen EVE veterans and newcomers leave due to loot thieves, people who where my friends 
i think the inclusion of theivery punishment would set a new challenge, to both thieves and legit players alike, thieves would spend time avoiding concord like full pirates do, whilst legit players can exact revenge on the players who have stolen from them.
please feel free to message any comments about this (for or against), i am open to both sides of the arguement.
scrooloose over and out
be nice -discordia
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.05.10 18:37:00 -
[2]
Petition Petition. Mission spawns are moderately randomized to prevent this sort of thing, and if someone is camping a mission spawn, the GMs may percieve it as an exploit. The only way to be sure is to ask a GM - thus, petition - but if it isn't an exploit yet, I bet it will be considered one later.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Dr Cball
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Posted - 2005.05.10 18:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dr Cball on 10/05/2005 18:55:56
how about this as a blanket set up on any CC that is not secure:
cc's from jettisoned or loot drops, have a time limit for being closed to all except the 'owner'. (owner being the player that jettisoned or blew up the ship that dropped teh cc)
cc can not be opened for removing or adding items by anyone other then the original 'owner' for the set time, then it becomes community property, and can be opened and items put in and taken out by anyone.
Ore theft would drop, not due to the in ability to open the cans by the thieves, but due to no one but the owner being able to open the can during its 'locked' period. Loot theft too. (thieves can open it after the 'locked out' time, if the miner chooses to leave the can in place for a hauler)
...miners would be forced to either use scc's or wait, and know others can take what they want when the can is community property.
Loot cans, there for the mission runner for a set time. This would stop the loss of the missions 'goal' items.
cans dropped when your ship blows, can only be opened by the player that blew up your ship during the 'lock out'(gankers would have to open the can personaly). This would stop the gate campers from using ooc players to collect the loot from the ganking.
Would need some tweeking of the idea I am sure, but overall it has the potential to stop either side from whining about it being unfair, while silencing the ore theft whiners. 
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Koda
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Posted - 2005.05.10 19:16:00 -
[4]
Putting missions on the gates like that is a little lame. This could be prevented by moving them.
Still, its not as if the high sec missions spawns are dropping Arb Sieges...
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.05.10 20:25:00 -
[5]
Please remain respectful in your dealing with others at all time, that includes on the forums
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Nastylicious
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Posted - 2005.05.11 00:12:00 -
[6]
Well, I think Dr Cball has some good ideas to prevent certain things. But is that what we really want? Having no risk with mining and doing missions such as the "Blockade". I imagine that is the only mission that a possible loot-thief can really get to. If there are others please let me know if I'm ignorant.
I don't like ore-thieves, loot-thieves or any thief for that matter. But they are around, and I'd like to have it that way, that makes my game more enjoyable.
I've been in the situation that some have stolen my loot at "Blockade" missions. I get mad at it, but I usually convo the person and ask if he has to take my loot?
At times the person feels he does something wrong and sometimes even return the loot in a jetcan. Other times he/she is just himself saying: "Yeah, it's anyones cans, you don't own them".
I can only deal with it and race for the cans.
I don't know if any typical level of missions has made you post this, but certainly level IV ones are more attractive since they may hold better loot then lower level ones.
But of all my missions I've taken the "Blockade" isn't a common one. If I get it, I get the bounty from the rats, the reward and standing from the agent, and maybe the loot droppings. It's an extra adrenaline kick if someone else is in the vicinity of my overview while doing it, more challenging.
Nice post though and I totally understand your concerns about it.
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H0ttie
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Posted - 2005.05.11 02:10:00 -
[7]
dont do missions in empire?
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.05.11 04:30:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Koda
Putting missions on the gates like that is a little lame. This could be prevented by moving them.
Still, its not as if the high sec missions spawns are dropping Arb Sieges...
I've picked up Arb sieges in empire missions
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.05.11 06:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: MutationZ
Originally by: Koda
Putting missions on the gates like that is a little lame. This could be prevented by moving them.
Still, its not as if the high sec missions spawns are dropping Arb Sieges...
I've picked up Arb sieges in empire missions
Actually quite a few months ago now I stole an arb siege from a NPC some mission runners pwnd at a gate 
Hmmm stealing be lame ? mebbe ... But well... 40mill sat right in front of me 
Typherin
Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Rodge
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Posted - 2005.05.11 12:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: scrooloose
i think the inclusion of theivery punishment would set a new challenge, to both thieves and legit players alike, thieves would spend time avoiding concord like full pirates do, whilst legit players can exact revenge on the players who have stolen from them.
Concord does give too much protection at the minute. If you have a suitable complaint, the devs need to balanace all eventualities and not just rush in the fix as you would like it.
I'll give an example. I know a lot of people who do agent missions. I also know a lot of people who don't bother picking up the cans. For example, guys in our corp are currently doing level 1-3 missions to get a new level 4 agent.
So, when they finish a mission, they just leave the cans where they are. They don't care about them, they're not worth picking up.
Now, loads of cans near a gate (for example). Random new guy comes along in his new ship, sees all the cans and goes towards them to see what's there. Opens one, takes out an item, Concord blows him to bits. Not really fair on him, is it? He didn't know he was "stealing".
Another example. I was flying through Empire last week (true story). I was approaching a gate in my super slow ship and went past a can (no-one else near the gate). I opened the can as I passed and there was a nice named 100mn MWD in it. Of course, I scooped it and continued on. Should I be shot for lifting from a random can at a gate?
I don't think that Concord should interfere at all, though the case for maybe a partial criminal flag could be introduced (where the person who killed the rat can shoot at the "thief" and he can shoot back if fired upon).
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2005.05.11 13:53:00 -
[11]
Add to those complaints the "crime" of killing someone elses mission rats. This has been a problem in high traffic systems like Inoue where a number of times the mission has been right outside the station.
Get a misson, Get outside and start killing NPCs, someone comes along and pops your rats and steals your cans, Go back tell your agent your done.... You get 500k plus a pile of light missiles and the gang sat outside camping get a couple mill and the loot.
Yes I could War Dec / petition but its a real PITA
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Hmmm I need a Sig |
Pablos Ine
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Posted - 2005.05.11 14:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: scrooloose
theives should be punished as it is a crime its that simple, im not talking about ore thieves here as jetcan mining is "done at own risk", but im talking about kill missions.
ill create the scenario:
you are on a blockade mission and you are killing off rats, only to find some person is stealing your hard earned loot and you cant do anything to stop them, surely these are not jettisoned cans
I agree with your sentiment, but I fail to see the diff between ore thieves and loot thieves.
What you seem to be saying is its fine to steal ore but not YOUR loot.
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Bonaventure Augustine
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Posted - 2005.05.11 16:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dr Cball
Edited by: Dr Cball on 10/05/2005 18:55:56
cc's from jettisoned or loot drops, have a time limit for being closed to all except the 'owner'. (owner being the player that jettisoned or blew up the ship that dropped teh cc)
I thought about this whole proposal, but I don't think it will change anything. There are players who will be honorable and there are those that will be greedy. No amount of artificial tweaking will change that, both sides will exist and will play in their own style. You'll just end up changing the game over and over trying to find a solution that doesn't exist.
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JaRoSWE
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Posted - 2005.05.11 18:56:00 -
[14]
Well, reading your views on this topic makes it hard to make a simple conclusion.
I still agree totally that it's unfair that I can't touch the ore thief.
He can do me wrong AND be protected but I'm attacked if I defend myself.... 
So I can't see the harm in locking cans for the owner (and his gang) and if he doesn't get them within, say an hour, it's free loot.
What could possibly go wrong with that?
Doesn't feel fair that you need to set your sec. rating down because your defending you own stuff.
I'm 100% for free hunt on the thiefs!
Pirates take their chances but we can at least defend us from them and hunt them down.
Think I got it all...
Have a nice EVE life
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scrooloose
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Posted - 2005.05.11 22:32:00 -
[15]
there are some good suggestions here.
i have petitioned to ccp and they did reply to me it sounds as though they know there is a problem and are trying to fix it.
my message goes along the lines of, if someone steals from your cargo container they will be criminally flagged towards that player so feel free to start blasting thieves 
this should make it a little more interesting
payback is here
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.05.11 23:59:00 -
[16]
Get your sorry asses out of hi-sec if you want to shoot lewt thieves .. 
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GinandTonic
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Posted - 2005.05.12 00:49:00 -
[17]
Way i see it is that two issues get confused here. Jetcan mining is something you choose to do. Easy and cheap and once in a while it blows up in your face. Its a borderline exploit anyway so i've no sympathy, tho its happened to me and i was not a happy bunny.
Loot thievery in high sec is a different thing, but not an easy one to know what to do about. It shouldnt be a crime ccp kill people for, and a degree of blagging keeps us all on our toes - just like life. However having someone rob you in high sec and hiding behind ccp where there is nothing you can do since its some b*%$& alt smacktalking over local denies ANY payback. Not like this guy is ever going to be out in low sec where you can bet some payback.
In the real world if you leave something on the street people can take it, fair enough. You cant attack them or the police will want to have a cosey chat. But when you move house people cant take your stuff from the pavement, with their faces hidden, shouting abuse and get the police to guard them while they do it.
There needs to be an element of blagging - othwise go play some nice fluffy game - but to have an invincible army mindlessly protecting idiots seems to go too far the other way.
CCP judgement of Solomon time, earn our subs...
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GinandTonic
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Posted - 2005.05.12 01:11:00 -
[18]
Idea came to me just as I was reading that over. How about whenever someone opens someone elses can, the owner (or corp member) of the can can shoot at them for a VERY brief window - say 30 seconds.
If they dont return fire then the window closes.
This would stop cynical hide-behind-ccp theft without allowing you to do whatever you wanted.
Like the real world you are permitted to use reasonable force?
It would mean that you can express ownership over a given can without undermining the security aspect of empire space? So some blagging would still be possible, but ccp would not offer unlimited unquestioning protection to the blaggers. Its a dangerous universe and we can be ripped off, but the thieves once in a while get a slapping. Not often but enough to keep them on their toes...
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Gabby05
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Posted - 2005.05.12 01:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: scrooloose
i know this has been discussed before but i want to get my point across.
Originally by: scrooloose
theives should be punished as it is a crime its that simple, im not talking about ore thieves here as jetcan mining is "done at own risk", but im talking about kill missions.
EVE is meant to be a real life online experience, and in real life i would to think such crimes would not go unpunished.
You know about thievery and "real life", well il begin with real life, on the News a month back it was reported that out of all the crimes that happen in this country only 20% of the criminals actually serve time. Also another thing about RL it takes something of an average around 11 minutes for an ambulance to get to an incident and 8 for cops, so if EVE was to be like RL even if it was reckonised that thieving a loot can was illigal, they'd have ample time to take it.
Originally by: scrooloose
i think the inclusion of theivery punishment would set a new challenge, to both thieves and legit players alike, thieves would spend time avoiding concord like full pirates do, whilst legit players can exact revenge on the players who have stolen from them.
be nice -discordia
Relax, most guys that are prepared to spend 10 minutes trawling through the dozen cans littered 10km away from each other, usually are noobs that dont have enough money to buy it for themselves, i know cos i used to do it (id ask first tho).
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Shai Faetal
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Posted - 2005.05.12 11:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Shai Faetal on 12/05/2005 11:21:05
Originally by: Koda
Putting missions on the gates like that is a little lame. This could be prevented by moving them.
Still, its not as if the high sec missions spawns are dropping Arb Sieges...
say what ?:D .
about 45 minutes ago i picked up an arba siege from a lvl 4 mission along with a malkuth cruise, yesterday a corpie found a zw siege, the day before we had a shock limos siege.
All in "RENS  ".
but this was all in deadspace and has nothign to do with this post except ur comment .
anyway, last i heard a can liberator named menod somethign from rens said today that pickign up other ppls mission cans is an exploit or something. he shoudl know a gm told him after someoen petitioned him.
so if u get ur can stolen by someone "petition" them.
-
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Bonaventure Phaidon
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Posted - 2005.05.12 15:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: scrooloose
i have petitioned to ccp and they did reply to me it sounds as though they know there is a problem and are trying to fix it.
Nothing like turning a carebear annoyance into a game mechanics fiasco.
Ten isk says any 'fix' is more trouble than its worth (to anyone but macromining billionares)
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scrooloose
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Posted - 2005.05.12 17:27:00 -
[22]
i think the idea of thieves being criminally flagged to that person is the best idea yet, as the victim can attack the thief and assert his authority over his cans, where as the thief can choose to flee, or stand and fight, and maybe make more loot from the kill.
this means thieves will have to pilot, better ships and have better setups, instead of roaming around space in haulers, stealing everthing in site.
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Raneru
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Posted - 2005.05.12 17:38:00 -
[23]
Some of the level 4 blockade missions spawn close to the gates in oursulaert. Last one I saw was 11km from the gate. If its that close to the gate then the bounty and loot is fair game IMO . If your a regular level 4 mission runner then you can afford to lose the odd can of loot.
To a newer player doing level 1 or 2 missions, an item or 2 from these loot cans is like winning the lottery. If your already rich and still steal loot then that is probably a bit out of order.  |
GinandTonic
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Posted - 2005.05.12 19:04:00 -
[24]
"Nothing like turning a carebear annoyance into a game mechanics fiasco."
Think you are missing the point - its the thieves who are carebares here. Only idiots want to have concord 100% protect "their" property, but the thieves are hiding behind concords skirts.
All i want is the chance to have a pop at someone robbing me. Like the real world i might do nothing, i might attack and i MIGHT be busted if i over-react - not the 100% certain instant death we have now.
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Karl Borhman
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Posted - 2005.05.12 20:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: GinandTonic
"Nothing like turning a carebear annoyance into a game mechanics fiasco."
Think you are missing the point - its the thieves who are carebares here. Only idiots want to have concord 100% protect "their" property, but the thieves are hiding behind concords skirts.
All i want is the chance to have a pop at someone robbing me. Like the real world i might do nothing, i might attack and i MIGHT be busted if i over-react - not the 100% certain instant death we have now.
Ok, so go do your missions in 0.0 space ...
__________________________________
Mining ... the other white meat.
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Reebo77
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Posted - 2005.05.12 23:16:00 -
[26]
Boring
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Trina Tron
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Posted - 2005.05.12 23:45:00 -
[27]
If its in a radom can in space its fair game. Also where do you do misson?
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.05.12 23:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Trina Tron
If its in a radom can in space its fair game. Also where do you do misson?
Stop being cheap and use the locater agent to rob him.
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.05.13 01:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: GinandTonic
Only idiots want to have concord 100% protect "their" property, but the thieves are hiding behind concords skirts.
All i want is the chance to have a pop at someone robbing me.
I hide behind no skirt. That being said you want the chance to "pop" me then war dec the Guiding Hand. Of course that will never happen.
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GinandTonic
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Posted - 2005.05.13 19:26:00 -
[30]
Of course not. I would loose.
In real life i've fought people trying to rob me, ive run away and said "my what a large knife, here's my wallet mate".
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