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Orca and Rorqual role devinition

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Pah Triac Triac Family Logistic Holdings 0	Posted - 2012.12.08 15:04:00 - [1] - Quote Greetings and sorry for any typo made in this post. I am a huge fan of the ORE ships but some things still bother me alot. it is the basic roles of the orca and rorqual and the skill level increase options on several points. It is not a transport ship for goods with some mining bonus It is a Mining field support vessel. i have this on my mind for like a year now and saw with the latest patch notes that the Orca was still not finist and that brought me to the idea of an system that would fit the role of the Rorqual and the Orca and some more Mining suiteble changes Along with a system that would give the role/purpose within the fleet more meaning then sitting in a POS bubble or hanging under a Station, pure for the bonus. I would like propose a module that gives the Barges what they need (especialy the Hulk) A Capital ORE ship module that in 1 go gives a small but decent stream or repair needed to keep the barges in pristine condition, especialy with the new bounty changes. and a change in the "excuses" on the rorqual Due to its specialization towards industrial operations, its ship maintenance bay is able to accommodate only industrial ships, mining barges and their tech 2 variants Should be: Its specialization towards industrial operations, The ship maintenance bay is able to accommodate industrial ships, mining barges and their tech 2 variants. Aswell the change in name on the needed skills to accomodate their true purpose and usage For the Orca: Industrial field Command Ship Its in the field among the barges, its purpose semi close to the actual mining and ppl need to get deposit their goods True role: The miners and haulers need acces to its ore hold For the Rorqual: Industrial fleet command ship There not many rorqs in the field they are 90% if not 100% inside a POS shield compressing still they can be usefull for a short amount of time scanning rocks and pulling the cans wile in deep 0.0 space ppl need to get to the ship with relative ease True role needs the clone vat New module Capital ORE Ship Maintanence & Operation System This module is sending a targeted stream of shielded nano hull and armor assemblers. resulting in a small but steady stream of repairing on all lairs of defence This module uses vast amounts of capicitator due to a short cycle The effect will increase with more defences brought down becourse it gives 3 repair streams at the same time Orca change Orca: Mining command and support ship Role Bonus: Fleet members can be granted acces to the Ore hold 500% bonus to survey scanner range 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Capital ORE Ship Maintanance & Operation Systems Can use 3 warfare link modules simultaneously. Industrial field Command Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Ore hold size per level 3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman links per level 50% bonus to Capital ORE Ship Maintanence & Operation System range and 10% bonus to capacitor use per level Mining Director Skill bonus: 50% bonus to tractor beam range per level 20% bonus to tractor beam velocity per level Shared facilities Ore hold 100.000 Corporate Hangar 5.000 M3 Cargo hold 2.500 M3 Drone capacity 75 M3 50 Mbit/sec Fitting 2 Low 4 med 4 High (0 turret) 3 Upgrade (size Large) Rorqual change Rorqual: Capital Mining command and pre-processing ship Role Bonuses: 900% bonus to the range of survey scanners 200% bonus to the range of cargo scanners 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Capital ORE Ship Maintanance & Operation Systems Can fit Clone Vat Bay Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Can fit Capital tractorbeam Industrial fleet Command Ships skill bonuses: -5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level 10% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman warfare links per level when in deployed mode 50% bonus to the range and effectivenes of Capital ORE Ship Maintanance & Operation Systems per level. 20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level. 10% bonus to the Ore hold size Mining Director Skill bonus: 10% bonus to capital tractor beam range per level 10% bonus to capital tractor beam velocity per level 1 extra Jump clone per level Shared facilities Ore hold 250.000 Corporate Hangar 5.000 M3 Cargo hold 5.000 M3 1 jump clone Drone capacity 300 M3 75 Mbit/sec These proposals are in needs of serious calculations any help on this is welcome Please underbuild responces Pah.
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 248	Posted - 2012.12.08 17:21:00 - [2] - Quote you are right, it is sort of lame to have a ship where the best use is to just sit in a safe location AFK providing boosts. You compare it to a field command ship... Guess what, field command ships can mount guns, and provide DPS on the field... I also notice that you need quite a few ships in fleet before an orca improves yield due to its boosts (and with the new barges, ie retrievers and macks, once you have that number, the orca's hold is too small to be of much use considering how much ore fits in your fleet's cargo) So my simple suggestion: allow the orca the ability to fit 2 strip miners - it still mines less than any of the mining barges, but you now have more incentive to actually bring it on site (rather than have macks warping out when they are full, with an Orca just running links) - it also means that it can be used in smaller fleets without hurting mining yield (ie why fly 3 macks and an orca when you can do 4 macks... well give the orca 2 strip miners and some gang links, and it outperforms)
Pah Triac Triac Family Logistic Holdings 2	Posted - 2012.12.08 17:33:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks for the contructive reply I would like to note to you that these are Industrial command vessels and not combat command vessels ( aka no guns) i / we work with several other players on a mining system where 1-2 haulers get the ore/ice from the Orca and the Mac/hulk deposit the goods in the orca this system allready works with 3 Barges and 1 hauler Only 1 ship that jumps up and down the station and they is uninterupted and permanent bonus applied The bonus i provide with my Orca is more then decent to keep him around the Macs
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 1204	Posted - 2012.12.08 18:51:00 - [4] - Quote The Rorqual already receives, and can fit, a certain type of "repair module" that already exists. It's call the Capital Shield Transfer and repairs about 5000 shield hp ever 5 seconds. You can fit multiple versions of this modules so long as you have the room to do so. The Orca doesn't have a bonus for the "lesser" versions of these modules, but can still fit and use them to great effect. Also... don't you dare touch my Orca's fleet hanger and cargo bay!! >:( Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 250	Posted - 2012.12.08 19:31:00 - [5] - Quote Pah Triac wrote: i would never want to have strip miners on the orca its a game spoiler then all ppl buy Orca and sit in the belt till full shivers Its got, what, roughly 4-5x the cargo of a mack? But if you are mining at less than 2/3 the rate of a mack.... well it seems like the situation that many noobs used to find themselves in - rather than use a mining frigate/destroyer/mining cruiser, they stick on 1 miner on an industrial, and sit in a belt in 1.0 space until full. I think the AFK mining is already easy enough, and allowing the Orca to add some extra yeild if you actually have it on the field would not be market-breaking Quote: I would like to note to you that these are Industrial command vessels and not combat command vessels ( aka no guns) I know, but I think DPS for combat ships is analagous to yield for industrial/mining ships. Field command ships bring DPS to the field even if its not their primary role (which is boosting and supporting the other dedicated DPS) Why cant the industrial command bring some yield to the field even if its not its primary role?
Pah Triac Triac Family Logistic Holdings 2	Posted - 2012.12.08 20:24:00 - [6] - Quote Quote: Also... don't you dare touch my Orca's fleet hanger and cargo bay!! >:( in your opinion the Orca is a Hauler ? If not the change to an even larger Ore Hold would be something better right?
Murl Pulse Industries Knights Collective 2	Posted - 2012.12.08 20:53:00 - [7] - Quote I'm in favor of some increase in the ore hold on the Orca....your idea of a % based increase of the ore hold based on skill level (i.e: like the mack/retty) would work perfectly.
Pah Triac Triac Family Logistic Holdings 2	Posted - 2012.12.09 16:19:00 - [8] - Quote After some dicussions i changed the initial orca Ore hold to 150 with 10% Increase wich should compensate the loss on Regular Hold
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 183	Posted - 2012.12.09 20:28:00 - [9] - Quote The Rorqual already has capital shield remote reps. And you can add repair drones to this if you need more. Adding sub-cap RR to the Orca, and more drone bay/bandwidth for repair drones would be nice. And reducing the cargo and fleet/corp hanger on the Rorq and Orca is just bad. Especially since these ships are the closest we have to freighters with modules. And it forgets that the capital modules for the Rorq are like 4000m3, so with that little cargo space, a Rorq couldn't even truck around its own clone vat, cap shield RR and cap tractor beam while travel fit. Dirty secret time; The Rorqual is primarily used as a nullsec logistics platform for tending POS and the like. It is actually quite good at this, and is worth the sidetrack into mining skills to get it. Turning it into a strict ore hauler when there are no viable alternatives for deep space trucking would suck, and goes against the sandbox idea of using ships for what ever we want. If you want the Rorq out of the POS for mining ops, I think a good way to do it would be to let it double the drones it can deploy while in siege, with the goal of having those 10 drones mine the equivalent of a Retriever or Mackinaw.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 1208	Posted - 2012.12.09 20:41:00 - [10] - Quote Pah Triac wrote: Quote: Also... don't you dare touch my Orca's fleet hanger and cargo bay!! >:( in your opinion the Orca is a Hauler ? If not the change to an even larger Ore Hold would be something better right? I use my Orca as a tanky hauler (for ships and supplies), fleet support (link bonuses and ship refitting), and mobile operations (carry my hanger from station to station). I rarely use it for hauling ore (that's a job for a regular industrial ship). A larger ore hold wouldn't hurt me in any way... but cutting away the cargohold and fleet hanger does. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Pah Triac Triac Family Logistic Holdings 2	Posted - 2012.12.10 09:42:00 - [11] - Quote Quote: I use my Orca as a tanky hauler (for ships and supplies), fleet support (link bonuses and ship refitting), and mobile operations (carry my hanger from station to station and/or deep space). I rarely use it for hauling ore from a mining site to station (that's a job for a regular industrial ship) or from one station to another (I use a freighter for that). Your turning the purpose around due to lack of better options. If CCP Would bring in a Minor capital with Role bonus on agility aand cargo expantion say: 75.000 Initial cargo space with 10% increase per level 2 Low slots 4 Mid and no Highslot and 2 Mod slots Would suit this the needs of many ? including you?
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 183	Posted - 2012.12.10 10:50:00 - [12] - Quote Pah Triac wrote: Quote: I use my Orca as a tanky hauler (for ships and supplies), fleet support (link bonuses and ship refitting), and mobile operations (carry my hanger from station to station and/or deep space). I rarely use it for hauling ore from a mining site to station (that's a job for a regular industrial ship) or from one station to another (I use a freighter for that). Your turning the purpose around due to lack of better options. If CCP Would bring in a Minor capital with Ship bonus on agility and cargo expantion 2.5% Agility per level 80.000 Initial cargo space 10% cargo space increase per level 2 Low slots 4 Mid 0 High 2 Mod slots Would suit this the needs of many ? including you? Anyway i thought about this aswell, and so did many us as i strolled the forums. Added something to the post Would love to see you help me on this one to find a balanced ship we all could enjoy Sounds like a mobile jetcan. Give it 3 rig slots the other ships, and at least 1 high slot. Make it use the ORE Industrial skill, so we don't have to get more books. As for "better options", their is one, in the form of carriers. But they aren't allowed in highsec. The next best thing is an Orca, and it has a wide enough variety of abilities that it serves the purpose of a cheap yet capable personal logistics ship. It has ganglinks, holds fitted ships and allows for in-space refitting, can fit some tank and countermeasures.
Pah Triac Triac Family Logistic Holdings 2	Posted - 2012.12.11 17:41:00 - [13] - Quote bump

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