Originally by: Alain Josviar

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Can anyone explain why the T2 blueprints are being held onto by CCP like thier daughters . . uh . . erm . . nvm. The only effect it has is add to the T2 module and ship inflation, which is astronomical at the moment.

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Originally by: Alain Josviar

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I agree.

Can anyone explain why the T2 blueprints are being held onto by CCP like thier daughters . . uh . . erm . . nvm. The only effect it has is add to the T2 module and ship inflation, which is astronomical at the moment. They need to put every BP out on the market and shift the focus of research agents to improving the stats of the modules that can be created through the BPs. [halfbakedidea]Say at so many LPs you can turn a basic widget BP into named widget BP.[/halfbakedidea]

The solution to research and production slot hoarding/cost is to limit the number you can rent to how many you can use as dictated by your skills and add a tax of several magnitudes to any that you're not actively using.

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Originally by: Karazaan

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BTW: all stuff on market (except basic skills and some trades goods) are still coming only from players. So is tech 2... That's the goal of the game, a player driven everything that don't colapse!

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Originally by: Carla Jackson

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Originally by: Alain Josviar

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Can anyone explain why the T2 blueprints are being held onto by CCP like thier daughters . . uh . . erm . . nvm. The only effect it has is add to the T2 module and ship inflation, which is astronomical at the moment.

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Because they're not supposed to be throwaway trash bought off the market like T1 items. They're trying to foster the different economic levels that make real-world economies interesting by adding another type of commodity that most people won't be able to make themselves.

Essentially, they're supposed to be inflated because they're just that good.

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Originally by: Brolly

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If I wanted to do a lottery i'd pay ú1 every week...as apposed to ú12 a month, thankies.

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Originally by: Cummilla

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Right now, luck is KING in Eve for determining the richest of the rich....ie, you win a good t2 bpo in the lotto, YOU become a member of the Elite Richest of the Rich Club....and you might just be a 8 lb waterhead, hockey helmet wearing, carebear who has never put his pasty finger on the trigger of a gun in hostility towards anyone ever.....

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How are making those types rich accomplishing anything when the people who actually know how to play the game are kept out of that club simply because of poor luck?

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It would be pretty nifty if all these tech 2 science skills actually did something more than just being a time sink. When are we going to see research engineering or duplicate item brought into the game or even limited tech 2 bpo's?

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Odd objects attract fire. You are odd. -Murphy

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Originally by: Exarch

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If T2 bpos were open for anyone to buy they would be junk in a day. It will be as bad as the T1 market where most items sell below the mineral costs.

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Originally by: ElCapitan

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personally i think t2 system is fine.

if you have no luck geting the bp through lottery, then make money and buy it from somebody who is lucky. I see no problem with that, there are plenty of t2 bpos for sale all the time.

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Originally by: Exarch

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I'm all for a way to exchange rps for BPCs.

And Gamer i am at nearly 600,000rps between my 5 caldari starship agents and that is just a tiny drop in the bucket.... luckily i got a bpo already.

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Originally by: Exarch

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If T2 bpos were open for anyone to buy they would be junk in a day. It will be as bad as the T1 market where most items sell below the mineral costs.

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I rather like the loyalty point system used for agent offers, and wouldn't mind seeing a parallell system based on the science skills rather than the social skills used for research. The rewards wouldn't have to be BPOs directly, but could also be an entry into a lottery for a particular BPO. I.e. you might get an offer to spend 50000 "science points" on a research project that has a one-in-ten chance of getting you a particular BPO. You could then weigh the chance and decide wether to "put your money down and take your chances" or hang on for a better offer later.

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See, this is one of the many reasons science in this game sucks, you utter the name and the whole lottery issue pops up which imho IS NOT SCIENCE.

Okay, for example you could have a system of research where you could increase the stats of an object, of course this would lead to other stats maybe deccreasing a touch unless you wanted to add more points to a stat which would take quite a bit of time and money. To save people from having uber items you could cap stats.

Alternatively, use reverse engineer to increase the stats of an object by using the loot table so you basic item could be a modified/local

I still think duplicate item should be in game, obviously there is the concern of people copying the best items in the game and the economy going to **** but this can be avoided by making it a lengthly process INVOLVING SKILLS, not randomness.

In short the point is this. Since the game started every area of the game has had attention, yet science has ALWAYS been and STILL is mineral/production efficiency. Completely forget about tech 2 lottery.

What would be cool if you, on your own or maybe with other players could do something where you could see results and do something constructive with science and it's many skills.

Again, this is NOT about tech 2 but science as a whole.

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Originally by: Steini OFSI

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I proposed this system for researching once.

Researching revisited.

Long ago I came up with idea for researching, I posted it on the beta forums and later again before castor. Now the exact post is forgotten though the idea is still in my mind altered by new stuff and gameplay elements, but still relies on one major factor wich is more player involvement.

To begin with the idea we need to find out what to research and how...

Here we do have all sorts of branches of researching and most need to work with other branches to be able to do their job, and it will be almost impossible bar the largest corporations or alliances to cover all researching, but donÆt worry, independant small corporations/groups will just have to communicate (bear in mind that this game is about players and player relations). Now as I said branches would have to work together, some would be fundimental research and some would be more advanced and specifics.

Here are some of my ideas of different branches within the research industry.

Material researches: Brief description woul be to research and engineer new materials, this would be done in chemestry labs. This could be new alloys wich could be lighter, stronger or more flexible than current materials found out there.

Frequency researches: Most researches concernign ECMÆs and ECCMÆs

Optical researches: Researching mining lasters as well as lasers and laser crystals.

Now this is a rather uncomplete list but I hope you get the direction IÆm heading. Now as for the links between branches Optical researchers will need Flotrium a new material formed from the combining of Jasoxus gas isotope, Ozone and Mexhallon (a process I will explain shortly). Now the optical researchers find out that it can be used to extract more ore from Veldspar than before and try to enhance mining lasers with it and the Frequency reserchers find out that it enhances gravimetrical strength and build an enhance backup array.

(forgive me for these weird names)

Now we have somewhat small idea of what to research and letÆs get to how.

The exact process varies from the different branches, from superconducters and high pressure chambers and research labs. These would be some sort of lab POS assembly, each would have research labs and the structures around it to be able to do product tests and assembly for what youÆre constructing or creating. In the gun researching we would have nano assemblies and for material research we would have superconductors and high pressure chambers. The basic idea here is that from each test you do you will get logs, and these logs are the largest new element in my idea.

Research logs are raw data documents that is handed to you after each failed/successful product assembly you try. These logs are mundant to look at but can be automated through the game mechanics or you might try to read through them and get the results you want by building up from previous test runs, so you have ten logs from trying to create material bonds, all of them failed and you only change small thing in the pressure chamber each time. So you could try to compare these logs yourself and see what and where some thing went wrong and therefore come to the conclusion that temperature doesnÆt seem to have effect of the testing enviroment, pressure does seem to have good effects around 293 bar on the reaction and then you tried different catalysts etc. or this can be automaticly analized by research teams and there would be a timer on the log analyzing depending on the size of the research team and their skills wich would have to be high rank and have good pre requirements to hinder alts, then you would get information that the pressure needs to be higher or lower or that the heat more or less. You could also try to hasten the project by dooing more test runs and feed more logs to the research team.

But when you finally have a product you want to make money and how is that possible once itÆs been made and everyone could possibly recreate it. Here was my last thought, exclusive rights. Once you have a product you gain exclusive rights for some time to control itÆs manufacturing and distribution, donÆt forget that however your product might need other advanced materials and stuff to be produced so good ties and relationships need to be built between players. More perhaps to come on this point when IÆve thought it through.

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Originally by: Mattduk

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Originally by: Steini OFSI

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I proposed this system for researching once.

Researching revisited...

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Wow!!! It sounds cool, but you just scared the crap out of the devs!

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Research logs are raw data documents that is handed to you after each failed/successful product assembly you try. These logs are mundant to look at but can be automated through the game mechanics or you might try to read through them and get the results you want by building up from previous test runs, so you have ten logs from trying to create material bonds, all of them failed and you only change small thing in the pressure chamber each time. So you could try ...

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Research logs are raw data documents that is handed to you after each failed/successful product assembly you try. These logs are mundant to look at but can be automated through the game mechanics or you might try to read through them and get the results you want by building up from previous test runs, so you have ten logs from trying to create material bonds, all of them failed and you only change small thing in the pressure chamber each time. So you could try ...

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Originally by: Epictetus

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When i first started out i was also determined to become a scientist/engineer. All i ever wanted to do was improving on existant technology, perhaps specialising within a very narrow field to get good at it (for instance spend a year just improving shield bpo's so the shields i produce are some of the best to be had).

When i heard about the lottery i gave up on the whole idea and decided i would aid my minmatar brethren by fighting instead of supplying them with good gear.

Im confident that many players like me decided to pass on research alltogether due to the non existant research options.

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I'm somewhat aware of the complexity of this proposed system and somewhere in the vicinity of Hverfisg÷tu is a green house where if you listened closely, you could hear several million braincells scream.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: ElCapitan

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personally i think t2 system is fine.

if you have no luck geting the bp through lottery, then make money and buy it from somebody who is lucky. I see no problem with that, there are plenty of t2 bpos for sale all the time.

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I absolutely disagree with that, people with intelligence and organisation should trump "luck" every day of the week.

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Originally by: Star Shadow

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Your missing the point. Yes FIX WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING instead of adding more crap that may or may not work. The corp taxing has never worked, the corp in game mail system only works to others if they are on line at the time it's sent. Science doesn't work, blah blah blah.

What so hard about fixing whats broke before adding more content?

I've played since the second stage of beta and nothing bothers me more then this about CCP.

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