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oh my lawd, AI change!

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Daria Meridian Carlile The Carlile Consortium 29	Posted - 2012.12.09 11:32:00 - [1] - Quote Yeah, tons of complaints.. I was just wondering what the "reason" for the AI change was? Was it to shake up pve a bit, make group tasks harder? Or to put a dent into afk-droners? I've been doing some testing, and while my heavies are getting pounded, my sentry drones remains unaffected by the AI change, so i'm assuming agro is based on proximity and not so much dps?
Alara IonStorm 3787	Posted - 2012.12.09 11:39:00 - [2] - Quote Daria Meridian Carlile wrote: I was just wondering what the "reason" for the AI change was? Guess they decided not to lower mission bounties after all.
Sentamon 338	Posted - 2012.12.09 11:42:00 - [3] - Quote AI is still far too easy and predictable, although much improved. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 3097	Posted - 2012.12.09 11:44:00 - [4] - Quote The point was to implement an actual AI for the remaining NPCs and shake things up a bit. I think it's part of a larger PvE revamp where they're moving away from large masses of weak NPCs to a few stronger and more intelligent ones, so the difference between PvP and PvE fits can be reduced and make it less dull/AFK friendly. All the group PvE activities already have a much tougher AI, so there was no change there and no need for one.
Daria Meridian Carlile The Carlile Consortium 29	Posted - 2012.12.09 11:50:00 - [5] - Quote Well, the only thing that's been shaken up in the missions i've done, is that i've used sentries instead of heavies, net result is about the same as before :p
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition. 2242	Posted - 2012.12.09 11:50:00 - [6] - Quote oh my lawd, another thread about the AI change! Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 2191	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:01:00 - [7] - Quote Daria Meridian Carlile wrote: Yeah, tons of complaints.. I was just wondering what the "reason" for the AI change was? Was it to shake up pve a bit, make group tasks harder? Or to put a dent into afk-droners? I've been doing some testing, and while my heavies are getting pounded, my sentry drones remains unaffected by the AI change, so i'm assuming agro is based on proximity and not so much dps? The "shaking" consists into switching to a Tengu. The dent into afk-droners consisted into making Dominix + sentry drones... ... keep playing Dominix + sentry drones even more. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 495	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:05:00 - [8] - Quote Sentamon wrote: AI is still far too easy and predictable, although much improved. it went from "bug" level to "fish" level. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 2216	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:09:00 - [9] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: The dent into afk-droners consisted into making Dominix + sentry drones... ... keep playing Dominix + sentry drones even more. Yup. Even my Huginn doesn't get as much aggro as the Rattlesnake does. The Huginn is painting and webbing, the Rattlesnake just has drones deployed to assist the Huginn. At least I now know that NPC aggro is 100% controllable Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 2192	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:14:00 - [10] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: The dent into afk-droners consisted into making Dominix + sentry drones... ... keep playing Dominix + sentry drones even more. Yup. Even my Huginn doesn't get as much aggro as the Rattlesnake does. The Huginn is painting and webbing, the Rattlesnake just has drones deployed to assist the Huginn. At least I now know that NPC aggro is 100% controllable I think there's a simplest strategy involving any boat able to field 5 light drones, even a frigate. Couple it with a mission boat and you'll have invulnerable drones and a mission boat able to shoot at optimal. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 38	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:19:00 - [11] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Daria Meridian Carlile wrote: Yeah, tons of complaints.. I was just wondering what the "reason" for the AI change was? Was it to shake up pve a bit, make group tasks harder? Or to put a dent into afk-droners? I've been doing some testing, and while my heavies are getting pounded, my sentry drones remains unaffected by the AI change, so i'm assuming agro is based on proximity and not so much dps? The "shaking" consists into switching to a Tengu. The dent into afk-droners consisted into making Dominix + sentry drones... ... keep playing Dominix + sentry drones even more. Ya. They want us to "adapt"! The new AI is actually just a randomizer that makes NPCs switch targets in an unpredicted way, from time to time. "Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs.
Daria Meridian Carlile The Carlile Consortium 29	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:19:00 - [12] - Quote Well, it seems to be proximity triggered.. I'm having success with Ogre II's on a gila, simply flying with the drones :P, basically making it an 800dps cruiser at the price of 200m :> 12:13:14Combat1225 to Corelatis Squad Leader - Ogre II - Wrecks
YuuKnow Inner 5phere 479	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:32:00 - [13] - Quote It was to make all mission running more challenging. AIs before were justs plain stupid. Now at least they have a little "Intellience" to the Artificial Intelligence. yk
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 38	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:46:00 - [14] - Quote YuuKnow wrote: It was to make all mission running more challenging. AIs before were justs plain stupid. Now at least they have a little "Intellience" to the Artificial Intelligence. yk If just a random targeting can be called an "intelligence" that's ok. Right now your drones get insta poped if NPC decides to kill it and nothing you can do about it. To me it's plain stupid. So basically with new AI missions became stupid and dumb. "Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs.
Daria Meridian Carlile The Carlile Consortium 29	Posted - 2012.12.09 12:50:00 - [15] - Quote Funky Lazers wrote: YuuKnow wrote: It was to make all mission running more challenging. AIs before were justs plain stupid. Now at least they have a little "Intellience" to the Artificial Intelligence. yk If just a random targeting can be called an "intelligence" that's ok. Right now your drones get insta poped if NPC decides to kill it and nothing you can do about it. To me it's plain stupid. So basically with new AI missions became stupid and dumb. I've just completed 4 level 4 missions and i've only lost one drone, and that was my fault more than the new AI's. I'm not even recalling my drones, i simply fly with them, firing at npcs with my 1x light missile launcher. Change your tactics, and you can operate as efficiently in a drone boat, as you could before patch. Unless you're in a glass-shell which relies on extreme range.
Ronan Connor 10	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:13:00 - [16] - Quote Daria Meridian Carlile wrote: Yeah, tons of complaints.. I was just wondering what the "reason" for the AI change was? Was it to shake up pve a bit, make group tasks harder? Or to put a dent into afk-droners? I've been doing some testing, and while my heavies are getting pounded, my sentry drones remains unaffected by the AI change, so i'm assuming agro is based on proximity and not so much dps? I guess there are several reasons. 1.) We have to assume that CCP wanted to intend honestly to make missions more interesting but then politics came into play and demanded a "quick win" for the expansion, instead of a well tested overhaul of the complete mission system. This means, design of the missions, aggro, drone system overhaul, amount of NPC opponents etc. 2.) Lobby work of high sec haters (like Goons), to nerf high sec income so much, to drive people into low sec or null. ( I can tell from experience already, that the amount of lvl 4 played is declining) 3.) Economical problems of CCP, either the economy inside the game needed a nerf or some "stake holder" like pvper played their cards and CCP did loose subscriptions. 4.) Turn lvl 4 missions into some kind of high sec incursions, where you are forced to play at least in a team of 2 (see #2) 5.) Act against bots. We can only hope that CCP is acting quick and is providing the needed overhauls (like using drones like ammo, amount of npc etc. ) or that the stake holders in form of pve'er are forcing CCP to roll back (until the problem is solved).
Pretty GuyYeah Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 5	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:29:00 - [17] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: oh my lawd, another thread about the AI change! Let's make a couple more, how do you like that
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 495	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:30:00 - [18] - Quote Funky Lazers wrote: YuuKnow wrote: It was to make all mission running more challenging. AIs before were justs plain stupid. Now at least they have a little "Intellience" to the Artificial Intelligence. yk If just a random targeting can be called an "intelligence" that's ok. Right now your drones get insta poped if NPC decides to kill it and nothing you can do about it. To me it's plain stupid. So basically with new AI missions became stupid and dumb. as I said, it went from "bug" to "fish" [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Alpheias Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse 1697	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:34:00 - [19] - Quote Would be awesome if the rats batphoned for help. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 495	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:35:00 - [20] - Quote Alpheias wrote: Would be awesome if the rats batphoned for help. now that would be a real AI upgrade. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1871	Posted - 2012.12.09 13:42:00 - [21] - Quote Grimpak wrote: Alpheias wrote: Would be awesome if the rats batphoned for help. now that would be a real AI upgrade. AI hotdropping blobs on you eh... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 584	Posted - 2012.12.09 16:00:00 - [22] - Quote The reason for this change is the same as the other changes, that the new coders don't understand the old code. Much like with divisions in ships, they couldn't understand how to "fix" it so they remove it. They couldn't understand how to make the old npc AI better, so they tried to remove it wherever they could, and use the easier to understand sleeper AI. With all the bugs that lead to, it seems the easier to understand AI is still a bit beyond their capabilities. tl;dr: new coders aren't as good as the old coders.
Yatama Kautsuo Tencus 46	Posted - 2012.12.09 16:32:00 - [23] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Grimpak wrote: Alpheias wrote: Would be awesome if the rats batphoned for help. now that would be a real AI upgrade. AI hotdropping blobs on you eh... no, they are called "triggers"
stoicfaux 1832	Posted - 2012.12.09 16:57:00 - [24] - Quote Alpheias wrote: Would be awesome if the rats batphoned for help. NPCs should be able to get and sell kill rights on players? You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 471	Posted - 2012.12.09 16:59:00 - [25] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: The "shaking" consists into switching to a Tengu. almost lost my Tengu today because it instantly got aggro from 2 groups of NPCs every time I entered the second pocket in Worlds Collide... Ended up abandoning the mission becuase I could barely kill one frigate NPC before having to warp out (with overheated tank). Drones are barely an issue but all triggers except for proximity triggers seem to be broken. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid.
Frozen Eddie Johnson Aliastra Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.12.09 17:05:00 - [26] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Grimpak wrote: Alpheias wrote: Would be awesome if the rats batphoned for help. now that would be a real AI upgrade. AI hotdropping blobs on you eh... I'm still waiting to have 30 faction battleships, an arazu, a couple huginns, and a couple tracking dreads titan bridged on top of my T1 mission boat. I mean, if they want PVE to be more like PVP, this only makes sense, right?
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1873	Posted - 2012.12.09 20:44:00 - [27] - Quote Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Grimpak wrote: Alpheias wrote: Would be awesome if the rats batphoned for help. now that would be a real AI upgrade. AI hotdropping blobs on you eh... I'm still waiting to have 30 faction battleships, an arazu, a couple huginns, and a couple tracking dreads titan bridged on top of my T1 mission boat. I mean, if they want PVE to be more like PVP, this only makes sense, right? Uh huh. Or even a bait drake waiting for you on warpin. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm

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