This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.

Ooooh, another dronewhine thread. Ill sit this one out and let everyone else take a whack at it.

Thats just it, I dont fail at drones :) I cant be arsed to pull sentries every 5 seconds. The game begins to get boring fast.

In fact its fair to assume that tracking and speed need to be looked at because how a cruiser tracks anything going 5000 MS is beyond me :P

By stating that the above boats you mentioned are now useless, you obviously suck at drones.

This isnt a rant though so it should be allowed to continue.

I have an issue with threads getting locked constantly because in my eyes that's a sure sign of knowing they've done wrong and don't want to comment or have their game look bad.

What do server hosters in FPS game do to better players? they get kickbanned...because the bad player hates looking bad.

Same here in truth. I think the community should have a place to say what they think, more so we have a right to voice our opinion as its us directly funding CCP as a company.

Without us CCP liquidates.

Its that simple.

Its in my opinion the more threads get started the more CCP will take notice and take action.

Lets be fair, the other threads are being purposefully ignored.

Honestly, this making a new thread just to get their attention is no different from a child throwing a tantrum for the same thing.

If that child has decent caring parents they will give the child what's needed for said child to calm down. More than likely it will be attention so thanks for adding that extra dimension to my thread.

What?

You think teaching children that they'll get what they want if they stomp their feet for it is a good thing??

That's your problem right there.

If that child has decent, caring parents, they'll teach that child that you don't always get what you want, especially if you demand it as if you think yourself entitled.

Kids can demand anything they want, they didn't ask to be here so as a parent you do everything for them. The tantrum thing is dependant on what its about. That 2nd chocolate bar then sure the tantrum would continue.

Arguably, there was no drone change. There hasn't been a drone change for a very long time. Which I feel is the root of the whole issue.

The AI change, which did affect drones, is fairly nasty. Manageable, which I readily admit, but nasty nonetheless. It did not improve my quality of life or the fun I normally would have (precious little) doing EVE's mind-numbing PvE. When you consider the fact that other weapon systems are arguably more effective and/or efficient, and the fact that other weapon systems are vastly more popular (see EVEKill top 20 ships -> no drone boats!) for a number of reasons, I don't know why this was done to drone users. Feels like kicking someone who is already down, and has been for quite a while.

Drones need an overhaul. A massive one. Starting with the UI, the stats of drones themselves, their combat mechanics - the works. Basically tear-down and rebuild from scratch. Hopefully some of the antiquated paradigms (like the 5-drone limit) can be addressed as well. There was a reason for this when it was introduced (in 2007?) but servers changed since then, and now we have TiDi, so mechanically it shouldn't be a problem any more. And even if it is, I'm sure there's solutions that can be tried.

And yes, like you I would very much like to see any Dev comment on the drone issue. So far, it's been over a week and not a peep from anyone. A simple "we won't be touching drones in near future" would be more than sufficient to let us know, so we can cross-train and stop wasting time. Honestly, if they just told us, openly "If you're a drone user, you're ****ed!" I would be totally fine with that. I just need information! Talk to us!

Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]

I just thought I'd point out to him that this thread was already in progress. Nothing more to say here, Falcon et al will be along soon enough to lock it.

There were drone changes in Retribution?

Can you allaborate on those changes please?


I thought there were AI changes that just made the horrible drone mechanics stand out even mroe then they already did.


In otherwords, there's nothing wrong with drones themselves. Drone management is another issue, and they've already said they intend to overahaul the mechanics so that it's not a royal pain in the ass to use drones.

The AI changes are probably the best bet to get drone mechanics done sooner than later.

The AI changes are probably the best bet to get drone mechanics done sooner than later.

wat?

Please stop making threads about the drones.

The situation is this: They put the AI changes on the test server. People immediately brought up the drones. CCP acknowledged it. People continued to be worried about drones if this went live. CCP pushed the AI change live in spite of not having any changes to mission scripts or drones.

What do you want them to say? Yes we know we ****** all you Gallente users, soz too bad. We needed the AI pushed to halt the influx of ISK. Drones will be done later, or never. Suck it up.

Here's the thread with dev responses. Read all 36 pages. Note how FoxFour just fades away when it's clear that the community is getting rather pissed off. That discussion happened when the changes were on the Test server. They pushed them live anyway, despite feedback.

Thats just it, I dont fail at drones :) I cant be arsed to pull sentries every 5 seconds. The game begins to get boring fast.

In fact its fair to assume that tracking and speed need to be looked at because how a cruiser tracks anything going 5000 MS is beyond me :P

Generally, when considering human behavior, people get 'bored' when there is a lack of activity.

Congratulations on your unprecedented achievement as the first human to get 'bored' by an increase in stuff to do. You truly are a marvel.

Honestly, this making a new thread just to get their attention is no different from a child throwing a tantrum for the same thing.

Your summary is pretty accurate, as I have been living in that thread for some time.
But you are off on one point.

At no time did CCP acknowledge this was to be an attack on ISK generation.
They have wanted that all along, and are giggling like school girls about the devastation they have wrought on ISK generation, but they have NEVER publicly acknowledged or stated that was the main thrust of this change.

Further, it is complete lie that there is a need to wipe out ISK generation.
Their own dev's just released a blog stating that outside of plex prices, the Eve economy is experiencing a DEFLATIONARY period.

What is far more telling is how the damage to null sec income was mitigated for this release.
1.CCP Fox Four stated back in November that plex structures (eg. Neut towers, Citadel Torps, web Towers) would not have the new AI applied to them. The vast, vast. vast majority of plexes this impacts are found in deep low sec and null sec.
2. CCP also changed (was announced in the blogs) that all Citadel Torps would now do the same type of damage associated with the rats in a plex. (ie. Sanshas to EM, Guristas do Kin, etc).
There was a thread created supposedly by a null sec plexer immediately after this was tested on Duality.
In that thread he complained that the Plexes he was running in null sec were now TOO EASY, not too hard.

So let's recap:
Mission running, primarily a high sec function, is hammered into the ground.
Plex running, primarily a null sec function, has changes made to them to mitigate the damage done to ISK generation in them.
And CCP does not say a word about any of this.

Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]

CCP want PvE to be nerfed partly due to the null-sec whiners stamping their feet and throwing a hissy fit, and also to nerf your hi-sec income, so you either buy plex or move to null-sec to become blob fodder for the ego stroking elite in EvE, which you will end up being forced to buy plex anyhoo due to not being left alone in peace to make isk due to above mentioned ego strokers blobbing / griefing you.

It's a redundant thread. Already in progress. You don't start a new one, you add your "not a rant" to an existing one.

They will lock it because it's not necessary, this discussion is already taking place. They're not trying to silence anyone, they lock redundant threads to keep the front page of the forums clear for as many topics open for discussion as possible. Why don't you check a few out, you might find the one you are looking for.

Most of them are locked because of trolls like you. The OP has an issue and he has started a discussion. Let him do it - also try to find a more constructive way of living your life instead of trying to be a **** to others.

no tin foil hat needed... what i said is based on fact.

just wait til the next patch comes out and hi-sec incomes will be nerfed further until the game becomes so niche it will die out due to not having enough subscribers and we will all see the announcements of eve online servers finally being shut down.

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.

Ooooh, another dronewhine thread. Ill sit this one out and let everyone else take a whack at it.

Please tell me you don't work in any business that requires you to be interacting with paying customers.

Response from CCP, and everyone else, can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.

Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]

And yes, like you I would very much like to see any Dev comment on the drone issue. So far, it's been over a week and not a peep from anyone. A simple "we won't be touching drones in near future" would be more than sufficient to let us know, so we can cross-train and stop wasting time. Honestly, if they just told us, openly "If you're a drone user, you're ****ed!" I would be totally fine with that. I just need information! Talk to us!

This is completely untrue. I fly drone boats and it works fine in PVE. A little harder yes. If you think they are useless you didn't know how to fly 'em in the first place. This argument is stale and is simply whining. Can you AFK anymore? No.

Plus, why did you feel the need to start yet another thread on this? Are you a special snowflake?

Please don't touch my drones. They bleep and whine so distressingly whenever they see you...

...you haven't....done anything to them, have you?

Response from CCP, and everyone else, can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

Funny how responses like this get so many likes. I beleive this game is just full of trolls because it isn't the fact that people lose drones, but recalling heavy drones over and over make drone boats like 50% slower to do missions than anything else. This is a fact and I've tried everything from target painters to ECM to hold aggro and you will still have to recall drones on a regular during certain missions. You will still lose some drones even if you recall as soon as NPC switch to them, but that isn't as bad as the time it takes to get the mission completed. Just because you can do missions in a drone boat doens't mean you should. I would suggest that everyone who trained 60 days for really good drone skills instead of the 22 for missiles or tiurret skills just quit the game. If you drones did 50% more damgage than turrets, you might complete missions at the same rate after all the recalling of drones you have to do if you use heavies.

Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]

What?

You think teaching children that they'll get what they want if they stomp their feet for it is a good thing??

That's your problem right there.

If that child has decent, caring parents, they'll teach that child that you don't always get what you want, especially if you demand it as if you think yourself entitled.

If you had children, I'd expect them to turn out scary, and have lots of psychological issues. Maybe you have children; be warned.

Seriously, report the post if you have an issue with repetitive; but keep it at that. Currently, you're just trolling, harassing, and attempting to derail an otherwise valid argument.

I don't use drones but I manufacture them and I have noticed the price has dropped since the expansion. Its not much but enough to make me want to manufacture other goods.

I thought the price would go up because people are losing more drones and need to replace them, but apparently people are just giving them up.

1. Recall drones and just use to get rid of scram frigs etc.

2. Use Turrets more - concentrated on range and tracking.

I usually employ a Dominix w/ large rails and plenty of drones for L4 missions. I use drones close and guns at range. While the changes to NPC "AI" have not made using this arrangement impossible, they have certainly made using it more tedious and more annoying. As another poster mentioned, the relatively frequent deploy/recall cycles have also made this configuration slower to complete missions as damage output has been reduced.

I have 9.1M SP in drones, but in the EVE spirit of "HTFU" and "Adapt or Die," I have re-arranged my training plan and placed Missiles at the forefront, and I have a buy order out for a Raven. I will have to learn to live with the Raven's weaker tank (comparatively), but I think that will be manageable.

Ultimately it's disappointing to have "chosen poorly," as it were, but I'm not sure what else there is to do about it. In just under 8 days I will have sufficient missile skills to make the switch.

Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven

I think switching away from drones is currently very reasonable for a mission runner. Currently even if you pay a lot of attention, there will be at least one drone death each mission, which will cost you about 500k minimum. Guns don't die and the ammunition is a lot cheaper, rendering drones completely inferior at every point right now.

As I already stated excessively on the Assembly Hall: This drone change was a mistake and needs to be fixed immediately. And if you ask me, I'd say this change is so full of fail, that the one responsible for it should be exchanged with someone who can actually do the job.

So.... what drone change is this? There hasn't been a change to drones. What has occured is the NPCs got smarter, and the loophole you took advantage of to mission risk free closed.
Its also the first step towards fewer tougher NPC's, which actually benefits drone users in the long run, as there will be fewer NPC's to switch agro and keep an eye on. But. It needs time for them to do the changes step by step, because they can't do it all at once due to the law of unintended consequences.
So.... Most of us seem actually happy with these changes, personally I think whoever did it needs a medal for making such a great change. Even if it has slightly negativly impacted on drone users.

So.... what drone change is this? There hasn't been a change to drones. What has occured is the NPCs got smarter, and the loophole you took advantage of to mission risk free closed.
Its also the first step towards fewer tougher NPC's, which actually benefits drone users in the long run, as there will be fewer NPC's to switch agro and keep an eye on. But. It needs time for them to do the changes step by step, because they can't do it all at once due to the law of unintended consequences.
So.... Most of us seem actually happy with these changes, personally I think whoever did it needs a medal for making such a great change. Even if it has slightly negativly impacted on drone users.

Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven

This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.

Dear Remiel, you seem distraught, step outside, take some deep breaths of fresh air, then come back and post.

If CCP acknowledged that the new drone AI affects drone boats disproportinately, and made a simple clear statement that the issue is been looked at, then most folk would happily await the outcome.

Then I could pay Eve agian in my poor neglected Navy Dominix.

Dude, just stop trying. I did. CCP does not comment on the state of drones any more, in PvP or PvE. Put "CCP" and "drones" in one topic, and you are virtually guaranteed no blue tag. Do yourself a favour and cross-train away from drone boats like everyone else.

Dominix: still remains a popular ship. It is fairly good, except for the drone mechanics themselves, which are terribly outdated. While we are not certain when this can be tackled, it definitely has high priority on our to-do list.

Hellfire, losing DRONES in high sec lvl 4s doesn't hold a candle to losing FIGHTERs in low sec lvl 5s or Faction battleships in a null plex (yes I lost a rattlesnake in an attempt to figure out a plex, funny thing is the plex dropped a Bhaalgorn BPC, didn't want that snake noways).

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE.

CCP have posted a response to this discussion in another thread today. Go check it out

They still don't even acknowledge that drone problem exists. Like I said, all T2 drones having the same T1 resist profile, Sentries not affected by racial drone specializations, crappy drone AI (they still split damage with focus fire enabled, a bug 9 years old and counting, still no fix of even acknowledgment that it is an issue), crappy drone UI (never seen anyone even remotely sane claim drone UI is good or even decent), still no compensation for lack of features (like overheating to boost drone effectiveness), few drone rigs and zero drone implants, etc., etc.

Most of these are half a decade old or older. Nothing's been done.

GǪquite possible because some of them aren't problems to begin with, most notably the resist profiles or the sentry bonuses. The UI has been acknowledged, as has the AI, but they're tricky things to fix.

Well, let's be reasonable. What T2 ships share the identical resist to their T1 variants? So why should drones?

T2 sentries being unaffected by racial specialization? Again, what sense does that make?

As far as I know, all turrets, missiles and drones (except Sentries and Fighters/FBs and ewar and logi drones) at T2 level ARE affected by their respective racial specialization.

UI and AI have been a problem for approximately 5 years now. At last FanFest they showed a mock-up of the new drone UI, but since then it's been pretty quiet.

So all those weeks training drone skills as a speciality boil down to:



Awesome!

And I still find elite frigs instapopping my hobgob2s regularly in L3s

What does sense have to do with it? They do inherently better damage so they don't need the bonus. It's called balance it and it trumps irrelevant GÇ£senseGÇ¥ every day of the week.

...sentries don't particularly need it anyway since it's rolled into the whole GÇ£20% better in every wayGÇ¥ profile.

Me? Distraught? My drones are working just fine. I'm not the one posting endless whine threads about how there's something (apparently) wrong with drones now. Also, CCP have addressed the issue. Did you miss it?

Also, as stated earlier, that was posted weeks ago. I've already had my outside time for the month.

Do you need me to get Willy Wonka to ask you a 'Please explain" meme or do you got this?

You seem like a total spaz actually.

Trollolo. It isn't rocket science to attack a ship with drones ******. You can stare at the screen, attack NPC with same size drones and kill elite NPC first and you will still end up recalling drones 10 times on some missions. This makes for the slowest mission running in the game. That is a fact and nothing can change this truth. I've done everything from ecm to target painters+remotre rep on sentry drones. The people who are most affected by this are those who like to use heavy, medium, and light drones instead of sentries.