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Kindakrof
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kindakrof on 29/05/2005 15:50:48
Please read the red text below to avoid misunderstanding
EDIT: The 'useless' ships.
The ships that I think are underrated. I might be wrong but you can always correct me. Do not misunderstand me when I say 'useless' because I'm talking about the ships that players think are useless without knowing what use they have.
I will explain why the ships are on the list below. I also might add the things I have used those ships for.
How about we all come together with an open mind for once and try to find a use for all the 'useless' and ingored ships.
Let me start with a list.
Caldari:
Heron, Condor, Griffin. (The bantam is crap, nothing we can do. Only useful for noobs mining)
Gallente:
Maulus, Atron, (Navitas got removed since it's just a mini-imicus)
Celestis
Dominix.
Minmatar:
Slasher, Breacher
Bellicose - Nothing more here i feel.
Amarr:
Inquisitor, Tormentor, Crucifier, Executioner.
Auguror (It's not a mining ship), Arbitrator!, Omen.
Heron: I rarely see anyone use it. I have used one in a minor fleet battle. I jammed a cyclone and that may have turned the tables since there were not many of us.
Griffin: I used this one a lot. I attacked ravens in it all on my own. It was funny as hell seeing them sit there while the rockets fly at it. Then the tempest comes :(
Condor: It's fast. It can only fit one missile launcher wich is bad. MWD is the only way a concord can ever serve as a combat ship.
Maulus: I saw the description : says there that it's an EW frig. also has 3 med slots and a damper bonus. Might be really good in PVP. Either in fleet battles or frig vs. frig since it reduces the range so greatly. It might need a scrambler but with that i don't know how far a frig can lock with 2 dampers on it.
[About my 'Nerf-all-EW-xcept-scorp-patch' It has turned into a dice game now. The sensor strenght of ships has been boosted. If you use EW frigates and successfully jam. Then you gotta do it again next time wich might not be successful. Then you gotta wait some more and quite possibly get killed while at it.]
Atron: Atron is all MWD and blasters since it has the +5% small hybrid dmg bonus. May have cap problems.
Celestis: I have seen one... twice. It is underrated. With dampeners, rails and launchers it would do good. The problem is looks i guess.
Dominix: It's really efficcient in the right hands. Tho the standard setup seems to have 6 nosses. I only put it here because i think it's the most underrated BS there is but it is really good.
Slasher: Fast, can fire rockets. Maybe good with a nos. But highly fragile.
Breacher: I use one. It's good but players go for the kessie simply because it packs more firepower. The breacher i find good for scouting and tackling. Maybe good for pvp also.
Bellicose: Simple reason = I never see one. It needs a bit of modification. It has slightly more shields but armor has more resistances. Also 4 lows and 3 meds. The mediums are defenatley for AB/MWD and sensor booster. It's good for long range = "While not quite in the league of newer navy cruisers, the Bellicose is still a very solid ship for
most purposes, especially in terms of long range combat"
Also "10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret Optimal Range
per level." But the basic locking range is only 42 km. I sense a damage dealer here.
Inquisitor: Something like the breacher. A bit slower tho but maybe an armor rep makes up for that.
Tormentor: The Bantam of the Amarr, 2 mining drones make up for the lack of cargo.
Executioner: Fast. only has lasers tho wich gives it cap problems.
Auguror: It should be the Amarr mining cruiser like the scythe, osprey, exequror. It lacks firepower but is defenately a tank since it has 5 lows and " 10% bonus to Armor Hitpoints per level"
Arbitrator: Defenately a good ship. Since it has 4 high and 2 turret/1 launcher it needs to be equipped with something else like a nos, smartbomb, remote repairer. It could use another missile slot and a missile bonus. Same as the Auguror except it has a little less armor and all the drones. Defenately good for experienced players.
Omen: Outclassed by the maller.
That is all.
Btw. Please don't be mean. If you feel that i'm stupid then simply don't reply.
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Irina DeFoe
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:33:00 -
[2]
I just wish to pintout that the Arbitrator is far from usless. It have been the doom of many AF's. I also know losses of HACs and BSs to Arbitrators (notice the plural s).
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Greyshadow
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:42:00 -
[3]
I agree a bantam is a noob ship but I found it very handy to start with so to us it might be useless but to a noob its helpful and a bs to them is useless if you see what I mean.
There will always be a ship that is better than the rest and that everyone will go for but at least there is the choice if you want to be different.
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:44:00 -
[4]
Well if I start with the caldari frigs then only the heron is the one I'd call useless. Condor is the fastest caldari t1 frig and has 3 med slots so it can have a role as a tackler, probably has some cap problems now though. The Griffin is the only t1 frig that has 4 med slots. The heron is just bad because there is nothing it can do that another caldari frig can't do better.
Breacher, if I remember correctly, has 3 launchers and is quite fast compared to the kestrel so I wouldn't exactly call them useless. Those are all t1 frigs though so don't expect them to be uber.
Also the comment "nerf-all-EW-xcept-for-the-scorp patch"  What the hell are you talking about before the patch every ECM you used on your ship was useless if you didn't have enough jamming strength. Now any ship has possibility to jam making the scorp no longer the only ship used for jamming. Ok perhaps it wasn't the only one I guess blackbird was used to.
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Capacitor research |
Ortu Konsinni
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 26/05/2005 12:46:25
 Originally by: Kindakrof
Gallente: Maulus, Navitas, Atron.
Celestis
Domi (It's not useless but it's the most rare BS around i think)
Agreed about the Navitas and the Atron. Concerning the Maulus, it's a decent mining ship. Yes, the Imicus is the default mining frigate, but the Maulus can fit 2 Miners II, although it has less cargo. Admittedly the Maulus wasn't meant for that, I reckon... I'll not comment on the Celestis since I've never flown one. As for the Dominix, I don't see why you listed it -- you say yourself it's not useless. It's a fantastic ship in the right hands and with a little bit of imagination. It's highly underrated. People are turned off by its design, too, I believe. Personally I can't wait to fly one again, but I have other priorities for now.
Quote:
Minmatar: Breacher, Bellicose - Nothing more here i feel.
I won't comment on the Bellicose, but the Breacher is a fine missile boat. Unfortunately it's horribly flimsy, but I like it a lot. For useless Minmatar frigates, look to the Burst and maybe the Slasher, although the latter is a decent scout ship (but I'd still take a Vigil over it of course :)
Quote:
Omen(maybe it's used. I can't find any good role for it.
The Omen isn't too bad for cheap fire support in a medium-sized group. Of course a Maller is better but a Maller is also more expensive. People mine a lot in Omens, too.
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:50:00 -
[6]
Arbitrator is a skills intensive ship - so many will find it 'useless' when, like many ships, it is very useful in the right hands.
On the Bellicose - totally useless and I simply do not understand why the recent EW patch did not give the ship some kind of EW optimisation (a new bonus and a slot swap to increase the mids for eg) so that it would at least have some kind of role. This could also have been done with the Augorer.
Cosmo
The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:51:00 -
[7]
The only problem the Omen has is that it's outclassed in any and all ways by the Maller. It's obviously meant to do damage, and the Maller to tank, but it lacks grid to fit the guns, and the Maller has a fifth turret, making up for a damage bonus.
Besides that, pretty much all frigates going under 1.5km/sec are nearly useless in PvP since you die to missiles even when going in a straight line away from them.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 26/05/2005 13:00:05
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 26/05/2005 12:58:55
Originally by: Kindakrof
Amarr: Inquisitor, Tormentor, Crucifier.
Auguror (It's not a mining ship), Arbitrator!, Omen(maybe it's used. I can't find any good role for it.
The Inquisitor is a handy ship if you like missiles. Arguably, it's second only to the Kestral.
The Tormentor is probably most Amarrian noobs first ship purchase - I know it was mine!. It's a handy ship for mining in if you're just starting out.
The Crucifier is a handy EW frigate, especially if you like tracking disruptors.
The Augoror is probably the worst cruiser in the game, although some of my esteemed colleagues will disagree with me on that.
Conversely, the Arbitrator is one of the best cruisers in the game. All it takes is good skills and the know-how in fitting it. Variants such as the Arbipainter, Arbitanker and Arbitackler all have their uses.
The Omen is the the Armageddon what the Maller is to the Apocalypse. One is designed for ganking, the other for tanking. There are better gunboats out there though.
Quote:
That was before the nerf-all-EW-xcept-the-scorp patch.
On the contrary, EW was if anything boosted. For those of us who don't fly Caldari ships, EW in it's many forms is now an option. But that's just my opinion.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.05.26 12:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kindakrof
How about we all come together with an open mind for once and try to find a use for all the 'useless' and ingored ships.
...
Gallente: Maulus, Navitas, Atron.
Celestis
Domi (It's not useless but it's the most rare BS around i think)
Well... let's see. Agreed that the Navitas and Atron are pretty useless, but they do have a role as the first thing a new player can afford after the newbie ship. In the beginning, even a Tristan can seem hideously expensive. So I'd say their use is simply "they are cheap".
Maulus: used to be pretty useless (Tristan did everything better), but now it has a role as an EW pvp frigate. Max +25% sensor damp bonus, 3 midslots, and cheap. A few of these can ruin someone's day.
Celestis: like Maulus, used to be totally useless. Now it's actually a pretty good EW cruiser for pvp, pretty much on par with Blackbird as far as the useful factor goes. With the max +25% bonus and good EW skills, four sensor damps are bad news.
Dom: useless? USELESS? Whaaaaaaa... :) Seriously, this is one of the better battleships out there, in my opinion, at least in the "bang for buck" department. A bit tricky to fit (horrible grid) but very versatile, and you can do lots of evil things with that many mids and lowslots. When you see a Dom in pvp, you never know what you're actually facing... and don't underestimate multiple waves of 15 heavy drones.
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Arkanis
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Posted - 2005.05.26 13:01:00 -
[10]
I think a fair few of my corp mates would disagree on the Arbitrator, it's never called primary for some reason. 
Same with the dom, they're extremely useful as both support ships for a POS assault or for fighting and they're never called primary.
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Marria
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Posted - 2005.05.26 13:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kindakrof
(The bantam is crap, nothing we can do. Only useful for noobs mining)
/me remembers u mining in one ^_^
 then you got bored and fitted it for pvp
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Kinsy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 13:26:00 -
[12]
jamesw does very very nicely with a Domi. They are evil, evil things, and in a short range fight, i'd call it primary before it starts cycle-NOSsing your entire fleet, stopping you firing, tanking, jamming...
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Krulla
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Posted - 2005.05.26 13:34:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Krulla on 26/05/2005 13:35:57
Originally by: Kindakrof
Domi (It's not useless but it's the most rare BS around i think)
The Dominix is the single most underrated battleship there is. It is immensely powerful, you just have to think a bit outside the box when fitting it. I've seen dominixes pwn Ravens 1on1 without breaking a sweat.
Oh, and the breacher is great. It's a faster, a bit weaker, version of the kestrel.
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Kindakrof
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:22:00 -
[14]
Ah. Nice to see some comments. I think i missed out on showing people what i meant by saying 'useless', i'll edit my original post a bit.
This is me in the bantam. Marria (once known as pardux) is in the vexor. good ol' days ^^
As i said, the bantam is mostly useless but it is good for noobs to mine in. Nothing else.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:23:00 -
[15]
Edited by: LUKEC on 26/05/2005 14:23:52
this guy don't have a clue what he is talking.
1. after missile patch, domi will be best BS small ship killer
2. crucifier... i wish there were few noobs with weapon disruption skill. With decent skill: optimal decreased by 75%, same with tracking... I wonder if i should put one on vengeance :)
These ships have their strengths... but still kestrel with 4x small launcher is best for n00bs, other fly t2 ships anyway.
Celestis with dampeners: um, locking range reduced by 93% with skills.
Still every race has 6(5) t1 frigs... that makes 20+ ships, some are better some are worst, but you cannot expect all to be popular.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:25:00 -
[16]
/me points to sig.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Waga
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kindakrof
Domi (It's not useless but it's the most rare BS around i think)
what tha heck u talking about dude?
Originally by: Kindakrof
Btw. Please don't be mean. If you feel that i'm stupid then simply don't reply.[/quote]
I doubt you are stupid - I just wonder if u ever been out of your station  |
Novarei
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:33:00 -
[18]
The Inquisitor is a very underused and underrated frigate, I have had some really nice setups on it, a good one i find for taking out frigates and badly equipped cruisers;
High: 2x Standard launchers, 1x Heavy Launcher
Med: 2x Sensor Dampners
Low: 3x MAPC
Fill the launchers with EM missiles and you get some massive damage against unhardened shields and damage is generally good against armour as EM isnt one of the most hardend in tanks :D
With the 2 sensor dampners you can sat at about 20k from a cruiser and pelt them with missiles without them eing able to lock you :D Works best in tandem with other tacklers/frigs.
I have only ever used the Atron exstensivley with an alt, he was my little scavanger when my main character was doing missions, picking up the loot, i should ressurect him D:
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:47:00 -
[19]
Breachers fine as a missle boat (not as good as the kestrel obviously, but faster).
Bellicose, well my Admiral loves the damn thing and flies it everywhere so it must be quite useful in its own way.
Cyclone however, I cant remember the last time we tried to fly one of these bulky unwieldy things in PvP. I have no doubt someone will prove me wrong but there just not very useful, their bonuses dont suit the ship, but then, im sure the Devs get all confused when assigning bonuses to our ships :)
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"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.05.26 14:53:00 -
[20]
cyclone: 720 or 650 artys and as much gyrostabs & sensor boosters you can find.
Basicly any ship in game is best in gank mode :)
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Kindakrof
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Posted - 2005.05.26 15:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Waga
Originally by: Kindakrof
Domi (It's not useless but it's the most rare BS around i think)
what tha heck u talking about dude?
Originally by: Kindakrof
Btw. Please don't be mean. If you feel that i'm stupid then simply don't reply.[/quote]
I doubt you are stupid - I just wonder if u ever been out of your station
Well. It's just what i have seen. You have to admit that there are more ravens, scorps, tempests, geddons, apocs, than the dominixes.
Maybe i just haven't been in the right places to see domis
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.26 16:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
The Omen is the the Armageddon what the Maller is to the Apocalypse. One is designed for ganking, the other for tanking. There are better gunboats out there though.
AFAIK, the Maller can outdamage the Omen.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Bellicose, well my Admiral loves the damn thing and flies it everywhere so it must be quite useful in its own way.
You can throw together a mini gank bellicose with 3 x named 650's, two x hvys. Stuff the lows with pds, gyros and tracking enhancers and still have change from 5mil.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:16:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 26/05/2005 19:16:04
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Rodj Blake
The Omen is the the Armageddon what the Maller is to the Apocalypse. One is designed for ganking, the other for tanking. There are better gunboats out there though.
AFAIK, the Maller can outdamage the Omen.
It does, because even with the Omen's 25% RoF bonus, it cannot fit 4 Heavy Pulse lasers without any grid upgrades, whereas a Maller can fit 5 without grid upgrades. Resulting in 2 more guns AND more damage mods.
EIDT: Typo
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 26/05/2005 19:16:04
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Rodj Blake
The Omen is the the Armageddon what the Maller is to the Apocalypse. One is designed for ganking, the other for tanking. There are better gunboats out there though.
AFAIK, the Maller can outdamage the Omen.
It does, because even with the Omen's 25% RoF bonus, it cannot fit 4 Heavy Pulse lasers without any grid upgrades, whereas a Maller can fit 5 without grid upgrades. Resulting in 2 more guns AND more damage mods.
EIDT: Typo
Yes, I'm rather hoping that the "big cruiser boost" that was mentioned in the latest dev blog asseses (sp?) some of these blatant shortfalls in some cruisers.
-------------
Originally by: Gnauton
It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 26/05/2005 19:16:04
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Rodj Blake
The Omen is the the Armageddon what the Maller is to the Apocalypse. One is designed for ganking, the other for tanking. There are better gunboats out there though.
AFAIK, the Maller can outdamage the Omen.
It does, because even with the Omen's 25% RoF bonus, it cannot fit 4 Heavy Pulse lasers without any grid upgrades, whereas a Maller can fit 5 without grid upgrades. Resulting in 2 more guns AND more damage mods.
EIDT: Typo
Cruisers really do need rehaul
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
EIDT: Typo
 sorry made me laugh
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Capacitor research |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:27:00 -
[28]
Hush.
Only just noticed myself. 
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 26/05/2005 19:16:04
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Rodj Blake
The Omen is the the Armageddon what the Maller is to the Apocalypse. One is designed for ganking, the other for tanking. There are better gunboats out there though.
AFAIK, the Maller can outdamage the Omen.
It does, because even with the Omen's 25% RoF bonus, it cannot fit 4 Heavy Pulse lasers without any grid upgrades, whereas a Maller can fit 5 without grid upgrades. Resulting in 2 more guns AND more damage mods.
EIDT: Typo
Cruisers really do need rehaul
Very true Meridius. Personally, I loved and fully supported your post a while back on the subject. I really think that it was a major contributing factor in CCP finally having a look at cruisers.
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siim
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Posted - 2005.05.26 19:31:00 -
[30]
bantam was my first ship
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