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Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:32:00 - [31] Originally by: keepiru Yes, I'm rather hoping that the "big cruiser boost" that was mentioned in the latest dev blog asseses (sp?) some of these blatant shortfalls in some cruisers. IIRC it was mentioned yes but not as a big cruiser boost. It sounded like a small upgrade, something quick because they are focusing on other stuff. I could be wrong but i'm fairly sure it did sound like a minor upgrade rather then what it should be, a rehaul of sorts... ________________________________________________________
Uriel Arcondus	Posted - 2005.05.26 20:08:00 - [32] There is a cruiser that can get more then 8868 armour. Now go find out yourselfs.
Kindakrof	Posted - 2005.05.26 20:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Uriel Arcondus There is a cruiser that can get more then 8868 armour. Now go find out yourselfs. CoughMallercough -------------------
Siroc	Posted - 2005.05.26 21:12:00 - [34] hmm.... I am mostly minmatar pilot, so here is my take on our frigates: I will not talk about Vigil, Rifter, Probe (all 3 considered some of the best frigates in the game). Slasher: one of the best newbe war frigates. Compare it to Atron, Executor or Condor? at 30k price you get 3 high mounts (1 extra comparing to other races) you can outfit with 2 guns and missle launcher, shield booster, AB. I fail to see how this ship is useless. Maybe for old players it is, but its a great stepping stone for a bigger Rifter or Breacher. Breacher: its weaker then Kestrel? Why do people keep telling me this BS. Ship has 4 highs, it has huge adventage of speed, its very easy to make it to outrun missles you are going against in level 1-2 missions. I used to do level 3 missions in that ship before level 4 were introduced. Its missing 1 launcher slot, but you can put smart bomb in that slot and at your speed, you will be able to avoid most of the missles. 3 missle launchers make quick work of any targets you will be fighting in it. So if you want a tanking missle boat, go with Kestrel, but if you want a missle boat that uses its speed to do the tanking, Breacher is a great.
Lucas Vicenzo	Posted - 2005.05.26 21:18:00 - [35] Originally by: Uriel Arcondus There is a cruiser that can get more then 8868 armour. Now go find out yourselfs. Wow, thats awesome, I bet with that setup it takes at least a minute and a half to die. Boring the other person isnt the best pvp tactic.
Kindakrof	Posted - 2005.05.26 21:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Siroc hmm.... I am mostly minmatar pilot, so here is my take on our frigates: I will not talk about Vigil, Rifter, Probe (all 3 considered some of the best frigates in the game). Slasher: one of the best newbe war frigates. Compare it to Atron, Executor or Condor? at 30k price you get 3 high mounts (1 extra comparing to other races) you can outfit with 2 guns and missle launcher, shield booster, AB. I fail to see how this ship is useless. Maybe for old players it is, but its a great stepping stone for a bigger Rifter or Breacher. Breacher: its weaker then Kestrel? Why do people keep telling me this BS. Ship has 4 highs, it has huge adventage of speed, its very easy to make it to outrun missles you are going against in level 1-2 missions. I used to do level 3 missions in that ship before level 4 were introduced. Its missing 1 launcher slot, but you can put smart bomb in that slot and at your speed, you will be able to avoid most of the missles. 3 missle launchers make quick work of any targets you will be fighting in it. So if you want a tanking missle boat, go with Kestrel, but if you want a missle boat that uses its speed to do the tanking, Breacher is a great. Please read the red text at the top. About the breacher. It is not by any chance weaker than a Kestrel. It packs a little less firepower and less hp. But it has speed. I use one for example and it does great for scouting and tackling and i would rather want a breacher than a kestrel if you ask me. I rarely see people use one. Reasons are probably : Vigil is a better choice for tackling. And the Kestrel is more newbie-friendly -------------------
Medreena	Posted - 2005.05.26 21:50:00 - [37] I wonder how much objection there would be to replacing the current domanix model, its the ugliest ship iv ever had the misfortune to look at. Which is a shame really. ~The other ships mentiond here are on the edge of usefulness in most cases, they just need one or two tweaks more each. ie. an extra med slot and more cap for the breacher, or a extra high slot for the heron. IMO some frigs need to be noob orientated but ccp need to look over these little frigs and see if there is any way to get some more fun out of them! The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is for Good Men to Do Nothing...
Noriath	Posted - 2005.05.26 22:14:00 - [38] The Dominix is acctually an awsome ship, it just gets a bad name because close range fighting is so pointless in this game. Also you just need a lot of skills to push a Dominix to its full potential, since it is one of the few battleships that acctually truely benefits from having droneskills maxed out...
wappy	Posted - 2005.05.26 22:55:00 - [39] For the DOMI it is just underrated because you need an insane amount of skills to make it work. But it is as versatile as a ship gets to be for example. gank shield tank setup works but needs high shield cap and gunnery skills gank ew setup works but then again needs high ew cap and gunnery skills Tank setup works as well but needs to downgrade guns to cruiser sized and with good skills second best armor tank in game 2L reps forever with 3 hardners and then again never forget to train the 3 most important skills for the domi being HEAVY DRONE OPERATION 5 DRONE INTERFACING 5 SCOUT DRONE OP 5 with all of that if you can't make it work try something else this ship aint meant for you and yes after missile nerf Drones will be the only weapon left vs smaller ships and painters ofcourse just my 2 isk
Kindakrof	Posted - 2005.05.26 23:47:00 - [40] Originally by: wappy For the DOMI it is just underrated because you need an insane amount of skills to make it work. But it is as versatile as a ship gets to be for example. gank shield tank setup works but needs high shield cap and gunnery skills gank ew setup works but then again needs high ew cap and gunnery skills Tank setup works as well but needs to downgrade guns to cruiser sized and with good skills second best armor tank in game 2L reps forever with 3 hardners and then again never forget to train the 3 most important skills for the domi being HEAVY DRONE OPERATION 5 DRONE INTERFACING 5 SCOUT DRONE OP 5 with all of that if you can't make it work try something else this ship aint meant for you and yes after missile nerf Drones will be the only weapon left vs smaller ships and painters ofcourse just my 2 isk Agreed. Tho the 6x heavy nos, good enuff tank for 1 vs. 1 BS and the MWD/ab, warp dis, web and maybe a cap rechargers is a good setup. you let the heavy drones deal the dmg while disabling most of the opposing ships options with the cap drain. Tho this is only good for 1 vs 1 battleship i think. Also the skills. Drone interfacing isn't neccesary unless it takes less time than training gallente battleship lvl 4. -------------------
Noriath	Posted - 2005.05.27 02:38:00 - [41] Piloting a Dominix without maxing drones is just silly if you ask me...
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.05.27 06:45:00 - [42] The Atron is an excellent scout. Fit an MWD and a cloak on it and you'll see. It can uncloak and hit +2000m/s in a second. The Navitas is one of the underdogs of the game. Consider this: Would you rather go to 0.0 and mine in a slow barge that gets all the attention and fired upon, or an unusually cool looking frigate with -60% mining cap usage that can easily slip by camped gates? Of course it only fits 2 lasers, and those are not even tech2, but what good is a "better miner" if it is a dead miner? Also remember that next to Transport ships, frigate sized vessels are the best ships for trading. You can move around millions worth of zydrine and megacyte in one, with much higher speed, agility and acceleration than any other ship. Besides, if there is another hauler around, campers tends to shoot at them instead of "just another newbie in a frigate carrying wheat at best".
Voltron	Posted - 2005.05.27 07:33:00 - [43] I've used the bellicose with some success, don't get me started on the augoror........that thing is my tard squad ship of choice . Just come up with imaginative setups for these ships, the best part about them is that no one ever see's them so they have no freakin clue how you're gonna have it set up. Volt
Eraza	Posted - 2005.05.27 09:27:00 - [44] replacing the dominix model? are you mad? that thing looks awesome imo :P arbitrator useless? well, if you have maxed drone skills, no ship with a drone bonus is useless.. i have seen many frigate pvpers run when i launch the drones i would pick a breacher over a kestrel any day, as for most frigates, speed = life :) the ships i find most useless(and i'm surprised noone has mentioned them) is destroyers, seriously.. ok, the gallente one is great for fighting rouge drones, just fit blasters, and most rouges come flying right into your optimal range other then that, i still say they are outclassed by the biggest frigates in most cases.. mabey i'm missing something.. but i for one, do not see them having a point besides a small stepping stone, for noobs who cant quite afford a crusier yet.. :)
Riddari	Posted - 2005.05.27 11:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Kindakrof Caldari: Heron, Condor, Griffin. (The bantam is crap, nothing we can do. Only useful for noobs mining) Heron... I've not seen it able to do anything that Condor or Griffin can't do better. Useless and ugly. Condor is an ok fast-frigate for running around in and maybe do some tackle work. I checked out the Griffin after the EW changes and that lil frigate can be a mean contributor in PVP EW. Originally by: Kindakrof Gallente: Maulus, Atron, (Navitas got removed since it's just a mini-imicus) Celestis Dominix. Maulus might be an OK contributor in PVP as a support vessel... Atron.. ok to run around in. Navitas... bah. Celestis was an OK-ish mission/NPC cruiser before it was changed to EW cruiser. Haven't tested it after that. Dominix.. I have 3m in drones and can launch 14 heavy drones and tank it to hell. Lovely. Originally by: Kindakrof Minmatar: Slasher, Breacher Bellicose - Nothing more here i feel. Slasher is a nice little fast runner Breacher can be quite dangerous but a very tight ship to fit. Bellicose is a nice little level 2-3 agent ship, the missiles being one of it's strengths. Originally by: Kindakrof Amarr: Inquisitor, Tormentor, Crucifier, Executioner. Auguror (It's not a mining ship), Arbitrator!, Omen. Inquisitor is vastly underrated by the general populace but the CVA have been using them for a while and posted about it on IG summit. Mini-kestrel. Tormentor.. this little ship meant that I was never going to select an Amarr character since it was the beginner ship for Amarrians in beta. I really hated it. Crucifier is an ok EW frigate. Executioner is a nice frigate for pilots to learn how to pilot a combat frigate, very limited but also very fast. Use it as your noob mission runner and to take down those nasty npcs (frigate ones). Augoror - for those who want to be really different and pack 8000 armor into a single cruiser. Only useful as a bait :D Arbitrator - mini-dominix, very useful. Omen - The advantage it has above maller is it's drones. While a maller will be screwed (even sometimes with a standard web) against a frigate or interceptor, the Omen can at least call on some drone help. Pack it with heat sinks and use as a cheap mini-version of Armageddon. The price difference between it and Maller is a vital factor. ¼©¼ a history
NoTalent	Posted - 2005.05.27 12:02:00 - [46] Originally by: Kindakrof Minmatar: Slasher, Breacher Bellicose - Nothing more here i feel. Slasher is a nice little fast runner Breacher can be quite dangerous but a very tight ship to fit. Bellicose is a nice little level 2-3 agent ship, the missiles being one of it's strengths. Hi, (this is more for newish players btw) I totally agree about the Bellicose, though with a small bit of effort 2x 720 + 3x Hvy Missle can be fitted and you can cause decent damage up to 48KM quite easily. The 10% Optimal per level is the real plus on this ship, factor in your own skills, and the Optimal range for you harder hitting ammo (Dep Uranium, Fusion etc)gets up to a very decent range. I would highly recommend this ship to other new pilots like myself. You will walk lv2 missions in this, lv3 will take a bit of effort. Keep your range at 40KM plus, this ship is a bit fragile. cheers NT
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2005.05.27 15:36:00 - [47] I used griffins alot with sensor dampeners. Great support for a frig-only fleet. But since dampeners eat up to much cap now, they're almost useless.
Dirtball	Posted - 2005.05.27 15:40:00 - [48] aside from teh incursus, which is not in the useless ship list for obvious reasons, the ship I've had the most fun in is a Griffin, it pwns, the cormorant kind of makes it obsolete now though.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.05.27 16:37:00 - [49] Rofl @ Dominix being useless...Its the most pwnage bs in the game. (Well not really but its pretty bad ass) --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Ohotnik	Posted - 2005.05.27 16:38:00 - [50] my bad. Did not realize you were sarcastic. :) Main defence of frigate is speed. Breacher has it. I went through all of level 1/2/3 missions in it (before they have introduced multi stage missions), so I love that ship. Its ability to survive where Kestrel will die is amazing. Its my favorite minmatar frigate. As for firepower, to survive in most level 2/3 missions Kestrel needs missle protection, so it looses its 4th missle slot to defenders or smart bomb anyway. So we come down to same thing. Originally by: Kindakrof Please read the red text at the top. About the breacher. It is not by any chance weaker than a Kestrel. It packs a little less firepower and less hp. But it has speed. I use one for example and it does great for scouting and tackling and i would rather want a breacher than a kestrel if you ask me. I rarely see people use one. Reasons are probably : Vigil is a better choice for tackling. And the Kestrel is more newbie-friendly
Bhal'rog	Posted - 2005.05.27 18:31:00 - [51] who flies a Burst? I don't think I've ever seen one in space. My agent gave me a dozen, unsaleable, eventually had to melt them.
Daiken	Posted - 2005.05.27 19:28:00 - [52] You are so right dude... dominix sucks bigtime.. SO COULD EVERYONE PLEASE STOP FLYING IT? strokes his Dominix ---------------------
Rapturea	Posted - 2005.05.27 19:35:00 - [53] the fact that the maulus, celestis, and domi are even on that list shows how much research you really did on this subject... not much at all When I was a kid my favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school we'd all go play in his cave, and every once in a while he would eat one of us. It wasn't until later that I found out that Uncle Caveman was a bear. -jack handy
Kindakrof	Posted - 2005.05.29 02:30:00 - [54] Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan The Atron is an excellent scout. Fit an MWD and a cloak on it and you'll see. It can uncloak and hit +2000m/s in a second. The Navitas is one of the underdogs of the game. Consider this: Would you rather go to 0.0 and mine in a slow barge that gets all the attention and fired upon, or an unusually cool looking frigate with -60% mining cap usage that can easily slip by camped gates? Of course it only fits 2 lasers, and those are not even tech2, but what good is a "better miner" if it is a dead miner? Also remember that next to Transport ships, frigate sized vessels are the best ships for trading. You can move around millions worth of zydrine and megacyte in one, with much higher speed, agility and acceleration than any other ship. Besides, if there is another hauler around, campers tends to shoot at them instead of "just another newbie in a frigate carrying wheat at best". Agreed. Tho they will probably just die to ceptor-rats -------------------
Kindakrof	Posted - 2005.05.29 02:32:00 - [55] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Rofl @ Dominix being useless...Its the most pwnage bs in the game. (Well not really but its pretty bad ass) You are not reading the crucial parts... -------------------
Skuld OdinsDottir	Posted - 2005.05.29 11:48:00 - [56] Originally by: Daiken You are so right dude... dominix sucks bigtime.. SO COULD EVERYONE PLEASE STOP FLYING IT? strokes his Dominix i thought you meant "Dominatrix". Liquid dreams filled her mind as she found herself sinking into an eternal ocean of blood. An ocean she had created over the severed flesh of her assigned targets.
Sarkos	Posted - 2005.05.29 12:38:00 - [57] Slasher: A fast, cheap ship with good overall firepower. Breacher: 3x rocket launchers with Phalanx rockets, 1x 125mm Gat, load the low slots with ballistic controls and you have a killer. It gets a damage bonus with all explosive damage rockets and missiles. Load the rocket launchers with Defenders, and you have a Kestral killer. It's very fast and deadly. Bellicose: With my skills, using 650mm guns, I can hit out to 60km. 720mm is tough to do because of a low cap, but it can be done. It is a simply a sniper cruiser, and set with a good AB can reach very nice speeds. No ship is useless in the right hands. :) Sarkos Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
StarLite	Posted - 2005.05.29 13:35:00 - [58] Any Destroyer basicly, altho with some armor plating they might be handy vs single ceptors, an AF will outclass any dessie :P Destroyers would be cool if they had some more HP, they are simply to slow and sluggish for a ship with T1 frig-sized shield and armor ___________________________________________________
Kindakrof	Posted - 2005.05.29 14:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Sarkos Bellicose: With my skills, using 650mm guns, I can hit out to 60km. 720mm is tough to do because of a low cap, but it can be done. It is a simply a sniper cruiser, and set with a good AB can reach very nice speeds. I fail to see what cap problems the 720mm guns will give it since they only have 1 point activation cost wich is the same as the 650's. Lets look a bit into it. Matbe i'm doing this wrong but if i am you just call me stupid. 720mm's = 20 km optimal. Carbonized lead gives 60% range = 20 x 1.60 = 32 km. Lets assume i have the minmatar cruiser skill lvl 4. 32 x 1.4 = 44.8 km optimal + 17 km falloff. Gives us a 61.8 km maximum range. But with the sharpshooter skill at lvl 4 (20% more optimal) it gives us 44.8km x 1.2 = 53.76 km optimal range wich gives us a 70.76 km maximum range. It's a really good sniper but the Harpy can also shoot that far i think. -------------------
Wanna Kill	Posted - 2005.05.29 14:45:00 - [60] Executioner, USELESS I'm using it as a 'blockade-runner' / pickup-ship. Fact 1: It is cheap, and so is the modules. Fact 2: It is very fast. Fact 3: It can fit mwd, cap relays and overdrives. Fact 4: It CAN also fit 2 small lasers, but thats more as ''emergency'' if you should be webbed by another frig, wich isn't very good combat fitted. ---------- If you want a Sig, a banner or anything 'GFX' -Contact 'Wanna Kill' (space between the 2 words)

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