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Geldorf Drakar
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Posted - 2005.05.26 21:54:00 -
[31]
Aye, T2 BS will just add a new element, people will adapt and learn how to take them out in no time at all. Nothing is invincable
"Long live the Emperor"
Opinions expressed above are mine and mine only |
kessah
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Posted - 2005.05.26 22:33:00 -
[32]
Its very odd you say this as i was just thinking about this is work 2nite.
I Totally agree T2 battleships are not needed, i feel if anyting perhaps add a skill that requires battleships lvl 5 and adds a 3rd bonus to the new skill.
Added resistance to the apoc, added missle rof to the raven, added range for the geddon, added ammo capacity for tempest, a missle bonus for phoon etc etc etc just an example but i feel that t2 battleships will ruin the already fragile "pvp" equalibrium of eve.
Far to many people in eve have gotten lucky with BPo's and hold a monopoly on the other players in eve. i feel the researching in eve brings a very clever edge to the game but theres nuffin really involved in that aspect of the game if you catch my drift.
I feel battleships are a everymans top ship to fly yes nubs can fly them too but why not just increase the bonus's through higher spec with the current battleships. perhaps if you fly an apoc more you can spec in that ship.
The dreadnaught and Titan are the only ships i feel current battleship should need to run from its already hard enuf to get ppl to fight you.
These are just ideas but i feel strongly that a t2 battleship is definetly not needed.
A finally cure to this problem would be to bring out a "3rd" battleship chassie to each race to create more diversity. making them no more powerful than the t1 battleship. Tho i doubt CCP have the time to create a new battleship model.
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Im Your Huckleberry ;-)
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.05.26 22:41:00 -
[33]
This thread has a lot of scared children in it.
What don't you get, 500mil+ loss if you lose a t2 bs.
In a fleet? Yeah, you're first target buddy, killing you will only take a few sec longer then normal and your death equates to around close to a dozen battleships.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.05.26 23:31:00 -
[34]
Considering the current style of t2 progression, applying it to battleships would be a bad idea.
I notice those who want t2 bs argue that since t2 bs will be much more expensive and much longer to train skills for, it will make things okay. This is wrong type of thinking for a game design. Game balance of ships and modules should never rely on money and training time. It should only rely on relationships to other ships and modules.
If you get t2 bs the way other t2 ships are, you will have relatively few people flying them. However, most other people who can't fly them will pretty much "have to" train to use them and spend money on them. For many people, the thought of playing the game without t2 bs would become unbearable. They wouldn't enjoy the game much anymore, as they would have to spend tons of time and money just to be competitive.
To have a game with very enjoyable combat mechanics, you gotta make it very balanced strictly from combat perspective. Money and time are not part of combat mechanics. Of course EVE is much more than just combat, so there is definitely room for money and time in overall balance of things. But you gotta be careful not to make combat balance to heavily dependent on non-combat things.
I'm sure a group of elite old players will get a big kick of flying super ships and wtfpwning everyone. But the majority of players will not enjoy it. Some because they wouldn't like combat imbalance. Others because they are unable to fly the superships.
As most people pointed out, EVE combat mechanics have little room for t2 battleships. It would be a bad move to introduce those, no matter how expensive and time consuming they are.
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Hyey
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Posted - 2005.05.26 23:47:00 -
[35]
Lol so many worried peoples here.
Can the game support a t2 hac like BS right now? Not really, but you wont see many, there arent many BS lvl 5 people out there, and tbh, even though I probably have the skills to use one, I wouldnt. I simply dont have 500mil to just throw away flying one of these ships in any large engagement.
Once dreadnaughts come in there will be room for t2 BS, but as said there will not be enough of them to cause a balance shift unless the market gets flooded with t2 components.
Oh and to the person that said that 5 regular BS outclass a t2 BS with hac resistance. Be careful there buddy, take a CNR and put a gist booster and other stuff on it and it can tank 4 BS rather nicely. Now imagine that CNR with Hac like resistances and bigger cap, and the same shields, and probably more firepower, and low slots... see where im getting at here? Trust me any tech 2 lvl BS im ever going to possess will be totally pimped out with my Gist XL booster, I assure you of that. Any investment like that needs the really extremely good mods to make it worthwhile.
~~
Hyey
I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
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Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2005.05.26 23:58:00 -
[36]
It won't be that bad. I don't think one tech 2 BS would be a problem for a fleet of 5-8 fast moving frigates.
Honestly tech 2 Battleships will be flying targets. Guess who gets to be primary target every time?
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kessah
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Posted - 2005.05.27 00:24:00 -
[37]
Guys remember not all of us fly in fleets - you must relise like the guy said above combat is quite a delicate balance.
Right now i like that anyone with average skills can get into a battleship and play with and kill other players who have been in the game longer. It brings diversity. Dreadnaughts are far enuf to be fair.
Its not the case of being scared its the case of it being more reliant on "skills" and not the super ship you fly. Yes they require skills but its due to you having a different ship class which can only be taken out if a) your outnumbered and b) outclassed and i doubt dreadnaught will be as abudent as battleship are at the moment.
I feel CCP really needs think long and hard before they make a decision on these ships. Combat in eve is a very delicate balance. As we all know from the long over due missle nerf and countless other changes to lasers and proj weaponary.
I feel the whole community needs to think long and hard at the issue and not be biased becus you have the skills and money.
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Im Your Huckleberry ;-)
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aeti
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Posted - 2005.05.27 00:30:00 -
[38]
errr
I wouldn't mind a tech 2 assault apoc
something that can actually tank gank setups would be nice, k? :/
bs sized sac would be yummy
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Amargan Nagil
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Posted - 2005.05.27 01:17:00 -
[39]
tech 2 BS's are already here in the form of fleet faction battleships-those ships with all your skills cpaped-must be damn near invincible-nightmare faction BS has 9000 armor stat-+25% with hull skill-wow thats 11500 armor strength-its impregnable!
SPACE NOOB:
heh-keep checking that wallet for me!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yeah its my bunny! all mine! |
Kayosoni
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Posted - 2005.05.27 01:21:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kayosoni on 27/05/2005 01:22:32
slothe, please die of drowning.
But no, just because cruisers suck, and insurance is in the game is no reason to not want tech 2 BS.
The problem with eve is:
1) too easy to make tons of cash
2) cruisers suck and are useless
3) INSURANCE!!!!
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Currently Playing Lineage 2 - Erica Server |
aeti
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Posted - 2005.05.27 01:22:00 -
[41]
 Originally by: Amargan Nagil
tech 2 BS's are already here in the form of fleet faction battleships-those ships with all your skills cpaped-must be damn near invincible-nightmare faction BS has 9000 armor stat-+25% with hull skill-wow thats 11500 armor strength-its impregnable!
the navy apoc is a lot lot better than the nightmare in that respect
the nightmare just doesn't have the cap imo
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2005.05.27 01:26:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kayosoni
slothe, please die of drowning.
For once I must agree with Kayosoni.
Today is a sad day in eve's history.
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Amargan Nagil
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Posted - 2005.05.27 01:44:00 -
[43]
if you want your cruiser to rock-you need skills capped and tech 2 fittings-then the cruiser is fun and agile-and has 25% bonus to shields hull and armor-as well as your ROF bonuses damamge and optimal range! then a cruiser rocks more!
SPACE NOOB:
heh-keep checking that wallet for me!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yeah its my bunny! all mine! |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2005.05.27 02:08:00 -
[44]
The message in this thread is basically "my corp sucks, other corps are uber". Well that didnt came out of nowhere, yes bob/g/whatever alliance/groups/corps usually have access to t2 stuff, not because someone gave it to them, but due to their dedication and hard work.
Which is as it should be, all players individually have same base for playing the game at equal level, namely skill training goes on while you are offline.
The organization of above mentioned corps and their logistics are the only things that distinguish them from casual "2 hours a week" players. I am not preaching that playing a mmorpg for 4-8 hours a day is a healthy thing to do, but since we are all adults, if someone choses to do it, its their business.
It's not like ppl that play often level up faster then other ppl.
As for balance of things, well as stated, a loss of a t2 battleship with projected prices based on HAC prices, would deal bigger blow then losing 5 or even 10 regular battleships, which kinda defeats its purpose. The number of people that would be able to solo that kind of money and participate in pvp solo is very low. Imagine the number of hunters that a rumour that some hostile is out there in t2 bs would generate in any alliance chat.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.05.27 02:13:00 -
[45]
Huhhhhh... Well I think releasing Tech II Battleships now would fubar the game. But that has more to do with the imbalance of cruisers and generally Battleships vs Smaller ships. Once that is done, it won't matter if ATUK/Shinra/BoB/FZN/Jesus can fly a T2 BS fleet. But considering T2 Bships are probably not going to be in until this winter, that makes me wonder at the relevance of this thread, yeh?
Similarily, you can use the same argument against Dreads or Titans.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Amargan Nagil
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Posted - 2005.05.27 02:24:00 -
[46]
no tech 2 battleships please-only dreadnoughts or titans-whatever they would be called...-giant "gun platforms" that move at 50km per sec,can fit up to 16 large turrets-and can only warp at 1 AU/sec is all they should add-that would add in well with the freighters also!
then we would have these hulking "deathstar" class ships to attack POS's in!
as far as battleships go-they are right and fine with the fleet issue ships-they shouldnt touch a thing or add tech 2 in my opinion!
SPACE NOOB:
heh-keep checking that wallet for me!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yeah its my bunny! all mine! |
Amargan Nagil
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Posted - 2005.05.27 02:29:00 -
[47]
no tech 2 battleships please-only dreadnoughts or titans-whatever they would be called...-giant "gun platforms" that move at 50km per sec,can fit up to 16 large turrets-and can only warp at 1 AU/sec is all they should add-that would add in well with the freighters also!
then we would have these hulking "deathstar" class ships to attack POS's in!
as far as battleships go-they are right and fine with the fleet issue ships-they shouldnt touch a thing or add tech 2 in my opinion!
SPACE NOOB:
heh-keep checking that wallet for me!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yeah its my bunny! all mine! |
Amargan Nagil
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Posted - 2005.05.27 02:30:00 -
[48]
my bad double posted 
SPACE NOOB:
heh-keep checking that wallet for me!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yeah its my bunny! all mine! |
kessah
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Posted - 2005.05.27 02:39:00 -
[49]
Edited by: kessah on 27/05/2005 02:43:57
ahhhh **** it - carry on cant be assed
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Im Your Huckleberry ;-)
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.05.27 03:26:00 -
[50]
How about tier 3 BS instead first?
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.05.27 05:39:00 -
[51]
T2 flagship bs is the most retarded thing ive ever heard. Do any of you suggesting this know how much dmg a decent fleet puts out? Show me a ship that can tank 50 gankships
It will be first target and die every time.
And for christs sake dont make them super heavy assualts, make them specialised for roles, vampires etc.
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Phoenicia
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:09:00 -
[52]
I say give them one huge vulnerability. IŠve had this idea about black ops cruisers, giving them the ability to "hack" into other ships and get a number of options, such as:
- Take over/disable fire control
- Sabotage shields
- Eject pilot (I love this one, but it may be overpowered :p)
- Activate warp
Now if the T2 BSes and/or Dreads would receive added vulnerability to the above, it would make things interesting. Real interesting.
Or maybe something a bit more "Classic", like a vulnerable spot in the ship that takes like... 5 minutes to lock on to, but give a 10x damage bonus when hit.
You know, like a certain exhaust port on a certain moonlike structure....
That would also make Stealth Bombers actual Dread/T2 BS killers actually... Low lock time, high damage. Hm!
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CCP deleted my sig pic cause it was 50 pixels too wide and all I got was this lousy text. |
darth solo
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:54:00 -
[53]
slothe, i say give them the BPs AND the uber fleets... this will maybe make up for their lack of ability in actual combat .
d solo.
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:09:00 -
[54]
what's the use of a Tech II BS as a flagship? when you call a target it's dead, with or without a flagship
plus only a small portion of the eve community participates in fleet battles, so might be too narrow use for flagships.
please note that nearly everytime CCP makes a ship type too dedicated it turns out like complete crap (logistics, anybody? bombers?)
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
MrRookie
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:16:00 -
[55]
I think most people expect the tech 2 BSs to be ultra heavy assault ships. Remember not all tech 2 ships have 4 bonuses applying to their guns and got uber resistance. Tech 2 BSs could be specialized in other ways, like ceptors have their speed and logistic cruisers etc. I sure dont hope they bring in any ultra heavy assaults with super resistance and 8 low slots for more hardners and 4 dmg bonuses...
I belive someone read in the devblog that tech 2 BSs will be some sort of flagships with some taktical specialazion of some sort. If this is the case I`m fine with having tech 2s
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy... 
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
kessah
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Posted - 2005.05.27 11:54:00 -
[56]
Bring in a 3rd battleship chassie for each race that be kewl - would be kinda good after the dissapointing battlecruisers.
--------------------------------------------------------
Im Your Huckleberry ;-)
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Lysender
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:23:00 -
[57]
Originally by: slothe
Edited by: slothe on 26/05/2005 17:55:31
Everytime i think of T2 battleships i just picture waves of ATUK / SHINRA / G / IMP / EVOL fleets all in T2 bs, heavy assaults and inties flying around wtfpwning everyone else.
I know that mechanics have led to the demise of alliances and the growth of ubercorps but wont this make it much worse?
The ubercorps will snap up the bpo, have the resources to build and are likely to limit output to themselves.
New corps will have less chance to get into 0.0 and it would lead to 0.0 being even more restricted as smaller fleets could roam around wtfpwnt2killing everyone else.
Id rather T2 bs were not introduced at all. t2 heavy assault are enough... arent they?
Evolution are a bunch of great guys, why would you fear them in the first place?
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:43:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Amargan Nagil
no tech 2 battleships please-only dreadnoughts or titans-whatever they would be called...-giant "gun platforms" that move at 50km per sec
I'm surprised nobody caught this yet.
XL turrets and 50 KM a sec.
How's the tracking on those large/XL guns at that speed. And i'd luv to see just my inty do 50KM/sec. who needs warp speed. I bet them turrets wouldn't hit a planet.
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ebil yar
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:48:00 -
[59]
Why, they will roxx, and give us BS pilots someone new to play with. 
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Omatje
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:48:00 -
[60]
But i need a T2 BS to get through the .4 sniper dreads gatecamping there!
Why dont we all f1f2f3 eachother? |
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