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Please dont bring in T2 battleships

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slothe	Posted - 2005.05.26 17:55:00 - [1] Edited by: slothe on 26/05/2005 17:55:31 Everytime i think of T2 battleships i just picture waves of ATUK / SHINRA / G / IMP / EVOL fleets all in T2 bs, heavy assaults and inties flying around wtfpwning everyone else. I know that mechanics have led to the demise of alliances and the growth of ubercorps but wont this make it much worse? The ubercorps will snap up the bpo, have the resources to build and are likely to limit output to themselves. New corps will have less chance to get into 0.0 and it would lead to 0.0 being even more restricted as smaller fleets could roam around wtfpwnt2killing everyone else. Id rather T2 bs were not introduced at all. t2 heavy assault are enough... arent they? Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public" http://www.khainestar.com/eve
Branmuffin	Posted - 2005.05.26 17:59:00 - [2] I don't think we're likely to see super heavy assault ships. Heavy Logistics ships and flagships are my bet for t2 bs.
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.05.26 17:59:00 - [3] I must agree. As it stands, Battleships are more of a multitool, and Heavy Assault Ships are the uber-specialised things that are (arguably) the best at what they do, but not much use for anything else. A T2 combat battleship would, IMO, be too much. - Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
Krulla	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:00:00 - [4] I agree. The game cannot handle them. A tech II BS will basically be invincible. It will be top dog, it will have no fears. Currently, all tech II ships have something to fear, something bigger than them, and more powerful. Also, as a side note, they will completely mess up PvE. Tech II BSs will be able to solo level 4 missions with their eyes closed even after they make them harder.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:01:00 - [5] Yes, I think it will be Flagships for Tier 2 BSes and Tier 1...dunno ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Magunus	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:11:00 - [6] Oveur mentioned in either a blog or devchat that the vision for tech 2 battleships was more of a flagship than an uber damage dealer. No super-heavy assaults, more like tactical fleet command ships. (Hmmm... tactical overview of an entire system, accomplished by a module that will only fit on those ships. Just a random thought.) Besides, uber corp or no, if I get that BPO, you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Repeatedly. Until I run out of money for clones. And that'll take a while. :P --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Twin blade	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Krulla I agree. The game cannot handle them. A tech II BS will basically be invincible. It will be top dog, it will have no fears. Currently, all tech II ships have something to fear, something bigger than them, and more powerful. Also, as a side note, they will completely mess up PvE. Tech II BSs will be able to solo level 4 missions with their eyes closed even after they make them harder. You forgot about dreads they will be able to destroyer any tec 2 BS in the blink of an eye. I do think that if they are ever put in game level 4 need to be made fleet only and made a lot lot lot harder so no 1 Tec 2 BS can just go in and wipe the floor with it.
Leno	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Magunus Oveur mentioned in either a blog or devchat that the vision for tech 2 battleships was more of a flagship than an uber damage dealer. No super-heavy assaults, more like tactical fleet command ships. (Hmmm... tactical overview of an entire system, accomplished by a module that will only fit on those ships. Just a random thought.) Besides, uber corp or no, if I get that BPO, you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Repeatedly. Until I run out of money for clones. And that'll take a while. :P especially with all the isk you will be making ^^ --------------- RIP - Smoske, My Friend
Selim	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:15:00 - [9] I agree, t2 battleships should be something different than current t2 plan of adding damage and tankability.
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:21:00 - [10] If things progress as before, yeah, a T2 BS in the same vein as hacs to cruisers, tanks acheived would be insane. Eg. T2 raven. Put on XL T2 booster, and a boost amp, and an active thermal and kinetic. Taking it to 85/90% resists, and 156 every second repaired. Running a guristas, they would need to be doing over 1200 damage a second to overcome the tank. And that setup is using a whole 4 slots. With the capacitors on t2 ships generally being a lot better, running that sustained wouldn't be a problem. So yeha, i think T2 battleships shouldn't have their bonuses based around combat like the hac. Tier 2 maybe flagship as said, giving bonuses similar to the leadership bonuses maybe? Tier 1 ships im not sure either. Maybe if T2 drones are introduced, they would be restricted to T2 ships? EW would be stronger on the scorp maybe, not sure on typhoon/armageddon. (Maybe give typhoon some pg ) \| Don't be a bad loser \|
Magunus	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:36:00 - [11] Originally by: Leno Originally by: Magunus Oveur mentioned in either a blog or devchat that the vision for tech 2 battleships was more of a flagship than an uber damage dealer. No super-heavy assaults, more like tactical fleet command ships. (Hmmm... tactical overview of an entire system, accomplished by a module that will only fit on those ships. Just a random thought.) Besides, uber corp or no, if I get that BPO, you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. Repeatedly. Until I run out of money for clones. And that'll take a while. :P especially with all the isk you will be making ^^ Yup. Of course, I said the same thing about the tech 2 EW modules. And assault cruisers. And transports. Actually, I've said that about everything since interceptors. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Krulla A tech II BS will basically be invincible. one word here, "Dreadnaught", the t1 equivelent should easily take out a t2 bs, or atleast have an even fight. Death to the Galante
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:43:00 - [13] Thing is you can't just think about the PvP aspects. Unless they start putting dreads into extravaganzas in L4's, a T2 BS in an L4 will fly through as easily as a HAC in an L3. If they make em harder, they may have to try, a little. Depends on how hard they are actually made, but there are level 5/6 agents on the horizon as well. \| Don't be a bad loser \|
Imran	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:48:00 - [14] I want a tech II dommy
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:51:00 - [15] Edited by: LUKEC on 26/05/2005 18:52:03 i want t2 mega without mwd penalty and dual dmg mod :)(big deimos basicly(this should be the guide for ccp, what to do with gallente))
DarkMatters	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:57:00 - [16] Originally by: Jim Steele Originally by: Krulla A tech II BS will basically be invincible. one word here, "Dreadnaught", the t1 equivelent should easily take out a t2 bs, or atleast have an even fight. the devs have stated the plan is for t2 BS to be better then dreads in a dev blog awhile back. same way your assault frig will walk all over a destroyer i quess....
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.26 18:59:00 - [17] Fleets of t2 bs? I doubt there is anywhere near that many people with BS V. From my observation, most players tend not to specialize in one race and have more then one battleship trained up...meaning not a lot of people have battleship V. They are also going to cost an ungodly amount. I'm guessing the the first couple dozen will sell for 800-1bil with the price settling down at around 500m. So lets say you get one for 600m, insure it for 100m, thats 500m loss without any modules. With modules you're probably looking at a total loss of 600m. Thats a huge loss from my perspective and any other pvper as far as i'm concerned. Nobody is going to use these ships if they don't compare to battleships as heavy assaults compare to regular cruisers. Try and looking at the whole picture... ________________________________________________________
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:03:00 - [18] Id say there are too many BS in the game as it is tbh. They are too cheap, too easy to build and too easy to train for. So yeah id pass on T2 bs, i mean Dreads are gonna be evil enough as is, and they need to be very rare, Or as Slothe says big corps and groupings like BoB will just romp over everyone in uber fleets. Hopefully Dreads, Carriers and Titans will be an alliance asset.. not something one player/corp can easily afford. Rules MLM out, but thats life. One easier answer still lies in a potential Book mark nerf, gate nerf and a speed nerf on bs. Hopefully resulting in a position where we go back to Cruisers as the Mainstay of fleets with BS being a defensive ship..or an invasion spearhead. Then again im a miner so maybe dont listen to me. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:03:00 - [19] they will use them... but keep declining missions in 0.4 :)
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:03:00 - [20] I have to agree, T2 Battle ships should be something more the an oversized heavy assault. But in a way, we are not likely to see to many of them, if the price tend follws.. i.e current price of a deimos is 110 mill.. the same as a T1 BS.. so we can more then likely see T2 BS's towards the billion mark, and as for those saying a dread will be able to take one. Again, i doubt we are going to see to many of them. As CCP has stated many times they don't want to see these like we see BS's at the moment.. So we can expect if anything, a massive price mark on those, and compaired to the two, the dread will be the better deal, as the insurance payout for a T2 BS, is going to be low so losing a T2 BS is going to really hurt. Where the insurance payout for a dread will be close to the original cost, thanks to being a T1 ship. (but thats going way off topic.)
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:09:00 - [21] Originally by: Cadman Weyland Id say there are too many BS in the game as it is tbh. They are too cheap, too easy to build and too easy to train for. Thats because cruisers suck. CCP needs to fix cruisers badly. Not a quick fix, they need to spend time on the problem. It's stupid that battleships are more common then cruisers. ________________________________________________________
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:14:00 - [22] Perspective: HACs are priced at a little over 10x what their cruiser equivalents are. Let's assume BS's are too. Corp 1 spends 200m each for five tech1 battleships. Corp 2 spends 1bil(though likely, these will be far more expensive from the player economy) on one T2 battleship. In my mind, regardless of what cool mods the T2 ship can fit, it's still outclassed by the five BS's going up against it. If you get the BPO, be very careful :) A suicide Kestrel might be worth random indy loot, but a suicide Raven or three is definitely a fair sacrifice.
X'Alor	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:36:00 - [23] Edited by: X''Alor on 26/05/2005 19:40:46 Originally by: Twin blade I do think that if they are ever put in game level 4 need to be made fleet only and made a lot lot lot harder so no 1 Tec 2 BS can just go in and wipe the floor with it. You do know that the lvl 5 agents are ingame but no one has access to them yet? All the lvl 5 agents have been ingame since release if you chose to look for them. If you did that to lvl 4's then what do you suggest we use those already installed lvl 5 agents for? People tend to forget that lvl 5 are already here ingame but with closed doors. they will EVEntually be opened up weather you like what lvl 4's did to the game or not. lvl 3 should have some light BS spawns in them. lvl 4 should be borderline solo'able by a player with 25 mill skill points or more. Challenging for him but doable. That way the time saved from grouping is the bonus for grouping on lvl 4's. Thus a group can do it in less than half the time as a solo player thus they will make out better by grouping. Lvl 5's should be the strictly only fleet group dreadnaught titan engagements. People are so ditraught about lvl 4's that they can't take time to read that lvl 5's will be here one day and that lvl 5 agents are currently distributed throughout space. I know I made my lvl 5 plans back in june of 2003. The missle nerf will change the lvl 4 mission difficulty enough. As it is if you try solo'in any lvl 4 in anything but a raven it is very very chanlenging without millions of skillpoints in gunnery skills. As for the tech 2 BS. I'm all for it. Bring it on, give us a real reason to train BS 5 if you hadn't done so.
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2005.05.26 19:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Cadman Weyland Id say there are too many BS in the game as it is tbh. They are too cheap, too easy to build and too easy to train for. Thats because cruisers suck. CCP needs to fix cruisers badly. Not a quick fix, they need to spend time on the problem. It's stupid that battleships are more common then cruisers. I totally agree with u. Cruisers need a hit points increase, even a doubling. They need a look at speed, cap, cpu, range of locking. They also need a real look at why its better in some cases to fit Frig guns to a Cruiser over Cruiser guns, a silly situation. Id say move Cruisers and also Battle cruisers up a notch. Look at Destroyers being upgraded to fill the gap as they never really get used either. Id like to see more types of Destroyers and tweaked Battlecruisers b4 T2 BS. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Selim	Posted - 2005.05.26 20:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Cadman Weyland Id say there are too many BS in the game as it is tbh. They are too cheap, too easy to build and too easy to train for. Thats because cruisers suck. CCP needs to fix cruisers badly. Not a quick fix, they need to spend time on the problem. It's stupid that battleships are more common then cruisers. No, bs are used so much because they are so cheap and harmless to lose. If battleships and carriers cost a dime a dozen in real life, navies wouldnt use anything except them. But they do so they use smaller ships that are cheaper and quicker, not just to protect the big ships but because they do the job almost as good for much less investment and risk. Instas are a big problem too, bs move almost as fast as frigs.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.26 20:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Selim No, bs are used so much because they are so cheap and harmless to lose. If battleships and carriers cost a dime a dozen in real life, navies wouldnt use anything except them. But they do so they use smaller ships that are cheaper and quicker, not just to protect the big ships but because they do the job almost as good for much less investment and risk. Instas are a big problem too, bs move almost as fast as frigs. Good points. Insurance needs to die Instas as well possibly ________________________________________________________
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.05.26 20:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Oveur Leadership is getting overhauled, this is getting more and more important in the world of EVE and we will add the first steps of a general overhaul to gangs and groups in the next content patch. Leadership features new skills, modules and opens up for specialized command ships. Could these be T2 battleships? Not stunningly better than, say, a navy ship, but with the coolness of being able to supercharge a gang or fleet.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.26 20:56:00 - [28] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Oveur Leadership is getting overhauled, this is getting more and more important in the world of EVE and we will add the first steps of a general overhaul to gangs and groups in the next content patch. Leadership features new skills, modules and opens up for specialized command ships. Could these be T2 battleships? Not stunningly better than, say, a navy ship, but with the coolness of being able to supercharge a gang or fleet. Wow, more reasons to blob. Thats just great... It's a good thing they fixed lag issues with large fleets. ________________________________________________________
Geldorf Drakar	Posted - 2005.05.26 21:26:00 - [29] How silly you all are. Your making it sound like EVERYONE and their mother(s), will be able and will be flying T2 BS. Just an estimate here but prolly only 20% of EVE popolation will have the ISK and skills necisary to fly a T2 BS. In all probability youll be lucky if you see one or two in the same spot. Lets use a big 12000 players as our test bed number, only 2400 will be able to fly a T2 BS, not to say that prolly out of those 2400 some wont be flying T2 BS. It will prolly take 20-25mill minimum SP to fly one properly. Not to mention the fact that the BPO holders will have absolute control over price. Theyll cost more than 2billion seeing the current trend of T1 Faction BS . Dont get your nickers in a twist, you wont see many T2 BS. "Long live the Emperor" Opinions expressed above are mine and mine only
Remedial	Posted - 2005.05.26 21:37:00 - [30] What's the easiest way to beat an assault with a cruiser? Medium Nos. What's the easiest way to beat a HAC with a BS? Heavy Nos What's the easiest way to beat a T2 BS with a Dread? Ultra Nos All that t2 BS tanking means jack squat when you're losing 30 cap per second from 40km away.

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