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Hiram	Posted - 2005.05.28 23:56:00 - [1] When is CCP going to fix the bloody insurance system for T2 frigates? as over priced as some come be its a bit stupid that you buy a 11mil frigate but can insure it for more than the worth of the guns fitted on it? Please CCP can you do something about this?
Zoidberg ENB	Posted - 2005.05.29 00:02:00 - [2] Isn't it done on purpose so TII ships remain valuable and rarer than TI ships? Why walk when you can skip?
F'nog	Posted - 2005.05.29 00:06:00 - [3] There's nothing to fix. As has been explained countless times already, insurance is based on the base mineral/component value of the ship. The price of T2 ships reflects the market value, not the base value. People are willing to charge and pay higher prices, and thus insurance does not equal the amount paid. If you're unwilling to pay that much, or lose that much, simply don't buy T2 ships.
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.05.29 05:18:00 - [4] Even some tech 1 battleships you cant get the full insurance to cover ie say the dominix i pay on average 75m but the base value with minerals is 65m - the only way to raise the insurance payout is to raise mineral prices.
MutationZ	Posted - 2005.05.29 05:25:00 - [5] Originally by: ollobrains Even some tech 1 battleships you cant get the full insurance to cover ie say the dominix i pay on average 75m but the base value with minerals is 65m - the only way to raise the insurance payout is to raise mineral prices. Which will raise the ship prices which will still mean you dont get full payout?
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.05.29 05:34:00 - [6] Yeah it loses some money - but you cant have it driving inflation up to much either - its anothre ISK sink - but a few level 2 and 3 agent missions for an hour or so is enough to cover insurance payouts. NPC hunting in 0.0 will cover it. Heck even gives me a reason to mine as well to rebuild my BS. I know its annoying for those that want quick action but it keeps more aspects of the game ticking over. And it helps stablisie prices as well.
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2005.05.29 09:11:00 - [7] I've thought about this before...and here's what I came up with... Maybe a PLAYER corporation could amass enough capital to go into the insurance business. They could insure things that standard insurance won't insure, such as modules or Tech II ships. Might make a lot of money that way... ___________________________________________ ^^^*---All things serve the Beam---*^^^
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.05.29 09:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 29/05/2005 09:50:42 Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari I've thought about this before...and here's what I came up with... Maybe a PLAYER corporation could amass enough capital to go into the insurance business. They could insure things that standard insurance won't insure, such as modules or Tech II ships. Might make a lot of money that way... Since in eve, nearly all ships are lost sooner or later, there is very little room for profit in that unless you use a short insurance cycle. If you do that, people get more careless with their ships since their insurance covers it all anyway, so a greater percentage of shiplosses occurs. You'd end up with premiums that are near the payout value of the insurance. The only benefit to the insurer would be having the premium isk at their disposal to trade with. Wether that is worth the administrative nightmare and high risk of being scammed, I sincerely doubt. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.05.29 09:52:00 - [9] Oh btw, tech2 ship insurance is fine. Nice isk sink, nice isk equaliser. 2 tech1 ships > 1 tech2 ship still, soo. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Sarkos	Posted - 2005.05.29 12:18:00 - [10] With mineral prices as they are, few ships lost are fully paid for now. Even a T1 Rupture, which costs 2 mill to insure and pays out 6 mill, costs 8.5 mill to buy anew. Insurance helps the loss, not to replace it. Sarkos Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
Victor Sane	Posted - 2005.05.29 12:35:00 - [11] Edited by: Victor Sane on 29/05/2005 12:40:05 Edited by: Victor Sane on 29/05/2005 12:38:08 try a crow for an example one day its on 12-15mill isk,,, the other day its like 26mill isk and the insurrance doesnt cover that much,,, its insane prices.. and reason for those prices are cause its not easy to get the damn things,,,, many are making missions and dont build so the can set the prices as they like and its not cool -----------------------------------------------
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.05.29 15:26:00 - [12] If you need full insurance cover for your tech 2's, you're not wealthy enough to be using them anyhow.
AvanCade	Posted - 2005.05.29 16:38:00 - [13] Lets say the insurance is the only flaw on T2 ships. Every ship has a flaw, so why not the T2 ones ? :)
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.05.29 16:48:00 - [14] Yeah, I've never agreed to the bogus insurance system either. I just don't fly tech II... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.05.29 21:25:00 - [15] Only reason why ship prices are rising over the base price of insurance is becasue a) youre paying to much b) not enough mining going on.
Skogen Gump	Posted - 2005.05.29 21:29:00 - [16] The insurance is fine , if you made the ship - Maybe they should fix the overinflated prices instead ...
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:06:00 - [17] Originally by: F'nog There's nothing to fix. As has been explained countless times already, insurance is based on the base mineral/component value of the ship. The price of T2 ships reflects the market value, not the base value. People are willing to charge and pay higher prices, and thus insurance does not equal the amount paid. If you're unwilling to pay that much, or lose that much, simply don't buy T2 ships. Typical. Ignorant and uninformed, bantying out only half of the answer without making the situation clear at all. Insurance is based on the NPC market, NOT ON THE REAL MARKET. IF an NPC were to be selling the required T2 components you would see the prices that the NPCs offer, but since T2 comps are either earned (via mission bonuses, ect) or built (using the various reactions, et al, which Player Stations were intended to create but don't), they are marketed by Players... ... and as we all well know, players don't 'sell' at anything approaching realistic prices those things which are not either A) stupidly abundant (miner 2s), or B) sold by NPCs. Without an NPC market there is nothing to cap the cost on components. Thus, T2 components are idiotically expensive, and due to that factor they drive up the prices of T2 ships (which are likewise idiotically priced having no NPC market balances). Player developed market costs are not factored in any way into the insurance cost or payout. Insurance is based 100% entirely on a nebulous 'fixed' rate attached to the items put into its creation, which is entirely 'NPC' and unadjusted for 'inflation' at all. That is why the insurance payouts on T2 ships is so useless, not because they're supposed to be 'more rare'. If they were truly supposed to be 'super rare' you wouldn't see every gankerpirate corp out there fielding fleets of them.
Blacklight	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:16:00 - [18] Insurance on T2 ships is fine, it's a good isk sink. Eve Blacklight Style
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Spy4Hire Originally by: F'nog There's nothing to fix. As has been explained countless times already, insurance is based on the base mineral/component value of the ship. The price of T2 ships reflects the market value, not the base value. People are willing to charge and pay higher prices, and thus insurance does not equal the amount paid. If you're unwilling to pay that much, or lose that much, simply don't buy T2 ships. Typical. Ignorant and uninformed, bantying out only half of the answer without making the situation clear at all. Insurance is based on the NPC market, NOT ON THE REAL MARKET. IF an NPC were to be selling the required T2 components <snip> This is untrue. T2 insurance is simply low. There dosn't NEED to be a "reason" behind it - it works, and well. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Kade Shaderow	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:36:00 - [20] Edited by: Kade Shaderow on 29/05/2005 22:36:59 ALL insurance payouts reflect the base market price of the item. Blame the idiots who price-gouge on TechII ships. Or moreover, blame CCP for giving BPO's away to people with the kind of economic mentality of a five year old.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.05.29 23:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Maya Rkell This is untrue. T2 insurance is simply low. There dosn't NEED to be a "reason" behind it - it works, and well. The insurance payout for T2 ships is correct.. i.e The correct base market price for a deimos is 17.062.588,00 ISK ... That taking into all the base market values of everything needed to build one. But due to the basic human nature of greed you end up paying an average of 110 mill. So if anything, the people that are to blame for the poor insurance payout are not CCP, but instead the T2 sellers, but not just the ship sellers as it starts further back in that chain. Now if NPC's was start start selling T2 comps.. then you would see a drastic drop in the price of T2 ships and items, plus the insurance payouts would reflect the price you are paying for the ship.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.05.30 01:37:00 - [22] CCP dropped the ball on this big time, and they are too ignorant to do anything about it. Simply don't buy T2... And if I see one more person who comes on here and says it works perfectly, you can kiss my ass... T2 insurance is a prime example of another CCP FUBAR... But now they view it as a good ISk sink, so they leave it broken Stupid... Whatever... For those like me who only have a few mill in our bank accounts at any given time, you'll just have to stick with T1... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Zezman	Posted - 2005.05.30 01:58:00 - [23] On the contrary, CCP is very smart in not allowing you to insure the ship at the cost of purchase. To do so would open up a potential massive ISK exploit. Lets take a fictional scenario for example: 1. Player A makes a ship for cost of 10 million isk 2. He sells it to Player B for 100 million isk 3. Player B insures the ship for 100 million isk at an insurance cost of 10 million isk 4. Player B blows up his ship in combat with a corp mate 5. Player B gets a payout from his insurance company for 100 million 6. Player A gives the 100 million Player B paid him back to Player B, because they were in the scam together Therefore, at a cost of 10 million isk to produce, and 10 million isk to insure, Players A and B made 80 million isk risk free in net profits. If they split it both ways, they made 40 million each. This only increases with higher and higher player set prices. Thats why CCP doesn't insure at sale costs, because of the potential insurance exploits. I've already thought this whole scenario through before. (»)(») À\Oo/ À=\/= This is Rat. It is a vermin. It has eaten all of Bunny's lettuce.
Facilty Overdue	Posted - 2005.05.30 02:17:00 - [24] As a Tech2 Ship constructor I may say that the reason for the big prices is that the elements required to build the entire Tech2 Item Tree for a ship, cannot be found on the market. Only their reactions are there, but not the components also (i.e. Caesium, Platinum, etc) or are Very Very hard to find (which equals what I said above) Because if you miss only one compoennt in the tree you just need to buy the item from the market.
F'nog	Posted - 2005.05.30 02:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Spy4Hire Originally by: F'nog There's nothing to fix. As has been explained countless times already, insurance is based on the base mineral/component value of the ship. The price of T2 ships reflects the market value, not the base value. People are willing to charge and pay higher prices, and thus insurance does not equal the amount paid. If you're unwilling to pay that much, or lose that much, simply don't buy T2 ships. Typical. Ignorant and uninformed, bantying out only half of the answer without making the situation clear at all. Insurance is based on the NPC market, NOT ON THE REAL MARKET. IF an NPC were to be selling the required T2 components you would see the prices that the NPCs offer, but since T2 comps are either earned (via mission bonuses, ect) or built (using the various reactions, et al, which Player Stations were intended to create but don't), they are marketed by Players... ... and as we all well know, players don't 'sell' at anything approaching realistic prices those things which are not either A) stupidly abundant (miner 2s), or B) sold by NPCs. Without an NPC market there is nothing to cap the cost on components. Thus, T2 components are idiotically expensive, and due to that factor they drive up the prices of T2 ships (which are likewise idiotically priced having no NPC market balances). Player developed market costs are not factored in any way into the insurance cost or payout. Insurance is based 100% entirely on a nebulous 'fixed' rate attached to the items put into its creation, which is entirely 'NPC' and unadjusted for 'inflation' at all. That is why the insurance payouts on T2 ships is so useless, not because they're supposed to be 'more rare'. If they were truly supposed to be 'super rare' you wouldn't see every gankerpirate corp out there fielding fleets of them. Umm, that's what I said. Thanks for flaming me though.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.05.30 03:16:00 - [26] Originally by: Bhaal CCP dropped the ball on this big time, and they are too ignorant to do anything about it. Simply don't buy T2... And if I see one more person who comes on here and says it works perfectly, you can kiss my ass... T2 insurance is a prime example of another CCP FUBAR... But now they view it as a good ISk sink, so they leave it broken Stupid... Whatever... For those like me who only have a few mill in our bank accounts at any given time, you'll just have to stick with T1... No, your too ignorant to understand that the insurance is fine, and that the problem lays with in the prices of the raw materials to build T2 comps, The T2 comps, and a number of T2 ship builders (not all of them) bumping the prices up. So rather then asking people to kiss your ass, maybe things would become clearer if you took your head of it. I guess, this in a way is carebear revenge, pirates kill the carebears and instead of arming themselves they just keep prices high and have a good giggle about its at the PvP'ers wallet.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.05.30 03:22:00 - [27] Insurance is fine. Currently flying tech 2 ships and equipment you a genuine risk of loss in combat in exhange for a ship much much more powerful than its tech 1 counterpart. Risk Vs Reward You risk alot of isk invested in a tech 2 ship The reward is you have a much more powerful ship. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Void	Posted - 2005.05.30 03:30:00 - [28] Ok, Heres what I think. All ships should be sold by NPC corporations first for the right price. Sure give out blue prints for private building, but to get away from price gouging by greedy players the prices should be set by the NPC market. Problem solved
F'nog	Posted - 2005.05.30 05:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Void Ok, Heres what I think. All ships should be sold by NPC corporations first for the right price. Sure give out blue prints for private building, but to get away from price gouging by greedy players the prices should be set by the NPC market. Problem solved What part of "player-run market" don't you understand? NPCs used to sell all the goods available, and they were priced at twice the mineral value. So if you want that back, be prepared to pay over 200mil for a BS.
Victor Sane	Posted - 2005.05.30 08:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Blacklight Insurance on T2 ships is fine, it's a good isk sink. u are so wrong in many ends,,, and ure pretty blind -----------------------------------------------

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