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Minerva Zen
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
5
   |
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:The concequences of boosting the t1 cruisers & leaving the t2 untouched was a bit shortsighted. I would have prefered if they gave the t2 versions more shields or armor & more power. Otherwise the price differene is too great.
If CCP buffed said T2, wouldn't the price just go even higher? I'm thinking one of us is misunderstanding cause and effect here. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2973
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:The concequences of boosting the t1 cruisers & leaving the t2 untouched was a bit shortsighted. I would have prefered if they gave the t2 versions more shields or armor & more power. Otherwise the price differene is too great.
T1 vessels first, faction and T2/T3 vessels later.
There were several ways to approach this, but in the end this makes the most sense. In fact, doing things in this order encourages people to try out the T1 versions of these ships, which is a good thing.
I rather like the idea of T1 logistics having less rep power and survivability, but longer range to somewhat compensate and make them usable. T2 should concentrate on more repping power (to a degree) and resists, better against jamming... however they have to get in closer to the fight to be effective (thus promoting teamwork).
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Shadowschild
Black Lance
Fidelas Constans
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Minerva Zen wrote:Shadowschild wrote:The concequences of boosting the t1 cruisers & leaving the t2 untouched was a bit shortsighted. I would have prefered if they gave the t2 versions more shields or armor & more power. Otherwise the price differene is too great. If CCP buffed said T2, wouldn't the price just go even higher? I'm thinking one of us is misunderstanding cause and effect here.
I think your the one who is misunderstanding. By narrowing the gap they devalue the t2 equivalents.
Right now I'd have to shell out an extra 165m for a slightly better ship. I don't find it worth the expense & the alliances with SRP's probably aren't too eager to refund scimitars when their t1 varients do just as well & die just as easily.
Whereas, I could be paying an extra 200 or even more, for a much better ship. Thus justifying the time I spent training, learning to use it & of course buying & fitting the thing. Overall it would have more value to me. |
Maire Gheren
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:Right now I'd have to shell out an extra 165m for a slightly better ship.
How this is any different from the people who shell out an extra few million to fit their ship with a slightly better module, and tell people that you can't PVP without the best gear and skills at V, i'm not totally clear on. I don't see people abandoning the t2 ships as long as they have even a minute edge over the t1's. |
Shadowschild
Black Lance
Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Maire Gheren wrote:Shadowschild wrote:Right now I'd have to shell out an extra 165m for a slightly better ship. How this is any different from the people who shell out an extra few million to fit their ship with a slightly better module, and tell people that you can't PVP without the best gear and skills at V, i'm not totally clear on. I don't see people abandoning the t2 ships as long as they have even a minute edge over the t1's.
Those modules are optional. If you have the cash & don't mind the loss, then fine. But when we are discussing ships hulls (& their bonuses) there is nothing optional about them. EVeryone buys the same ship. Frankly minute edges don't mean **** in a fleet fight. You think your 5% more dps for the dread gurista mod you put on makes any real difference? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2975
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:Minerva Zen wrote:Shadowschild wrote:The concequences of boosting the t1 cruisers & leaving the t2 untouched was a bit shortsighted. I would have prefered if they gave the t2 versions more shields or armor & more power. Otherwise the price differene is too great. If CCP buffed said T2, wouldn't the price just go even higher? I'm thinking one of us is misunderstanding cause and effect here. I think your the one who is misunderstanding. By narrowing the gap they devalue the t2 equivalents. Right now I'd have to shell out an extra 165m for a slightly better ship. Whereas, if we follow the logic of other t1/t2 ships, I should be getting a much better ship. If they keep this design & buff the t2 varient i'd be happy to pay more because it's worth more. Example: Scythe / Scimitar. I don't find it worth the expense & the alliances with SRP's probably aren't too eager to refund scimitars when their t1 varients do just as well in a spider tanked setup. At least with the HACs (like the munin) they keep the existing cruiser bonuses & tack on optimal range & tracking bonuses. It's just overall a much better advancement on the orginal design. Everyone who trained for logistics did so because there wasn't a t1 version available. I invite you to compare a fully trained scythe vs scimitar. The scythe has more range, does about 300 hp less per cycle (1300 vs 1600) has an extra low slot and similar power grid, shield, armor etc. It's like they were thinking backwards.
T2 variants are currently more survivable.
Keep in mind that cost is not a balancing factor in EvE, you tend to pay significantly more for small advantages... because those small advantages add up.
That being said, T2 varients will be balanced as well but only after T1 is complete. There are significant advantages to doing it this way, including the inherent incentive to give the T1 ships a whirl.
Everything at it's proper pace, they can't do them all at once. Well, they could, but everyone would be highly irritated at having to wait a year or so before seeing ANY of the balancing work... not to mention the ability to get feed back from people using the base models on the live server BEFORE attempting the balancing work on the more specialized variants.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Maire Gheren
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:Maire Gheren wrote:Shadowschild wrote:Right now I'd have to shell out an extra 165m for a slightly better ship. How this is any different from the people who shell out an extra few million to fit their ship with a slightly better module, and tell people that you can't PVP without the best gear and skills at V, i'm not totally clear on. I don't see people abandoning the t2 ships as long as they have even a minute edge over the t1's. Those modules are optional. If you have the cash & don't mind the loss, then fine. But when we are discussing ships hulls (& their bonuses) there is nothing optional about them. EVeryone buys the same ship.
And everyone buys the same modules, too. I'm not seeing anything that explains how the rules of marketing and behavior that govern what kind of ammunition or gun someone buys to put on their hull are somehow completely suspended when they go to buy the hull itself. |
Minerva Zen
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
Maire Gheren wrote:Shadowschild wrote:Right now I'd have to shell out an extra 165m for a slightly better ship. How this is any different from the people who shell out an extra few million to fit their ship with a slightly better module, and tell people that you can't PVP without the best gear and skills at V, i'm not totally clear on. I don't see people abandoning the t2 ships as long as they have even a minute edge over the t1's.
This.
The use of the market to gauge ship effectiveness is what seems bogus to me. If it isn't bogus, then you may be seeing a market opportunity. Buy a bunch of whichever ship looks underpriced to you and resell when everyone catches on. If that looks like bad advice to you, then you're starting to get my point. |
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