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Less Filler, more MEAT

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Sleazy Cabbie	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:12:00 - [1] I really think that adv learning is the worst thing they ever put into the game, I'm sure they put it in with the intention of having advanced players with 20 mil SP train them, but new players just coming into the game are told that you "should" train adv learning at least to 4, so they spend 2 months and cant even play their character, then they play the game, get ganked, go bankrupt, someone burns down their candyland hut, and they go crying back to WoW and tell everybody how much Eve sucks. It just seems like instead of adding meat to the game, they just keep adding filler. Instead of new features, new content, cool stuff, they just nerf what you had before, and make you train 5 skills to get back where you were. First they nerfed trade, now it takes 2 months of training to do the same thing you did before the nerf. Now they're nerfing missiles, and it's gonna take 2 months of training missile skills to get the same power you had before. The game needs more stuff, more CONTENT, more MEAT, fun stuff to do, more professions, not take the old professions, nerf them, then make everybody train, that's not the way to keep people playing. We're not stupid, we'd rather have no new skills than new skills that let us do what we used to do with no skills. What the game needs is NEW skills that let you do NEW things. Hacking. An Eve internet. Corporate servers. Ship damage. Mechanic skills to fix ships, not just pay NPC 5000 isk to repair you armor. Critical hit blows out your tech 2 mod, take it to repair guy, to save you from having to buy new 50 mil mod. Hackers that hack corporate site, tell you where their HQ is. Tell you their offices. Tell you their member list. Tell you where their members are. Tractor beam skill. Lets you pull containers to you. Assassination skill. Let you bribe concord to kill specific person in empire. Finish smuggling, so we can smuggle drugs. NEW stuff, not nerf old stuff and make new skills to fix. You are just driving ppl away from your game with BULLSCHIT skills like adv learning and trade.
Severe McCald	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:19:00 - [2] I couldn't agree more. However, it has all been said before mate. Severe And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
MutationZ	Posted - 2005.05.31 16:20:00 - [3] There is some worthwhile stuff in this post. It would be a shame to see it locked because you used the word "rant" I, too am tired of every new innvoation having a skill tree attached to it. I know it gives the older players something to train but think of the new people. "Specialise" they tell you. Sure, I'll make a lot of money as an ECM specialist etc etc
Tananda Vaakaja	Posted - 2005.05.31 18:27:00 - [4] Agreed... "Away with Ye O Nerf Bat of ToMB!" Seriously...nerfing the shiiiite out of everything is perhaps not the bestest thing to do. Adding new skills / professions / etc provide the meat to the Eve Sausage casing. THAT being said.. lets not forget it's not easy for the limited resources of CCP to throw this stuff in willy nilly.... I don't envy the devs in trying to pacify all the screaming out here but it's not just a job... it's an ADVENTURE!!
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.05.31 18:44:00 - [5] Someone smack the turntable, that needle's a-skippin' again. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
prsr	Posted - 2005.05.31 18:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Sleazy Cabbie I really think that adv learning is the worst thing they ever put into the game, I'm sure they put it in with the intention of having advanced players with 20 mil SP train them, but new players just coming into the game are told that you "should" train adv learning at least to 4, so they spend 2 months and cant even play their character, then they play the game, get ganked, go bankrupt, someone burns down their candyland hut, and they go crying back to WoW and tell everybody how much Eve sucks. Advanced skills are there to enable new characters to keep up with the veterans. You might not want to hear it but it's not uncommon for veterans with alts to exclaim:"OMG my alt is gaining on my main!!!11!one" because they did pursue advanced learning skills. Do you want new players to forever worship the veterans or do you want to be able to catch up in at least a few of their area's of expertise? You need to prioritize your skill training and learning how to do that is an integral part of this game. Exclaiming that the advanced learning skills are filler or wasted is something that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The rest of your post looks like whinage to me tbh, there's lots of stuff coming in the content area and devs are working and open to suggestions on improving the game. I concur CCP has almost abandoned some parts of the game like the hacking skills, proper pirating support and the whole alliance and corp relation thing concerning wars and such still doesn't feel quite right. But try to make it more constructive maybe? Post in the idea's forum and such and see if you can form and post a coherent idea.
SinBin	Posted - 2005.05.31 18:57:00 - [7] Yea bad advice by older players is common, i say get ya self on ya feet then do training skills. Poster stick this in ideas & suggestion forum without the word rant. _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks Maybe end the election round will do it ? & could save hundred of Users & Mods pain.
Tenashi	Posted - 2005.05.31 18:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Tenashi on 31/05/2005 18:59:15 n00bs should train to learning lvl4 and basic learning lvl4, not advance lvl4, wonder who the n00b is right now Everlasting Vendetta - Search
Icarus Starkiller	Posted - 2005.05.31 19:15:00 - [9] Aye, I agree a lot with these sentiments. The missile supernerf is the dumbest thing I've ever seen a game do, though the addition of skills would have been something to balance missiles with guns (as far as training to use effecitvely). As it stands Eve is not not newbie frendily in any way at all, and it is only getting worse in rapid order. Before too long the only way to keep newb players is to give them things that old school players spent months training up. There are thousands of bugs that need examination as well as the promised 'meat' that has yet to materialize. The introduction of yet another set of skills will hardly fix anything.
Omniwar	Posted - 2005.05.31 19:26:00 - [10] Find 5000 carebears / n00bs that agree with u and mail CCP about it....then they might listen.... *Spawn of the Devil*
Wendat Huron	Posted - 2005.05.31 19:31:00 - [11] You pay NPC for ship repairs?
Nifel	Posted - 2005.05.31 20:06:00 - [12] Cheese? "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2005.05.31 20:09:00 - [13] yes yes yes! There needs to be a reason to log in for more than 5 minutes to change skill! more content plz! this here's mah sig': My Quote: "You can call me a carebear all you want, but your still an arrogant slimeball"
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:18:00 - [14] Newbies shouldn't train advanced learning skills first thing. Its more of a stopgap between when battleship training is done and when they have enough money and skill to effectively use one. Between 2 and 5 months IMO is where they should be trained. -- The best description of alliances, ever:
Dewar Scrabulous	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Sleazy Cabbie First they nerfed trade, now it takes 2 months of training to do the same thing you did before the nerf. Untrue! Most of the trade skills you don't need in order to be back where you were before. Only number of orders and taxes changed, and most people didn't use a large enough number of orders to need any but the most basic trade skills. The rest is for remote trading which is some pretty hefty meat (even though it's still a bit buggy) ---
Blind Man	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:42:00 - [16] Who knew someone could sum up in 1 post exactly the same things that I think need to be done ;) (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Sonorra Baki	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:49:00 - [17] I like the idea of teh tractor beam, maybe it could even work on the forums, and like sorta drag ppl away from here... so they couldnt like... post again..
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2005.05.31 21:59:00 - [18] Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 31/05/2005 21:59:59 How are complete n00bs supposed to get the money to BUY all five advanced learning skills? Anyway, EVE is most definitely not n00b friendly...best example is that NOTHING in the tutorial explains how the training system works, or even that it exists. You don't even start out with anything training, it just SITS THERE until somebody tells you what it is. THEN you say oh ** look at all that that I wasted. I think that it's really stupid not to even TELL new players about one of the most important game mechanics in all of EVE. "If meat is murder, then I'm Jeffrey Dahmer." -- Me ___________________________________________ ^^^---All things serve the Beam---**^^^
Galk	Posted - 2005.05.31 22:10:00 - [19] Ummm you forgot guns dude. How could you forget the guns 425 were cool, then uncool, then cool again after 3 months of training for t2 Obviously training for something more worthwhile... ohh i dunno, something Ubber like Adavance learning lv5 would have been cool ------------------------ ---- Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.05.31 22:31:00 - [20] read only 1st few lines, anyway, no1 tells you that you must train them, I only begane tranining my normal to 5...got learning done soon:P, have played without probes with no adv learning B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
FaTA1	Posted - 2005.06.01 03:12:00 - [21] Bravo! clap clap clap bravo!
Alberto	Posted - 2005.06.01 04:43:00 - [22] Edited by: Alberto on 01/06/2005 05:05:26 We are not just getting stuck with more skills fillers We are getting stuck with more (players vs. environment) MISSIONS, NEW RATS, and MORE NPC CRAP fillers Instead of adding to the dynamics (CONTENT that goes full circle to all players) of the game!!! They add pve/npc content that is destroying the eve worldÆs ôdynamic game playö Free loot = is robbing manufacturing, traders and investors of real game play! When is the last time you mass-produced med-ammo cuz you knew you where going to make a killing? LoL the devÆs are robbing there own game of little dynamics the do have!!! Free isk= itÆs inflating the market BUT worse there is no point to eve now no more fighting for the o mighty isk!!!!! Where is the excitement gone? Npc orders in the player market= I believe the players of eve are an intelligent player base this just insults us the paying costumer. Let the market go where it wants to go!!!! Everywhere in eve the some thing markets flat. No booms or busts cuz of npc orders the market can take care of its self thank you very much. Npc Concord= when I first started this game there was only sec hits if you did some thing bad in empire space concord would not come out and stale the action. There was more trust then. and just to have your ship out in space gave you a good edgy feeling. Now no trust and no good edgy feeling. The more the add the more it fill like some thing is missing And now free ships= well all I can say is ccp listened to the whiny babies and catered to them because the wanted more money! The outcome a baby game!!! And they did a good job at this cuz I hear the Nintendo is eyeing eve it need a space game to put next to Mario Land in its stores!!!!! Eve will never be truly balanced with npcÆs in the way!!! ItÆs like ever time they try to balance the game for a certain play style the end up screwing some other play style because npcÆs are in the way!!! ItÆs like robbing Peter to pay Paul and then reverse!!!
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2005.06.01 04:51:00 - [23] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 01/06/2005 04:52:18 Originally by: Alberto words If its any consolation things are on the downcline for us. come now how the HECK are we supposted to have a purely player driven MMORPG? it sounds like communism to me (in that it sounds like a good idea but in practice it could never work). Without NPC's there would be no loot drops, no reason to shell out a gazillion isk for that mod that is only 1 CPU less than the regular. Without NPC's then a vast majority of the population would be forced to mine, and judgeing by the prices people are not really into mineing at all at the moment. and no they would not "go PvP" they would simply quit. without NPC's who would put pressure on people to get defensive measures in safe empire? Without NPC's no missions, no standings, no research, no life other than PvP or mineing. without NPC's... well you get the picture it would never work. this here's mah sig': My Quote: "You can call me a carebear all you want, but your still an arrogant slimeball"
Sadist	Posted - 2005.06.01 04:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Alberto Edited by: Alberto on 01/06/2005 04:45:42 We are not just getting stuck with more skills fillers We are getting stuck with more (players vs. environment) MISSIONS, NEW RATS, and MORE NPC CRAP fillers Instead of adding to the dynamics (CONTENT that goes full circle to all players) of the game!!! They add pve/npc content that is destroying the eve worldÆs ôdynamic game playö Free loot = is robbing manufacturing, traders and investors of real game play! When is the last time you mass-produced med-ammo cuz you knew you where going to make a killing? LoL the devÆs are robbing there own game of little dynamics the do have!!! Free isk= itÆs inflating the market BUT worse there is not point to eve now no more fighting for the o mighty isk!!!!! Where is the excitement gone? Npc orders in the player market= I believe the players of eve are an intelligent player base this just insults us the paying costumer. Let the market go where it wants to go!!!! Everywhere in eve the some thing markets flat. No booms or busts cuz of npc orders the market can take care of its self thank you very much. Npc Concord= when I first started this game there was only sec hits if you did some thing bad in empire space concord would not come out and stale the action. There was more trust then. and just to have your ship out in space gave you a good edgy feeling. Now no trust and no good edgy feeling. The more the add the more it fill like some thing is missing And now free ships= well all I can say is ccp listened to the whiny babies and catered to them because the wanted more money! The outcome a baby game!!! And they did a good job at this cuz I hear the Nintendo is eyeing eve it need a space game to put next to Mario Land in its stores!!!!! Eve will never be truly balanced with npcÆs in the way!!! ItÆs like ever time they try to balance the game for a certain play style the end up screwing some other play style because npcÆs are in the way!!! ItÆs like robbing Peter to pay Paul and then reverse!!! All I can say about this, is we need more CRAP filters on the Forums first... _______________________________________________
Septimius Severus	Posted - 2005.06.01 04:58:00 - [25] Quote: All I can say about this, is we need more CRAP filters on the Forums first... DonÆt mind me itÆs just a rant
valkir	Posted - 2005.06.01 11:09:00 - [26] Originally by: Sonorra Baki I like the idea of teh tractor beam, maybe it could even work on the forums, and like sorta drag ppl away from here... so they couldnt like... post again.. /amen the thaught of people like you being gone would make me extreamly happy Error 7.0b1 - The item could not be deleted because it was missing The world will end in five minutes Please log out. WARNING: Keyboard Not Attached. Press F10 to Continue
Genevieve Blue	Posted - 2005.06.01 11:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 31/05/2005 21:59:59 How are complete n00bs supposed to get the money to BUY all five advanced learning skills? Anyway, EVE is most definitely not n00b friendly...best example is that NOTHING in the tutorial explains how the training system works, or even that it exists. You don't even start out with anything training, it just SITS THERE until somebody tells you what it is. THEN you say oh **** look at all that that I wasted. I think that it's really stupid not to even TELL new players about one of the most important game mechanics in all of EVE. Well, I don't know about anyone else, but my copy of EVE came with a manual, and well, radical it may be, but I read it. Ok, now you can download the game rather than buy it boxed, but quite frankly if someone downloads a game and doesn't bother to look at the documentation to start with, well, I'm not all that sympathetic to their plight.

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