So I was wrong.

Like I said, just reactivated after a two-years break, I *don't* know everything

Will have to do more tests ...

And buffer tanking shield is far worst than armor one

It isn't.

And buffer tanking shield is far worst than armor one, and shield do not have slave implants, etc... Shield and armor are DIFFERENT, get used to it.

So active armor tanking is supposed to be bad, just because active shield tanking is good? Thats some sh'tty gamedesign.

And if you haven't already noticed, there are already a HUGE difference between armor and shield active tanking. Shield reps have shorter cycles and reps at the beginning of the cycle, while armor reps lands at the end of the cycle which also is longer than the shield one. So there is already a difference. No need to make active armor tanking bad.

And buffer tanking shield is far worst than armor one, and shield do not have slave implants, etc... Shield and armor are DIFFERENT, get used to it.

It's balanced because armor has to be repaired and the plated ship takes an agility penalty. Then on top of that, if you fit armor rigs you're slower as well. Shield buffering gets more low slots for damage and tracking/range modules. Shields aren't just different, they're better. There's a reason the hyperion and brutix are far better when shield tanked instead of armor tanked.

Indeed, it's called passive shield tank.

Actually, you give up a smaller sig, since extenders light you up like a christmas tree. Most people don't care about that, though, because faster speed and more available lows is often worth it.

I'm not taking sides on this discussion, seeing as I'm using both, but I'd just like to point out that the above comment is not true, that is, the buffer and passive tanking are not the same.

With a passive tank you strengthen the native regeneration so that your shield regenerates in time (for example, with shield power relays and purger rigs; shield extenders are used, but not for the purpose of getting a bigger shield, rather than increasing the shield regeneration rate, which is tied to the size of the shield), whereas with buffer tank, you don't care about regeneration, you just want as much ehp as you can possibly get (shield extenders, resistance, etc.).

Passive shield tank is mostly a no-no for pvp, because it tends to considerably lower your dps and isn't all that awesome

And buffer tanking shield is far worst than armor one, and shield do not have slave implants, etc... Shield and armor are DIFFERENT, get used to it.

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II

J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Rupture (shield):
B: 20,971 EHP
R: 13,104, 59/sec. 133sec
Tengu boosts: 30,925 EHP
R: 16,973 EHP, 134/sec, 104sec

Rupture (armour):
B: 22,959
R: 20,566, 62/sec, 38 seconds
Legion boost B: 34,702
boost R: 30,857, 147/sec, 26 seconds

So I was wrong.

Like I said, just reactivated after a two-years break, I *don't* know everything

Will have to do more tests ...

Yeah active armor tanking is bad the modules being bad is just one of the reasons, there are many reasons that contribute to armor tanking fail, however armor does still have the edge over shield when it comes to buffer tank, as armor ships can almost always field a better EHP even before slaves which is probably the reason for armor dominance in caps/supercaps where EHP runs into the millions.

Larger sig makes next to no difference, because its main drawback is making you easier to track. You know what else makes you easier to track? Being slower.

It is quite possible to fit a Myrmidon to have a passive shield regeneration of over 400 points per second.

I'd like to see someone try to top this with any amount of cap-stable armor repair.

And to that tripple repper 'cap stable' fit. Cap Boosters are NOT cap stable. They simply buy you additional time till you run out of charges, then your Cap regen is in the sink, and you cap out in a couple of minutes. Cap stable = actual regen rate.

While we're ignoring and forgetting some things.. we should toss out how medium size SBs do not compete with equalivent sized ARs. When overheated.. this becomes even more pronounced. But we should ignore that.. along with the increased fitting costs of jumping a size up in SBs.

med reps are fine, lrn2resists.

Active shield tanking is not really any better than armor tanking. Normal shield boosting isn't good enough without implants and links, ASB works somewhat but it's very limited and you have to use more than one or an oversized booster on most ships.

What are you smoking, and why aren't you passing the pipe?

Can you prove Myrmidon has enough powergrid to fit guns, MWD, T2 LAR without using officer PDSs?

Medium sized armor repairers and shield boosters are frigate modules after all.

Why would I want to do that?

what the **** is going on here?

So yes, someone who really understands the game mechanics (like a dev or so) should draw conclusions about active tanking. Right now you either have links or you don't active tank.

So yes, someone who really understands the game mechanics (like a dev or so) should draw conclusions about active tanking. Right now you either have links or you don't active tank.

This thread was about active armor tank and you guys derailed it completely.

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II

This tells me that your fitting isn't cap stable. Relying on booster charges is fine and dandy for PvP, because PvP fights are short. For PvE mission running it doesn't cut it all because PvE battles drag on. For those you need cap-stable constant armor repair... which is hard enough when using projectile weapons... now try doing it a cap-sucking Amarr ship for extra laughs.

...

And does this repair 400 per cycle or 400 per second? Because the shield tank version is healing 400 per second and requires no capacitor at all.

considering the amount of armor cruisers have the medium reppers rep hardly anything, the myrm need THREE with a bonus to actually make a difference compared to a cyclones oversized boost bonused shield booster. (and ofc you cant oversize an armor rep)

will there be any love for armor reps?

100M ISK Prize to the first person to link a functionally identical thread to this which was started in 2009.

I would be genuinely shocked if 2009 was the first time this type of thread popped up.

just take look at some numbers:


Tengu with Large SB, pve config: ~400ehp/s
Tengu with pith-c-type Large SB, pure rep-setup for c3 sites: ~1200ehp/s at 60% cap
^ this tengu with vulture-links, LG crystals and standard blue-pill: ~ 3800ehp/s at 60% cap

100MN Tengu with Large SB: ~350ehp/s or ~1000ehp/s with links

this an obscene shield tanker with a broken subsystem, so let's go down to the cyclone...
Cyclone with Large SB, cap-injected: ~340ehp/s
^ same with links etc. like tengu: ~ 900ehp/s


Now over to armorships:

Legion with TWO c-type reppers: ~500 ehp/s
^ same with damnation, exile, etc: ~1400ehp/s

Myrmidon with THREE MAR2s: ~480 ehp/s
^ same with all the **** in this world: ~1400ehp/s

so congratulations, you need to fill a couple slots with active modules to reach the effectiveness of a single Shield Booster. Not only is the overall repair amount a bit slower, but also the reaction times are quite NOT similiar. 2-4 seconds for a shieldbooster against 6-10 seconds for a armor repairer.

I think the only point speaking in favor of the active armor tanker is the fact that he can easily fit a lot of tackle. Also the fact that my Fleet stabber has to overload both armor reps to tank only the guns of a cynabal is a bit pathetic.



So yes, someone who really understands the game mechanics (like a dev or so) should draw conclusions about active tanking. Right now you either have links or you don't active tank.