| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Pann
   |
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:29:00 -
[1]
One of the most commonly asked questions recently has been about corp taxes. Corporation taxes, in theory, would take a percentage of a corporation member's earnings and automatically add them to the corporation wallet. This was tested during beta and the desired results were never achieved, so the feature was tabled in order to shift the focus over to more prominent issues that needed immediate attention. Now that many things on that list have been tackled or are in the process of being resolved, we should be able to have more time to fine-tune the corp tax concept. We look forward to hearing your ideas about how you would like to see this work and your concerns about what you might consider to be possible pitfalls in the system.
Eve Community Manager
[email protected]
CCP |
Klydor
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:39:00 -
[2]
I for one would love to see the option for
1) blanket tax.. corp takes X percent of every ISK you make.
2) varied options instead of blanket. EG corp takes x percent of mining isk earn't. But only n percent of trading money earn't and no isk for bounties etc.
Basically each major way isk can be earn't should have the option of been taxable.
This way corps can fine tune taxes, or just go for a blanket tax.
Even better would be the option to tax some players more than others. For example some corp members provide a lot of goods/services so they are not taxed. Others provide very little so they are taxed at a higher rate.
Just a few quick random ideas for you :)
Nice to hear plans for the future, keep it up and I'm sure you cut out 50% of the worries of people on these forums :)
|
Gan Howorth
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:46:00 -
[3]
That's about it l think! Blanket tax with maybe different tax levels set for source activity.
Can't see how there could be any pitfalls.
|
Lola
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:48:00 -
[4]
Thanks for posting about this Pann. I think the only way it can work is if you give the CEOs the option to pick what is taxed. An "income tax" style system would work best to tax traders but would let others escape. A sales tax might work best for manufacturers but could kill a traders income. I think what corps and players both want is a fair way to let everyone do their part in helping the corp without letting people freeload. The way my local government does it is about a 30% income tax and an 8% sales tax with more taxes on anything they can think of like cigarettes, property and gasoline. Hopefully my in-game corp doesn't turn out to be that evil.
-----------------------------------------
Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Crepiscule
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:51:00 -
[5]
Just some ideas here:
If a CEO wants to raise the tax rate above 50% it would require a vote by the share holders.
The tax should be taken out of any credit to your account other than money tradded to you by other players. This would keep you from being double taxed.
Not being a trader, I'm not sure what the pitfalls would be with taxing on credits to your account when doing trade runs. Maybe someone could point them out here.
|
Lola
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:55:00 -
[6]
Are you guys talking blanket income tax or blanket sales tax? Traders need different tax than miners and pirate hunters. How do you tax a miner that buys things on mineral deals? How do you tax a pirate hunter who recycles most of his loot for minerals and keeps the good loot? How do you tax a trader who just bought 40 million in trade goods to sell it for 41 million? Certainly a blanket tax isn't fair at the same percent for each of those players.
-----------------------------------------
Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:58:00 -
[7]
THe biggest pitfall people encountered with corp taxes was that the profit margin on trading was overridden by their corp's tax rate. So if the corp had a 12% tax rate and they were only clearing 8% profit on trade, the corp erased their profit and caused them to lose isk.
I actually liked it that way as it kinda set a 'bottom rung' on trade. Basically, don't waste time on trade routes below this mark. It was up to the member to choose his corporation wisely to see that they saw a return from the isk that the corp tax took.
Me, I set corp tax at 5% (once I figured out the numbering scheme of CCP) and left it at that.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Morgaine
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:58:00 -
[8]
"This was tested during beta and the desired results were never achieved".
I guess this means that a complete makeover is being speculated on.
Perhaps a summary of what the desired results were and why the didn't "Pann" out would be handy...no point glossing over stuff you already looked at.
1)define what taxes are supposed to achieve.
2)define what is to be taxed....the list defined in the coporate menu looks pretty inclusive.
3)how granular is tax to be.
Start off with a simple model that can be built on...as adding is easier than tearing it down in-game, causing an even wider rift between CCP and the customer base.
Above all it must be automated and be built on a premise that it is not administratively top heavy.
Get rid of the 10% cap. |
Psylocke
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 22:59:00 -
[9]
Feedback......
Bless your soul.
|
Nafres Maelstrom
|
Posted - 2003.07.08 23:00:00 -
[10]
a simpler way to deploy tax would be alone the lines of shares,those holding shares pay one rate,those not another.
this way u can reward trusted associates whom work hard for corp by sellin them shares and tellin them there tax rate will be .02 lower,its an investment in the corp
CEO/Manufacturing and Research
img/http://www.dbhome.dk/soulclaw/images/obsidiancard.jpg/img] |
Damon Vile
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 00:37:00 -
[11]
All taxes should be able to go to 100% It should be up to the players to decide how they tax not CCP :P
1)Blanket income tax. Tax on all income.
2)Sales tax. Tax on any profit you make. I'm not sure if it would be possible to keep track of how much someone pays vrs how much they sell something for, but this would be nice for a trading tax. I.E if you pay 10 mil sell for 11 mil it would only tax on the 1 mil. If you buy 10 at 1 mil and 10 at 2 mil and sell all 20 at 3 mil it would tax 10 at 2 mil and 10 at 1 mil.... :/
3)bounty tax. Tax on bounties.
4) There should be a setting corp tax or idividual tax. So you could set a corp standard tax that applies to everyone and an individual tax that would over ride the corp tax and tax at a diffrent rate.
The corp would set the tax on #1 or #2 and #3.
|
EaglesFire
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 01:30:00 -
[12]
Just keep it simple.
1: Tax on ALL sales via the normal market.
2: Tax on all bounties.
Yes, the traders will not make as big of profit margin for themselves, but the money will go to the corp. Miners will get taxed when sell the minerals. Bounty hunters get taxed when they get bounties and when they sell recycled loot.
Also, this leaves it tax free if corp members just deposit items to the corp hanger.
Tax level should be from -100% to 100%. That way corps can reward players, if the corp has excess money. The CEO should be able to set the level from -10% to 10%, without a vote. Anything higher should be a shareholder vote. That will stop the CEO from raising taxes, taking the money and bailing.
This system taxes everyone. It may not be the best for all types of players, but it is fair to all players.
Edited by: EaglesFire on 09/07/2003 01:30:29
"Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
|
Arathmon
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 01:40:00 -
[13]
One thing I would like to see is the ability to just lift the tax off of some members. For example, in my corp our only traders are people who we trust implicitly and who have access to corp funds. So if we could remove the tax from them and just have them put in however much money they don't need for investment into trade runs, that would be cool with me.
---------------
I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
EaglesFire
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 01:46:00 -
[14]
Arathmon:
If your trusted traders have access to corp funds, what does it matter if they get taxed? When they do get taxed, they can just take the money right back out of the corp funds. Don't make the taxing system more complicated then it has to be. Have ever filed taxes in the US?!?!
"Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
|
MOOstradamus
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 01:56:00 -
[15]
In addition to taxes - how about a membership fee where a nominal amount or percentage is deducted from all personal wallets and transfered to the corporate wallet ...
Oh and if that is implemented of course a reverse movement of funds should also be an option ie: automated periodic wages.
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 09/07/2003 01:56:54
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
|
EaglesFire
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 02:33:00 -
[16]
In addition to MOOstradamus's post, I would love to see a divends payout, based on corp shares.
Edited by: EaglesFire on 09/07/2003 02:33:24
"Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
|
Jehova
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 06:20:00 -
[17]
I think the tax should be calculated on a characters profit over one day, not on all transactions. This will be fair for all members. The tax is issued as a bill to the character.
There should be an option to deduct donations to the corp from the characters tax bill. Money given to a player from the corp should be the only money not included in the tax calculation.
The CEO should be free to run the corporation as he/she chooses. The shareholders can kick the CEO out if they are not happy. They should not interfere with the daily running business of the corp.
_________________________________________________________
[email protected] |
Schola
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 06:24:00 -
[18]
Taxes I would like to see implemented, settable by CEO and Directors.
Bounty Tax
Trading Tax
Sales Tax
what I definately DO NOT want taxed, transfers of money. Be it transfers betweeon corp members or from no corp to corp.
Vae, puto deus fio!
STK Scientific
Vae, puto Deus Fio! |
Latta
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 07:27:00 -
[19]
Thanks for the post Pann,
My two ISK:
Tax on profit could be a nightmare, might be an idea to levy a sales tax on the buy side if stuff is bought from an NPC - like the government charges sales tax or VAT.
But for a start I think tax on bounties would probably be easiest.
Implement it step by step, instead of one major overhaul.
|
Braaage
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 07:30:00 -
[20]
Personally I would like to see a tax system which can be implemented to each person.
For instance it would be nice to be able to tax those corp members that are tasked with raising funds through selling. On the same level we as a corp would not like to tax the miners who earn very little income by mining constantly for the corp.
So my vote is for a per-player based tax system.
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Chagidiel
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 07:45:00 -
[21]
While I like the idea of a blanket tax, I would say that a pitfall for that would be stockmarket, once it is implemented.
You, CCP, have to make sure, one wont be taxed, when selling ones stock at a lower prise then one bought it for. Would seems rather harsh to be taxed for making a loss
|
Bolka
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 07:52:00 -
[22]
Great to get some feedback, thanks Pann!
Our corp is eagerly waiting on taxes to work, the reason is taxes is what we want to rely on to finance all the corp expenses (rents, BPs, all that a corp can provide).
The way we'd like to see it work is pretty much what has been said above:
1) the blanket tax on all and every revenue of any corp member. This is definately the first priority. This way it can be maintained as low as possible.
2) possibilities to adapt the tax to different fields, so as to encourage some professions, or be fair depending on the circumstances. For instance very high tax on ore sales, to encourage keeping it for the corp...
1 is what we're waiting for, 2 would be nice now, and probably important in the future.
|
Starfire
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:03:00 -
[23]
A tax on all sales is not going to work.
A "sales" tax should not be calculated based on sale price but on actual profit.
perhabs a system like the german vat would work, i don't know.
For Example:
I buy "good a" for 100 isk sales tax is 5%.
So now i get an entry in escrow ( for example only :D ) -5 isk sales tax(5% of 100 isk).
Now if i sell "good a" (or anything else) for 200 isk, i get an entry in escrow +10 isk sales tax and only 190 isk gets added to my wallet.
At the end of month/week all sales tax etries are added together, so now we have +5 isk sales tax coz its a positiv amount it gets added to corp wallet with an entry sales tax for member starfire. If it were a negativ amount it would just getting voided (because then i bought more
this month than i sold).
Any comments?
PS Please forgive my bad english, its not my native language :)
|
Digiball
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:13:00 -
[24]
Taxes should be as low maintenance as possible. I think that the corp should be able to apply a blanket tax to all members covering all isk income. Then a CEO should be able to adjust the tax for individuals that do trading to a system that would only tax them on another type of system (dunno how though).
Making tax too complicated will just cause a lot of admin for the management and make it hard to understand for the general Joe in the corp.
|
Agan Rafa
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:15:00 -
[25]
I think the possibility, at least, of entering a number should be given, ie: not a percentage, but a fixed daily rate like 500k or something. This would certainly make more sense for certain corps (pirates ?).
Also, a blanket sales tax system would actually work, because everyone must sell at some point: miners, producers and traders all do. This way everyone is taxed when they actually HAVE money.
Last point I'd like to make is that dividends should definitely be handled on a daily basis. Depending on how many shares you own, you receive a certain percentage (also fixable by CEO) of the corps earnings that day. This makes it attractive to own shares not only of your own company but in general, and will be in a lot of cases the same thing as having individual tax rates (ie: the more shares you own, the less taxes you pay overall). In a sense this also rewards those corps that have the best finances, since dilution (the creation of new shares) will automatically reduce the value of current holdings - and that will be bad for the large shareholders (usually senior officers of corp), which means less abuse of tax system and issuing of new shares.
*edit: Oh, and my first point would of course cover the 'bounty tax', although I would automatically assume that bounties are tax free (since in theory they've already been taxed at least once), but a fixed tax system would certainly cover those corps that engaged in a lot of this type of activity.
Edited by: Agan Rafa on 09/07/2003 08:24:22
Carebear extraordinaire |
Nicholas Marshal
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:19:00 -
[26]
Surely is a tax system can be implemented, it might also be a good idea to have a salary system as well ?
Then I could set up a salary for every corp. member per day etc.
|
Drevlin
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:38:00 -
[27]
I think there should be a possibility to set the tax for different incomes. Give us three taxes:
1) Tax on bounties
2) Tax on minerals sold
3) Tax on trade goods and items sold
This way the tax system isnt too complicated but you have a chance to fit it for most members.
|
Xhanserbal
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 08:47:00 -
[28]
I think that instead of taxes there should be a corporation bill. Say every week everyone in corp is charge x amount. This way everyone pays the same no matter how little or much they do. Amount is set by voting system my corp members.
but before you do this can you sort out office space?
|
IZON
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 09:57:00 -
[29]
Don't forget the Shares too.
"...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!" |
Korben Dallas
|
Posted - 2003.07.09 10:50:00 -
[30]
i dont know if this is possible already but alongside the 'tax' feature id liek to be able to give corp mates the ability to view but not take money from the corp wallet.
Aikon-Systems
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |