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Sordeo Regius
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.12.25 04:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just started playing again and needed to isk up for some ships. I quickly noticed how useless my drone boat was against anomaly rats. I basically have to recall drones after every rat, sometimes more often than that. My isk per hour has gone significantly down. This has made my drone boat pretty much useless.
Are people just switching off drone boats now? Anomalies are very redundant, not sure what this AI patch was supposed to accomplish, just force people away from drone boats? |

Risien Drogonne
Aliastra Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2012.12.25 05:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Use sentries. They're rarely targeted and even when they are, they can tank for a while so there's no hurry pulling them in. |

Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
64
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 09:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Target Painter.
You're welcome. |

Sasha Vykos
Orphans of Perdition
2
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Posted - 2012.12.25 09:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Still using my Rattlesnake for levels 4's and after a few early niggles i'm breezing through them like I did before the patch.
NPC AI on some missions is a bit weird at times but I haven't lost a single drone since patch day, plus the addition of a TP does seem to help.
If your worried about frigs popping ur tech 2 lights, use tech, 1 cheap and easy to replace.
T |

Capt Starfox
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
101
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Posted - 2012.12.26 00:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
I believe this might help answer your questions:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=186445&find=unread |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
452
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Posted - 2012.12.26 00:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Risien Drogonne wrote:Use sentries. They're rarely targeted and even when they are, they can tank for a while so there's no hurry pulling them in.
Actually, they're always targeted. Rats aggro drones according to size, frigs and cruisers on small drones, elite frigs and cruisers in addition on medium, BS and everything else on large and sentry. Sentries aggro everything, they just don't instapop as often. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Cris KillAlot
Celestial Darklords The Volition Cult
0
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Posted - 2012.12.26 04:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
hmm as far i expirence is that NPC frigs and Destroyers simply loves my drones... and lots of euqals dead drones... and imo it more or less made the drone boot useless in missions... since small nps will shred ypu drones... on my galente gun boots i just stop carrying any thing but L1 scout drones.. cheap.. and you can carry a lot.. which you gonna need!
All in all another nail in the coffin for all but tengu for misions.... which i think is realy sad... but then tengu have so imba for misions 2 years running that its not even funny... "good job ccp" striking whit your usually game balance. or should i game imbalance!
So nothing new, just fail!
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Zaq Phelps
Ad idem
7
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Posted - 2012.12.26 11:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Risien Drogonne wrote:Use sentries. They're rarely targeted and even when they are, they can tank for a while so there's no hurry pulling them in. Actually, they're always targeted. Rats aggro drones according to size, frigs and cruisers on small drones, elite frigs and cruisers in addition on medium, BS and everything else on large and sentry. Sentries aggro everything, they just don't instapop as often.
NPC
NPCs will now only target drones in their size category. Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
From Retribution 1.07 patch notes. |

Akuma Tsukai
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
43
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Posted - 2012.12.26 13:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Which is actually a firther nerf to the drones. |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
320
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 15:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well, I don't fly droneboats a lot, but I don't think that using sentry drones is so much different than using, say, tachs. Very few rats can hit past 60-70 km even if they go nuts and will try to get your drones with fervor... Bouncers hit just fine at that range, Omnitracked Gardes should be fine too.
To get that range, well, I believe that MJD helps.
Also before I post more stuff, I'd say that with non-droneboats, rats don't hate little things that much. Maybe people who suggest to grab aggro with TP or something are actually right... |
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Arelia Nova
7 Dancers and a caldari Shuttle
13
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Posted - 2012.12.26 16:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sasha Vykos wrote:Still using my Rattlesnake for levels 4's and after a few early niggles i'm breezing through them like I did before the patch.
NPC AI on some missions is a bit weird at times but I haven't lost a single drone since patch day, plus the addition of a TP does seem to help.
If your worried about frigs popping ur tech 2 lights, use tech, 1 cheap and easy to replace.
T
Are you using sentry or heavy's now and what where you using before patch? |

Cat Steele
The Babylon5 Consortuim
2
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Posted - 2012.12.26 18:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am not a big drone boat user however I feel that light and medium drones have been rendered nearly useless. I just had a mission where I sent my drones out 5-6k, one was insta popped, and I lost two others before I could even retrieve them. This is with durability 5 and drone navigation 5.
I am all for adapting, but I must admit I'm a little pissed off that I trained those skills to 5 and basically they are worthless the way things stand right now. |

Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
5
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Posted - 2012.12.27 10:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dont get it. Ppl that clearly roam the forums dont read the drone guide posts?
- Use Sentries (always have gardes and some missionspecific long range variant)
- NEVER use heavies againt anything else than close orbiting BSs
- In fact never use any drones except against close orbiting ships
- TP is your friend. TP 1 frig and drone the rest.
- So tbh, never use any drones other than lights on orbiting frigs. Gardes can handle close orbiting BSs
Do this and ull have no drone aggro issues. I'm more hesitant to bring my Mael into missions with heavy frig action cause of the low light drone dmg. |

Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
763
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 03:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nad'x Hapax wrote:I dont get it. Ppl that clearly roam the forums dont read the drone guide posts?
- Use Sentries (always have gardes and some missionspecific long range variant)
- NEVER use heavies againt anything else than close orbiting BSs
- In fact never use any drones except against close orbiting ships
- TP is your friend. TP 1 frig and drone the rest.
- So tbh, never use any drones other than lights on orbiting frigs. Gardes can handle close orbiting BSs
Do this and ull have no drone aggro issues. I'm more hesitant to bring my Mael into missions with heavy frig action cause of the low light drone dmg.
TPs don't hold aggro, but are still your friend. Not every ship can field sentries. Heavies are nearly useless, it's too bad some ships are designed around using them instead of sentries.
|

dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
362
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nad'x Hapax wrote:- TP is your friend. TP 1 frig and drone the rest.
My experience with the target painter was that it did absolutely nothing, i tried painting a target i was shooting at, one i was not shooting at, small and large targets. The result was always the same, once i launched i set of medium drones i would have 5-8 cruiser switch to them within seconds. After several attempts i had lost 2 drones and 5 other was in deep armor.
I tested it flying a myrmidon in Sansha's Nation neural paralytic facility (5/10 DED exploration site), where pocket two has a total 16 cruisers and battlecruisers. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |

Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
235
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Posted - 2012.12.28 07:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sentry drones do most damage of all drones. Sentries are nearly untouched by new NPCs.
NPCs absolutely tear mediums apart, but have hard time hitting light and fast drones, like warriors II.
So, either sentries or fast small drones. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae Nightshade Equilibrium
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 09:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you read above there are many ideas about how to minimize aggro on your drones and they all work to slight degree's. In short Drone boats are no longer viable for PVE due to the effort and micro management now need to operate them. You will get far better ISK/phr and an easy time using a turret boat. The problem gets worse on a logarithmic scale the more dps your drones do compared to your highs. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae Nightshade Equilibrium
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 09:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
NPC
NPCs will now only target drones in their size category. Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
From Retribution 1.07 patch notes.
This made the problem 99% worse, drone boats are simply not an option for competitive PVE, using turrets requires no micromanagement.
Drones have gone from the afk OP PVE boat of choice to useless in one patch. I'm not suggesting changing this back but players should change their strategy ie use turrets for NPC in non wormhole sec, just stating the facts. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |

Pinaculus
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
179
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 15:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:competitive PVE
What's that and where can I get some? I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
483
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 15:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Opertone wrote:Sentry drones do most damage of all drones. Sentries are nearly untouched by new NPCs.
NPCs absolutely tear mediums apart, but have hard time hitting light and fast drones, like warriors II.
So, either sentries or fast small drones.
Rats aggro drones according to size. Sentry, like heavies, get aggro from full range of rat sizes, they just tank it better. And they're not the most dmging, heavies are. Mediums doesn't get aggro from BS rats. Light drones aggro frig rats, and not elite frig rats, only regular, that's why they stay alive. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae Nightshade Equilibrium
163
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 15:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Opertone wrote:Sentry drones do most damage of all drones. Sentries are nearly untouched by new NPCs.
NPCs absolutely tear mediums apart, but have hard time hitting light and fast drones, like warriors II.
So, either sentries or fast small drones. Rats aggro drones according to size. Sentry, like heavies, get aggro from full range of rat sizes, they just tank it better. And they're not the most dmging, heavies are. Mediums doesn't get aggro from BS rats. Light drones aggro frig rats, and not elite frig rats, only regular, that's why they stay alive.
Sentry tanks squat, they move at 0-1 m/s and will insta pop from any decent battleship agro never mind 15+ NPC's. heavies are also slow as **** and soon as they start taking flack they get nailed before you can recover them. Meds and smalls jsut get chewed alive the same way.
Use turrets. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |

Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 16:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote: TPs don't hold aggro, but are still your friend.
Really!? Thing is that I grab aggro with it and as soon as I TP a frig that group wont target my drones/sentries. I rarely use my missiles (rattlesnake) |

Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 16:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:If you read above there are many ideas about how to minimize aggro on your drones and they all work to slight degree's. In short Drone boats are no longer viable for PVE due to the effort and micro management now need to operate them. You will get far better ISK/phr and an easy time using a turret boat. The problem gets worse on a logarithmic scale the more dps your drones do compared to your highs.
This have always been true because of drone traveltime. But using sentries is way better than any missileboat out there (for example). |

Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 16:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:NPC
NPCs will now only target drones in their size category. Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
From Retribution 1.07 patch notes.
This made the problem 99% worse, drone boats are simply not an option for competitive PVE, using turrets requires no micromanagement.
Drones have gone from the afk OP PVE boat of choice to useless in one patch. I'm not suggesting changing this back but players should change their strategy ie use turrets for NPC in non wormhole sec, just stating the facts.
U just want a SP refund. So to that I say something that I swore to never say... L...2...P |

Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 16:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Opertone wrote:Sentry drones do most damage of all drones. Sentries are nearly untouched by new NPCs.
NPCs absolutely tear mediums apart, but have hard time hitting light and fast drones, like warriors II.
So, either sentries or fast small drones. Rats aggro drones according to size. Sentry, like heavies, get aggro from full range of rat sizes, they just tank it better. And they're not the most dmging, heavies are. Mediums doesn't get aggro from BS rats. Light drones aggro frig rats, and not elite frig rats, only regular, that's why they stay alive.
Maybe this is how it should be but sentries rarely get aggro... from anything |

bongpacks
Mudbug Acquisition Of Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 06:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yeah I call BS on the claim that elite frigs don't aggro light drones. I just tried a sansha vigil in my gila for the first time after the patch and it took about an hour. My drones had barely left orbit when they were in armor from the 7 elite frigs in that complex. I had to just throw mediums at them to even have any chance of getting a drone into firing range and have them actually do any damage before having to call them back in. Truth is sometimes theres just not enough range between you and the frigs to pop em with sentries before they get to you and with elite frigates basically instalocking and popping your light drones and putting medium drones in hull before they can score a kill it's pretty much made drone boats worthless for PVE and made ships like the gila relics of the past. Not saying you should be able to afk missions, they could fix that with spawns, I'm just saying give the little guys a window of opportunity to at least make a dent before they 'splode. |

Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
195
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 08:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
They're not useless, but if you're not using sentries, they've become a point-blank range, monumental pain in the arse boat to use. |

Whang'Lo
300 Leet DPS
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 11:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:If you read above there are many ideas about how to minimize aggro on your drones and they all work to slight degree's. In short Drone boats are no longer viable for PVE due to the effort and micro management now need to operate them. You will get far better ISK/phr and an easy time using a turret boat. The problem gets worse on a logarithmic scale the more dps your drones do compared to your highs.
NPCs will now only target drones in their size category. Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
From Retribution 1.07 patch notes.
This made the problem 99% worse, drone boats are simply not an option for competitive PVE, using turrets requires no micromanagement.
Drones have gone from the afk OP PVE boat of choice to useless in one patch. I'm not suggesting changing this back but players should change their strategy ie use turrets for NPC in non wormhole sec, just stating the facts.
Before the patch I had a whole setup at a station for running level 4's, grinding LP.
Navy Domi, x10 of each drone type, noctis, etc etc.
Blasted right through level 4's.
After the patch, same thing.
Still blasts right through level 4's.
More DPS from the drones now because of the buff to the DDA's slightly more drone agro.
People talk like drones didn't pull agro before the patch. This isn't true, they pulled agro all the time. The AI is just a bit more aggressive now.
but when you say:
Quote:In short Drone boats are no longer viable for PVE
You have to be trolling.
|

Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
192
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 12:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:[quote=Risien Drogonne]Sentries aggro everything, they just don't instapop as often.
Sentries from an Ishtar, Gila, Dominix or Rattlesnake cannot be instapopped by ANY Lvl 4 mission. No matter if you get full aggro and then drop a single Sentry for it to get pwned on purpose.
Unless you are comatose or passed out, you can always scoop them up and most of the time not even into armor.
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