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Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 17:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: (...)
You don't need "standing mechanics" in the real world to know who's yor friend or foe.
Genius.
Thank you for your support. Thought the real world knows friendly fire. I'm looking forward to have it ingame. |

Zenethalos
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:PS: CCP should ban anyone that makes a post about how null needs to be fixed when they post with a character with no null history.
If only.
I'm not longer a residence of 0.0 with such a reduced play time so I reside in empire FW hoping to see some awesome changes to the sov mechanic in the future.
The underlying cause of all of this is CCP. They created mechanics that facilitate this current age of coalitions with no incentive not to de-homogenize the major players alliances. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
942
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Miri Amatonur wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: (...)
You don't need "standing mechanics" in the real world to know who's yor friend or foe.
Genius. Thank you for your support. Thought the real world knows friendly fire. I'm looking forward to have it ingame. And apparently you're not familliiar mechanics at all.
Friendly fire exists guy.
Having even a basic understanding of game mechanics would go a long ways to helping with your credibility guy. You should learn them. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10793
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Miri Amatonur wrote:It's the playground of large coalitions. Most systems aren't used. The coalitions brought the risk vs reward system to the ground. Where is the risk if most players there are blue to each other? From all the players who aren't blue, obviously, as well as from some who areGǪ after all, it's not like null is without continuous conflicts between a number of factions.
Quote:Remove the abitlity for alliances to set standings towards other alliances or corporations beside NPCs. Limit the available standing markers for Corporations below 10. Great idea. It would solve absolutely nothing and create a huge swath of problems, and most likely make sure that even fewer people could ever get a foothold in null. Same goes for the idea to use costs as a limiter.
Quote:Limit the proliferation of Super Capitals, Titans and the ability to project power. The mechanics of Capital ships, Super Capitals, Titans, Jump Bridges and Cynosural Fields have to be changed. How, exactly, and what difference would it make? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
146
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zenethalos wrote:The issue is not the large coalitions or the proliferation of empty space. There are a severe lack of things to do 0.0 and the core sov mechanic makes it tedious and boring for the average line pilots. Mix that with the potential for great moon goo income why would you want to risk losing it all to a rival power bloc when you guys can just bro up, secure your income and have fun bashing every one else with safety and impunity. Those who control the spice...
If 90% of the space was not worth crap, and moo goo was better dispersed, sprinkle in some other strategic combat options to take sov that does not require large fleets and then maybe, just maybe 0.0 will become interesting enough and rewarding enough to not blue up all your neighbors.
uhhhh dude...that was the greatest two paragraphs I've read on GD that I didnt write...
nailed it |

Zenethalos
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quote:Remove the abitlity for alliances to set standings towards other alliances or corporations beside NPCs. Limit the available standing markers for Corporations below 10.
This is an abhorrent idea. This would only lead to the current power blocs ingesting all of the little guys they rent/share space with to save the headache. It would create an intel channel nightmare and create an even greater disturbance in an already needlessly boring environment when you have to right click and check every one who does not have a green/blue star beside their name, |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
942
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Zenethalos wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:PS: CCP should ban anyone that makes a post about how null needs to be fixed when they post with a character with no null history. If only. I'm not longer a residence of 0.0 with such a reduced play time so I reside in empire FW hoping to see some awesome changes to the sov mechanic in the future. The underlying cause of all of this is CCP. They created mechanics that facilitate this current age of coalitions with no incentive not to de-homogenize the major players alliances. The diplomacy stuff is fine, it's working as intended.
CCP gave us the ability to build corporatins with a few thousand members, and then ally those corps with other several thousand strong corporations.
Then they put in a not insignificant investment into server technology to allow for fights with upwards of a thousand ships.
The only reason a system caps at around 2000 people is due to server capabilities and nothing to do with CCP not wanting several thousand ships shooting the **** out of each other over space. If they could support 5000 ships in a system shooting each other, they'd path it in tomorrow.
They designed the game, creatd tools, and invested in server infastructure and the development of server tech to allow us to "blob".
Why in the world do you guys think that we aren't doing exactly what CCP wants us to do. They woudn't allow us to form alliances with with over 10k members -you only need like 3 corps to that guys- and then put us all on a server with the means of allowing nearly 2000 ships to shoot each other in a fight if that's not what they wantd.
Low sec is available for everyone who doesn't want to be involved in emprie bulding, but still want the small gang/ holding, and pvp experience.
|

M1k3y Koontz
Blackened Skies
76
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: You gusy never ***** about empty high sec systems, which there are a lot of.
What game are you playing... There is no such thing as an empty highsec system, there might be systems that are less populated, but there is ALWAYS someone online in any given system in highsec. Always.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
944
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP could fix null by creating a place were people who aren't interested in emprie building can take there small friends and familly corp, build a station, and fight with other corporations, and were there isn't a proliferation of supers and titans to worry about.
They could even call it low sec so that people know that it's a different area from NPC emprie space, and player run empire space.
They can even throw in some kind of faction based pvp system so that people have a reason to take part in "war" but don't have to deal with all the sov and standing mechanics.
Wonder why CCP never made such a place.
    |

Samantha Utama
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dare to be bold, OP. FFS. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
944
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: You gusy never ***** about empty high sec systems, which there are a lot of.
What game are you playing... There is no such thing as an empty highsec system, there might be systems that are less populated, but there is ALWAYS someone online in any given system in highsec. Always. The hell there isn't.
A system with a dozen miners clearing out the one or two belts isn't exactly "utilized" to any extent. And there are many high sec systems that have only a couple of belts and no worthwhile mission agents, that very few people ever actually go into.
I know, because I was mining in those systems.
They're just as usefull as most of the null sytems, and for the exact same reason. Lack of useable content. |

Zenethalos
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Zenethalos wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:PS: CCP should ban anyone that makes a post about how null needs to be fixed when they post with a character with no null history. If only. I'm not longer a residence of 0.0 with such a reduced play time so I reside in empire FW hoping to see some awesome changes to the sov mechanic in the future. The underlying cause of all of this is CCP. They created mechanics that facilitate this current age of coalitions with no incentive not to de-homogenize the major players alliances. The diplomacy stuff is fine, it's working as intended. CCP gave us the ability to build corporatins with a few thousand members, and then ally those corps with other several thousand strong corporations. ... Low sec is available for everyone who doesn't want to be involved in emprie bulding, but still want the small gang/ holding, and pvp experience.
I agree. I love the fact that I can pile into a system with 800+ other people shooting the poop out of each other. I appreciate the fact that CCP took the time to implement the hardware to facilitate this and then followed up with some TiDi to help the flow.
The issue I have with this is that I believe that myself and many people in smaller organizations or are now glimpsing threw the looking glass at the current situation want mechanics that favor creating coalitions out of necessity not out of convenience. Once the necessity is gone the mechanics would create an incentive to breaking the coalition and get people back to shooting each other. At the current it seems like the closest we have and 0.0 NIP's to stave off the boredom.
I could be mistaken though, this is just my opinion based on my experiences and I appreciate the fact that everyone may/will have differing opinions and views on the subject. |

Max Doobie
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
NUllsec main here...and even I have to admit, the whole "Sea of Blues" thing is corny as hell.
Null should be complete and utter chaos.
That's why I have to agree with the Highseccers who laugh at Nullseccers who complain about Risk VS Reward.
I feel safer in null sec than in low or high,and thats the damned truth.
...Just sayin. Null could be a lot better. All of this buddy buddy crap is lame. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
944
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zenethalos wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Zenethalos wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:PS: CCP should ban anyone that makes a post about how null needs to be fixed when they post with a character with no null history. If only. I'm not longer a residence of 0.0 with such a reduced play time so I reside in empire FW hoping to see some awesome changes to the sov mechanic in the future. The underlying cause of all of this is CCP. They created mechanics that facilitate this current age of coalitions with no incentive not to de-homogenize the major players alliances. The diplomacy stuff is fine, it's working as intended. CCP gave us the ability to build corporatins with a few thousand members, and then ally those corps with other several thousand strong corporations. ... Low sec is available for everyone who doesn't want to be involved in emprie bulding, but still want the small gang/ holding, and pvp experience. I agree. I love the fact that I can pile into a system with 800+ other people shooting the poop out of each other. I appreciate the fact that CCP took the time to implement the hardware to facilitate this and then followed up with some TiDi to help the flow. The issue I have with this is that I believe that myself and many people in smaller organizations or are now glimpsing threw the looking glass at the current situation want mechanics that favor creating coalitions out of necessity not out of convenience. Once the necessity is gone the mechanics would create an incentive to breaking the coalition and get people back to shooting each other. At the current it seems like the closest we have and 0.0 NIP's to stave off the boredom. I could be mistaken though, this is just my opinion based on my experiences and I appreciate the fact that everyone may/will have differing opinions and views on the subject. Diplomacy isn't a mechanic that can be coded.
Small groups can get into null, you just use the tools at yoru disposal. If you lack the tool that allows you to use agressiion, you use the one for diplomacy.
The coalitions aren't formed out of neccesity. It has nothing to do with "needing" to form a coalition. It's the emergent part of the game that happesn when you give players the tools to build an empire through might or diplomacy.
It's not something that needs to be "fixed", nor is it something that ever can.
Asking CCP to "fix" the coalitions is as useful as asking them make the sky green and grass blue. Why don't we ask CCP to make cats act like dogs and dogs like ducks. I mean if we're going to ask CCP to impossible things, why not at least ask them to do something that's interesting.
You can not make people not work together. CCP can go in and disband all the alliances and remove the tools that allow us to set who is an ally and who is not. -We'll pretend that most people won't just quit, or that that woudln't be just stupid-. Everyone would still create alliances and coalitions.
The tools don't make us do this, it's our CHOICE.
10s of thousands of people are working together, something you will not see in any other MMO, it is wholey unique to EVE. And some people keep telling CCP to stop letting us do that.
That is absolutely stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
|

Nylith Empyreal
Crowbar Industries. Rebel Alliance of New Eden
209
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
It grows, expands, explodes.
Hopefully... "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
945
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Max Doobie wrote:
NUllsec main here...and even I have to admit, the whole "Sea of Blues" thing is corny as hell.
Null should be complete and utter chaos.
That's why I have to agree with the Highseccers who laugh at Nullseccers who complain about Risk VS Reward.
I feel safer in null sec than in low or high,and thats the damned truth.
...Just sayin. Null could be a lot better. All of this buddy buddy crap is lame.
I disagree.
it should be entirely based upon the actions of the players. CCP shoudl not enforce any kind of state on null. They give us the tools, and we use them to build our empires.
The "sea of blue" is no different then if all the NPC empires made peace.
Null sec is the player run version of high sec. The entire point behind null is for US to decide it's state; not CCP.
Low sec is a warzone. It's where the 4 NPC empires are fighting over sov. Low sec is intended as the place of continual chaos through developer controlled state. The players only get to decide which empire the systems belong to, but don't get to control them.
There will be another war in null, and one day there will be likely a rather large one. Untill then, anyone that wants a place of 'continual chaos" has the option to go to low, or shoot blues. |

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
146
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ya, idk why that needs constant repeating. Lowsec is the wild west. Nullsec is like antiquity. |

Max Doobie
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Max Doobie wrote:
NUllsec main here...and even I have to admit, the whole "Sea of Blues" thing is corny as hell.
Null should be complete and utter chaos.
That's why I have to agree with the Highseccers who laugh at Nullseccers who complain about Risk VS Reward.
I feel safer in null sec than in low or high,and thats the damned truth.
...Just sayin. Null could be a lot better. All of this buddy buddy crap is lame.
I disagree. it should be entirely based upon the actions of the players. CCP shoudl not enforce any kind of state on null. They give us the tools, and we use them to build our empires. The "sea of blue" is no different then if all the NPC empires made peace. Null sec is the player run version of high sec. The entire point behind null is for US to decide it's state; not CCP. Low sec is a warzone. It's where the 4 NPC empires are fighting over sov. Low sec is intended as the place of continual chaos through developer controlled state. The players only get to decide which empire the systems belong to, but don't get to control them. There will be another war in null, and one day there will be likely a rather large one. Untill then, anyone that wants a place of 'continual chaos" has the option to go to low, or shoot blues.
All I'm saying is there should be more INCENTIVE for chaos, not for them to directly break up the coalitions. Just put the bowl of candy out there. Right now there is only incentive to form coalitions. There is no incentive for going rogue and going against the grain. It's All Bureaucratic bs.
Yes I want chaos. I want drama. I want betrayal. I want blood and guts. I want action. I want Medieval Europe.,,,without the Feudalism...that's another issue I have with null. A handful of nerds have all the say and that handful of nerds are best buddies so this "Kumbaya" crap starts from the top. Splintering is not an option because the chance of a new Alliance not being blobbed is close to nil. Either that or they join a coalition and the Blue circle jerk continues.
I love my guys in Test but the fact remains, to me, Null is the SAFEST space in EVE, and that my friend is Ridonkulous.
You should FEAR going into null sec. It's the lawless land. Your heart should pound every time you even THINK about crossing that line. Most of us? Man, my heart pounds harder when I'm in Empire. |

Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 18:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zenethalos wrote:(...)
I'm not longer a residence of 0.0 with such a reduced play time so I reside in empire FW hoping to see some awesome changes to the sov mechanic in the future.
The underlying cause of all of this is CCP. They created mechanics that facilitate this current age of coalitions with no incentive to de-homogenize the major players alliances.
Zenethalos wrote: (...) The issue I have with this is that I believe that myself and many people in smaller organizations or are now glimpsing threw the looking glass at the current situation want mechanics that favor creating coalitions out of necessity not out of convenience. Once the necessity is gone the mechanics would create an incentive to breaking the coalition and get people back to shooting each other. At the current it seems like the closest we have and 0.0 NIP's to stave off the boredom.
@Zenthalos I really like your style. Maybe i had some provocative headlines to get it rolling. That is exactly the problem that CCP needs to adress. They created the current systems that led to boredom not much fun. They are the ones who could fix it.
Max Doobie wrote:
NUllsec main here...and even I have to admit, the whole "Sea of Blues" thing is corny as hell.
Null should be complete and utter chaos.
That's why I have to agree with the Highseccers who laugh at Nullseccers who complain about Risk VS Reward.
I feel safer in null sec than in low or high,and thats the damned truth.
...Just sayin. Null could be a lot better. All of this buddy buddy crap is lame.
There is support out of the "Sea of Blues".
CCP go back to the drawing board with SOV 0.0. A major revamp is needed.
|

Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
146
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 19:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Max Doobie wrote:All I'm saying is there should be more INCENTIVE for chaos, not for them to directly break up the coalitions. Just put the bowl of candy out there. Right now there is only incentive to form coalitions. There is no incentive for going rogue and going against the grain. It's All Bureaucratic bs.
Yes I want chaos. I want drama. I want betrayal. I want blood and guts. I want action. I want Medieval Europe.,,,without the Feudalism...that's another issue I have with null. A handful of nerds have all the say and that handful of nerds are best buddies so this "Kumbaya" crap starts from the top. Splintering is not an option because the chance of a new Alliance not being blobbed is close to nil. Either that or they join a coalition and the Blue circle jerk continues.
I love my guys in Test but the fact remains, to me, Null is the SAFEST space in EVE, and that my friend is Ridonkulous.
You should FEAR going into null sec. It's the lawless land. Your heart should pound every time you even THINK about crossing that line. Most of us? Man, my heart pounds harder when I'm in Empire.
Yes, you want "conflict drivers", as we all do.
There is a big difference between more reasons to fight and less ability to coordinate. The former is a good thing, the latter is a bad thing.
|

Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 19:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: Yes, you want "conflict drivers", as we all do.
There is a big difference between more reasons to fight and less ability to coordinate. The former is a good thing, the latter is a bad thing.
Us pointed out a bit above some of the stuff was put in to get it rolling.
More conflict drivers could be more corporations and alliances that are active within SOV 0.0. The current stagnant super coalitions with their sea of blues is a major problem for that. The current mechanics and sets of rules led to it. That needs to be adressed an changed. CCP defined that and they have to do it. That the current leaders of that super coalitions don't like the change is easy to understand. They are likely to lose alot of power and influence.
Let the hammer fall on the old system. |
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CCP Falcon
1574

|
Posted - 2012.12.25 19:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
Nonconstructive rant.
Locked.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á-á@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents
-- Disciple Of The Delicious Tea -- |
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Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.25 19:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Anyway there should be some kind of penalty of growing numbers. It's to easy to enforce your will if there are to many members within one Alliance/Corporation.
The mechanics of the past years paved the way to BoB, CFC and all the others above a certain number of members. |
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