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NPC Corps - Time for a change?

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SegaPhoenix BREAKING-POINT Primal Force 58	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:39:00 - [31] - Quote All of these suggestions are missing the point completely. Eve is driven by player interaction. There's no way you can tax/wardec or grief the interaction into them. Here's the kicker, I'll say it again, Eve is driven by player interaction. As a player it would be YOUR sole responsibility to show NPC corp solo players what makes the rest of EVE so great. Befriend them, show them the ropes and teach them. I have personally cuddled up to introverted players, gained their trust, and taken them on their first gank or taken them pvping. Every single time you introduce a different aspect of emergent gameplay to somebody who doesn't know it you open their brains to the adrenaline rush and the fun involved in creating or destroying something. These players become smart, skilled and loyal players in any corp or alliance in EVE.
Malphilos State War Academy Caldari State 264	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:43:00 - [32] - Quote One slot per account. Permanent death.
Merouk Baas 152	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:48:00 - [33] - Quote Please keep in mind that NPC corps are where players get dumped when inactive or when kicked out of corp. by their peers. You can't put hangar rental fees or any such automatic payments on characters that are inactive, that would screw them up. Also, you guys are talking about "incentives" to leave the NPC corps, but your specifics are all to force people out of the NPC corps. There are plenty of incentives already, what you want aren't incentives. I don't disagree with your proposals, but call a horse by its name. Personally, I'd like to see CCP get rid of the NPC corp membership mechanic altogether. Independents should have no corp at all. And as far as whether a group can declare war on an independent individual, maybe they can expand the bounty-hunting system to allow independent individuals to be hunted (as if wardecced) somehow. But anyway, no rental fees; unsubscribed characters sit in NPC corps and can't pay monthly fees while unsubbed.
James Amril-Kesh RAZOR Alliance 1594	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:51:00 - [34] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Stolen from Natsett Amuinn's post... Quote: The "wider game" is what Soundwave is talking about when he says: Quote: NPC corporations are meant to be temporary spaces where people can go about their daily activities while searching for a player corporation. Currently the level of comfort they provide, both in terms of war declaration immunity and 0% tax, give them an inherent advantage over player corporations which was never intended. Hopefully, this will let player corporations compete on equal footing with NPC corporations. We would prefer that players join player corporations, or other entities that shape the world of EVE at a higher degree than the NPC corporations do, due to their impersonal and somewhat isolated role. That said, this change is not implemented to GÇ£destroyGÇ¥ NPC corps, they should be considered a small motivation to join a player corporation, where you can develop and flourish as a player. NPC corps aren't being used for their intended purpose. They're being exploited for the increased safety with no penalty. What with the changes made in Retribution I think it's high time that NPC corporations are reconsidered since they do not fit with the general flow of player activity intended by CCP. Agreed completely. -áObjects in mirror aren't as red as they appear.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2058	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:11:00 - [35] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Lady Spank wrote: Stolen from Natsett Amuinn's post... Quote: The "wider game" is what Soundwave is talking about when he says: Quote: NPC corporations are meant to be temporary spaces where people can go about their daily activities while searching for a player corporation. Currently the level of comfort they provide, both in terms of war declaration immunity and 0% tax, give them an inherent advantage over player corporations which was never intended. Hopefully, this will let player corporations compete on equal footing with NPC corporations. We would prefer that players join player corporations, or other entities that shape the world of EVE at a higher degree than the NPC corporations do, due to their impersonal and somewhat isolated role. That said, this change is not implemented to GÇ£destroyGÇ¥ NPC corps, they should be considered a small motivation to join a player corporation, where you can develop and flourish as a player. NPC corps aren't being used for their intended purpose. They're being exploited for the increased safety with no penalty. What with the changes made in Retribution I think it's high time that NPC corporations are reconsidered since they do not fit with the general flow of player activity intended by CCP. Agreed completely. AFKing your freighter should be expected, it's been done ~forever~. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 262	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:29:00 - [36] - Quote I'd like to see some of the following; NPC corps under the same war system as Faction Warfare militias. This is the only way to nerf to wardec avoiding freighters I can think of without some contrived NPC corp limit on piloting those ships. No more having the freedom to go anywhere by hiding in an NPC corp. Players in NPC corps only having access to factory/research lines in stations owned by their NPC corp. A 10x increase in per hour cost factory/research in all NPC stations, and a 100x increase in install cost that can be brought down with standings.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2059	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:31:00 - [37] - Quote Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: I'd like to see some of the following; NPC corps under the same war system as Faction Warfare militias. This is the only way to nerf to wardec avoiding freighters I can think of without some contrived NPC corp limit on piloting those ships. No more having the freedom to go anywhere by hiding in an NPC corp. Players in NPC corps only having access to factory/research lines in stations owned by their NPC corp. A 10x increase in per hour cost factory/research in all NPC stations, and a 100x increase in install cost that can be brought down with standings. Pretty sure the one man disbanding corp can do most of the same things. It's more effort though since every mining alt would have to move to the new corp or perhaps make its own corp and all that. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 262	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:41:00 - [38] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: I'd like to see some of the following; NPC corps under the same war system as Faction Warfare militias. This is the only way to nerf to wardec avoiding freighters I can think of without some contrived NPC corp limit on piloting those ships. No more having the freedom to go anywhere by hiding in an NPC corp. Players in NPC corps only having access to factory/research lines in stations owned by their NPC corp. A 10x increase in per hour cost factory/research in all NPC stations, and a 100x increase in install cost that can be brought down with standings. Pretty sure the one man disbanding corp can do most of the same things. It's more effort though since every mining alt would have to move to the new corp or perhaps make its own corp and all that. The effort of jumping corps is at least something. Permanently parking high skilled characters in NPC corps and having access to _everything_ in highsec is too much though.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:51:00 - [39] - Quote CCP needs to start taxing stupidity so this kind of thread stops showing, specially from individuals using/abusing game mechanics for years and crying all day long "CCP gimme yer hand I can't do it by my self". The problem is not NPC corps, the problem is not those players or alts in, the problem once again comes from fps shooters moaning crying mumma (ccp) for candies (nerf) because their life is too hard...oul+ál+á. ...always remember if eve becomes too hard or boring for you, it's time to get some fresh air, have a drink with a nice lady and eventually have some real sex, then you'll be back and figure out there's no problem with NPC corps or with Eve pixels, well except if you're using W8 64 pro versions.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2059	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:52:00 - [40] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: CCP needs to start taxing stupidity so this kind of thread stops showing, specially from individuals using/abusing game mechanics for years and crying all day long "CCP gimme yer hand I can't do it by my self". The problem is not NPC corps, the problem is not those players or alts in, the problem once again comes from fps shooters moaning crying mumma (ccp) for candies (nerf) because their life is too hard...oul+ál+á. ...always remember if eve becomes too hard or boring for you, it's time to get some fresh air, have a drink with a nice lady and eventually have some real sex, then you'll be back and figure out there's no problem with NPC corps or with Eve pixels, well except if you're using W8 64 pro versions. And then you can join an NPC corp and make use of all the NPC protectection and highsec game mechanics you want. NPC, because non-players are the best players. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Sarah Schneider PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore 1639	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:53:00 - [41] - Quote Imho, there should be severe limitations for people still in NPC corps, but not to the extent that they can't play and enjoy the game albeit those limitations. For instance (just throwing up random ideas here), production slots, sell/buy order slots, etc. and there should be way(s) to interfere with those activities (production, trading, or anything else major) via wardecs or other form of ingame conflicts. Sentamon wrote: Enjoy your 75% drop in subs. Throwing random numbers are we? I can do it too, Eve'll be getting 28.59% increase in subs by the end of 2013, 15.4% of total population at the time will move to lowsec, 32.5% will move to null and the rest will stay in hisec. My numbers have two digits decimal, I win! How to : Playing Eve 100% Risk and Conflict FREE!
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1048	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:53:00 - [42] - Quote i cant think of anything wrong with NPC corps. the only thing they do is make it harder to grief people at the cost of losing all corp tools, such as hangers, POSs, BMs ect, and i don't have a problem with this.
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes 9	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:54:00 - [43] - Quote the problem here is that many people in npc corps dont see any advantages to gain by leaving. quite a lot of them are in npc corps because they got into a war or three they didnt want to fight, and bailed into npc corps because they dont find it fun to be in a war nerfing existing content will just make people angry, and more importantly, will probably not work all that well to the desired goal to get people to leave, they have to see some potential gain by joining, most npc corp people i talk to, DO NOT see that gain they see player corps as added risk, with no extra gain nasty nerfs wont really work because that will make people leave the game rather then the npc corp aside from cowards, a lot of people are in npc corps because they dont have friends in player corps what would really be needed, is if some new gameplay mechanic, would be only for player corps, for example, agent missions, that are not available to people in npc corps something like special group missions, like a corporation, could accept a mission, and then the people in the corp had some objectives, which would mabey require more then one person to do mabey make a corp lounge area for the stations, so to not be the only person you ever see in a station, you need to be in a player corp things like that would help a lot more then taxes and restrictions i bet :)
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:01:00 - [44] - Quote SegaPhoenix wrote: All of these suggestions are missing the point completely. Eve is driven by player interaction. There's no way you can tax/wardec or grief the interaction into them. Here's the kicker, I'll say it again, Eve is driven by player interaction. As a player it would be YOUR sole responsibility to show NPC corp solo players what makes the rest of EVE so great. Befriend them, show them the ropes and teach them. I have personally cuddled up to introverted players, gained their trust, and taken them on their first gank or taken them pvping. Every single time you introduce a different aspect of emergent gameplay to somebody who doesn't know it you open their brains to the adrenaline rush and the fun involved in creating or destroying something. These players become smart, skilled and loyal players in any corp or alliance in EVE. This, but admit it's easier to moan about high sec and NPC corps or hit F1 on miners. They clearly need CCP to give them arenas with purplez lewt and funky titles, free ships and macros ability because you know, it's easier.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2059	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:05:00 - [45] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: This, but admit it's easier to moan about high sec and NPC corps or hit F1 on miners. They clearly need CCP to give them arenas with purplez lewt and funky titles, free ships and macros ability because you know, it's easier. Are people still killing miners? Gotta buff those again, maybe try add an extra 50% EHP on them. Funky titles to go with monocles sounds like a good step to the future. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:12:00 - [46] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: CCP needs to start taxing stupidity so this kind of thread stops showing, specially from individuals using/abusing game mechanics for years and crying all day long "CCP gimme yer hand I can't do it by my self". The problem is not NPC corps, the problem is not those players or alts in, the problem once again comes from fps shooters moaning crying mumma (ccp) for candies (nerf) because their life is too hard...oul+ál+á. ...always remember if eve becomes too hard or boring for you, it's time to get some fresh air, have a drink with a nice lady and eventually have some real sex, then you'll be back and figure out there's no problem with NPC corps or with Eve pixels, well except if you're using W8 64 pro versions. And then you can join an NPC corp and make use of all the NPC protectection and highsec game mechanics you want. NPC, because non-players are the best players. You can't generalize the action of leaving player run corporations for NPC ones in a single title but then what is then your proposal? How are you going to expose each and every single situation where some player does not have the choice, for whatever amount of time or reason, to stay in player run corporations or move to NPC one? And how are you going to cover all the problems related if those can't join NPC corporations again? Please be my guest to explain how it would be so much better for the game and please explain how this should be done.
Pyre leFay The Scope Gallente Federation 166	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:14:00 - [47] - Quote Eraza wrote: aside from cowards, a lot of people are in npc corps because they dont have friends in player corps what would really be needed, is if some new gameplay mechanic, would be only for player corps, for example, agent missions, that are not available to people in npc corps The struggle against nerfing NPC Corps in any fashion is because of the backlash of course. Yet adding better pay missions outside of NPC corps or other benefits by needlessly increases isk flow is a bad idea. Anyway those still doing older missions in NPC corps are still making less than player corps. Not just because of tax but because of the isk inflation. Nerfing npc corps is just the same as buffing everything not NPC corp. Its not missions though that are the problem with NPC corps, they get a dandy tax against all income from that action. The beef is not about people getting tired of wardecs and need an escape. That seems perfectly reasonable, but it has also doubled as the go to empire miner corp and not being used as intended.
Guttripper State War Academy Caldari State 186	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:16:00 - [48] - Quote Since wardeccing NPC corp players seems to be a nagging issues, then why not change the game to allow players to wardec individual players instead? Thus a player once wardecced can not skip into another corp to avoid the war - it follows him or her until surrender conditions are met. And instead of someone talking smack and "hiding" behind his or her corp, and further more their alliance, let people stand up for themselves instead.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:17:00 - [49] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: This, but admit it's easier to moan about high sec and NPC corps or hit F1 on miners. They clearly need CCP to give them arenas with purplez lewt and funky titles, free ships and macros ability because you know, it's easier. Are people still killing miners? Gotta buff those again, maybe try add an extra 50% EHP on them. Funky titles to go with monocles sounds like a good step to the future. You don't need to fake buff ships and then give bounties to make it profitable again, it's one step forward, two back. Doesn't change absolutely nothing about bots, despite some fervent defenders, but once again changes on the number of people willing to spend money in some game where they can't have fun, and this admit it or not, is an argument of balance because you can have as many alts as you wish but the real content is real players, not a guy playing alone in his own server with an army of alts.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2059	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:17:00 - [50] - Quote Guttripper wrote: Since wardeccing NPC corp players seems to be a nagging issues, then why not change the game to allow players to wardec individual players instead? Thus a player once wardecced can not skip into another corp to avoid the war - it follows him or her until surrender conditions are met. And instead of someone talking smack and "hiding" behind his or her corp, and further more their alliance, let people stand up for themselves instead. "This will promote griefing". "You should always be able to avoid nonconsensual pvp" "Not in my highsec". Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 35	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:25:00 - [51] - Quote Pyre leFay wrote: Eraza wrote: aside from cowards, a lot of people are in npc corps because they dont have friends in player corps what would really be needed, is if some new gameplay mechanic, would be only for player corps, for example, agent missions, that are not available to people in npc corps The struggle against nerfing NPC Corps in any fashion is because of the backlash of course. Yet adding better pay missions outside of NPC corps or other benefits by needlessly increases isk flow is a bad idea. Anyway those still doing older missions in NPC corps are still making less than player corps. Not just because of tax but because of the isk inflation. Nerfing npc corps is just the same as buffing everything not NPC corp. Its not missions though that are the problem with NPC corps, they get a dandy tax against all income from that action. The beef is not about people getting tired of wardecs and need an escape. That seems perfectly reasonable, but it has also doubled as the go to empire miner corp and not being used as intended. NPC corps have 11% tax, players in have no access to specific facilities or advantages you can have in a player run corporation except can't be wardec. If player run corporations and alliances are that unattractive then it's about time for their leaders to stop complaining/flying funky officer fit stuff and make sort their corp becomes more attractive?? Remember it's a player driven content and then you'll figure out the major problem is how bad many players are to create attractive content for other players. Quote: Since wardeccing NPC corp players seems to be a nagging issues, then why not change the game to allow players to wardec individual players instead? Good news, use bounty system and gank NPC players for profit. Problem solved, if there really is or ever was some problem with NPC corps.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2060	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:28:00 - [52] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Quote: Since wardeccing NPC corp players seems to be a nagging issues, then why not change the game to allow players to wardec individual players instead? Good news, use bounty system and gank NPC players for profit. Problem solved, if there really is or ever was some problem with NPC corps. Who will put a bounty of random NPC corp freighter alt for you? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Elrich Kouvo Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:44:00 - [53] - Quote Pyre leFay wrote: Yet then groups of individuals, or even groups of alts would each make personal corps and so you could only ever wardec 1 at a time. Which stems from a problem with the ease to create solo corps. Yet would it be bad to make them harder to create? So get players out of npc corp but make it harder to make player corps? You've been drinking too much eggnog.
Dave stark 927	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:46:00 - [54] - Quote Hannah Flex wrote: Tax ALL income of an NPC corp player by 50% That'll get 'em out. Sure they'll just make their own 1 man corp and continue playing MMO's solo but at least you could wardec them for their shitposting on EVE-O until you find a way to tax mining, even a 100% npc corp tax won't stop me sitting in my wardec immune npc corp mining until my heart's content. i don't stay in the npc corp in order to abuse this feature, however what reason do i have to leave? i have lossless refining and my own near perfect orca boosting pilot. there's nothing a corp can offer me that would make me want to risk being wardecced. then we really have to ask ourselves if npc corps are too good, or that player corps haven't got enough to offer? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:47:00 - [55] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Quote: Since wardeccing NPC corp players seems to be a nagging issues, then why not change the game to allow players to wardec individual players instead? Good news, use bounty system and gank NPC players for profit. Problem solved, if there really is or ever was some problem with NPC corps. Who will put a bounty of random NPC corp freighter alt for you? Why would you put a bounty on a freighter pilot when all you need is 7/8 Talos+2/3 brutix T2 fitted?
Dave stark 927	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:48:00 - [56] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Quote: Since wardeccing NPC corp players seems to be a nagging issues, then why not change the game to allow players to wardec individual players instead? Good news, use bounty system and gank NPC players for profit. Problem solved, if there really is or ever was some problem with NPC corps. Who will put a bounty of random NPC corp freighter alt for you? Why would you put a bounty on a freighter pilot when all you need is 7/8 Talos+2/3 brutix T2 fitted? because then, every time you get your talos and brutix together, every one gets a nice wallet flash! Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
bloodknight2 Talledega Knights 34	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:50:00 - [57] - Quote A lot of us have alt in NPC corp for running mission or other useful things like an alt used for price check in Jita/hek/Amarr. I have an alt in perkone (perkone corp best corp) for running lv4 in Shuria and chatting with the others corp members. The "running away from wardec" is stupid. Anyone can create his 1 toon corp and never be wardecced ever and if he is, can simply close the corp and make a new one.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:51:00 - [58] - Quote Dave stark wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Quote: Since wardeccing NPC corp players seems to be a nagging issues, then why not change the game to allow players to wardec individual players instead? Good news, use bounty system and gank NPC players for profit. Problem solved, if there really is or ever was some problem with NPC corps. Who will put a bounty of random NPC corp freighter alt for you? Why would you put a bounty on a freighter pilot when all you need is 7/8 Talos+2/3 brutix T2 fitted? because then, every time you get your talos and brutix together, every one gets a nice wallet flash! You put a 500M bounty in freighter pilot "x", gank him with yer fellah's and you're just getting back 20% of that bounty, bad operation is bad. Just go there and gank, problem solved.
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes 10	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:52:00 - [59] - Quote Pyre leFay wrote: Eraza wrote: aside from cowards, a lot of people are in npc corps because they dont have friends in player corps what would really be needed, is if some new gameplay mechanic, would be only for player corps, for example, agent missions, that are not available to people in npc corps The struggle against nerfing NPC Corps in any fashion is because of the backlash of course. Yet adding better pay missions outside of NPC corps or other benefits by needlessly increases isk flow is a bad idea. Anyway those still doing older missions in NPC corps are still making less than player corps. Not just because of tax but because of the isk inflation. Nerfing npc corps is just the same as buffing everything not NPC corp. Its not missions though that are the problem with NPC corps, they get a dandy tax against all income from that action. The beef is not about people getting tired of wardecs and need an escape. That seems perfectly reasonable, but it has also doubled as the go to empire miner corp and not being used as intended. well, true, alt use of npc corps has always been a bit of a problem, although that specifically is related to most people dont actually make money in pvp, and need some place to retreat to, that i have no clue how to fix the problem with the empire mining retreat that some do, is that when someone clearly wins a war, someone lost.. and that loosing party needs to recover and rebuild somehow. and if the winner is stubborn and keeps them in a war, then they need to bail, or alt, to be able to continue actually play the game.. that i'm not sure can be fixed obviously group missions shouldn't directly pay more, we don't need inflation, i meant they should be more complex, more challenging, things like that.. lastly there is a difference between nerfing one thing and buffing everything but that thing, the problem is that nerfs tend to make people angry..
James Amril-Kesh RAZOR Alliance 1595	Posted - 2012.12.25 22:54:00 - [60] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: You put a 500M bounty in freighter pilot "x", gank him with yer fellah's and you're just getting back 20% of that bounty, bad operation is bad. Just go there and gank, problem solved. That's not how bounty works. -áObjects in mirror aren't as red as they appear.

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