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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
457
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 19:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
I never tire of seeing people unironically complain that getting insurance is "unfair" or "imbalanced" when they get an infinite supply of omnipotent NPC buddies who will absolutely 100% kill anyone who fucks with them.
You see people in hi-sec are entitled to be safe because Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 19:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
Because what? Entitled to be safe because what? OMG now we'll never know.
But seriously do you think taking away insurance pay outs is going to stop suicide ganking? I could afford to suicide gank without insurance and I'm not even rich in EVE standards.
It just seems like a dumb thing to whine about. Sure taking away insurance makes sense. Expecting the gankings to stop or slow down does not. |

Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
407
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 19:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
you know what makes sense about eve insurance?
nothing
"hmm let me sell you insurance on this battleship at prices that ensure I lose money, and if you forgot to buy insurance? well, we'll just give you some free money" |

Zleon Leigh
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 19:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I never tire of seeing people unironically complain that getting insurance is "unfair" or "imbalanced" when they get an infinite supply of omnipotent NPC buddies who will absolutely 100% kill anyone who fucks with them.
You see people in hi-sec are entitled to be safe because
Hmmm - did the filters get turned off?
Concorde should have a kill board.... Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. |

Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
409
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 19:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
what do supersonic jets have to do with anything |

Bane Necran
75
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 19:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:what do supersonic jets have to do with anything
Everything, man, everything. |

Tetragammatron Alpha
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 20:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Seems goonNoob tears made CCP nerf super caps so perhaps pubbie tears will make CCP nerf suicide ganking?? |

Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
410
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 20:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
csm chairman the mittani will get right on communicating your concerns |

Nephilius
Pillage and Plunder Salvage Co.
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 21:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Zenith Intaki wrote:Just make it so that outlaws can't activate any gates inside high sec and make concord spawn and pod outlaws.
There is no reason why outlaws can travel through lowsec in pod or in fast aligning ship.
I don't have any problem with suicide ganking when ganker has positive sec status. But being able to do continous ganks without any real penalty is just bad for the game.
This is what needs to happen. If your sec status is too low for a hisec system, you simply cannot enter that system. You wanna go in, work your secstat back up. It won't stop suicide ganking, but it'll make it where they have a consequence for doing it too often.
Personally, positive secstat should go to 10, I never understood why it only goes to +5. Make CQ and WiS an option, not a must.-á I don't play EvE for the toon spinning. |

The Apostle
The Black Priests
202
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 21:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hey y'all. Easy fixed.
If Concord is called in, an attendance fee is charged to the ganker/s account and the gankee get's the cash.
THAT would make ganking fun, for BOTH parties.
Bah. Forget it. Can't have Win/Win in Eve.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|

Jita Alt666
332
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 21:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Hey y'all. Easy fixed.
If Concord is called in, an attendance fee is charged to the ganker/s account and the gankee get's the cash.
THAT would make ganking fun, for BOTH parties.
Bah. Forget it. Can't have Win/Win in Eve.
When my cricket team beat your cricket team we should have to pay you so you have some fun? |

The Apostle
The Black Priests
202
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 21:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:The Apostle wrote:Hey y'all. Easy fixed.
If Concord is called in, an attendance fee is charged to the ganker/s account and the gankee get's the cash.
THAT would make ganking fun, for BOTH parties.
Bah. Forget it. Can't have Win/Win in Eve.
When my cricket team beat your cricket team we should have to pay you so you have some fun? Errr. We do.  Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|

Too Much Effort
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 21:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode |

Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 21:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
0August0 wrote:I'd like to see the Ganker automatically relocated to the nearest low security system.
The nearest one is usually only 3 jumps away. It just seems far with auto pilot set to safe. |

Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
423
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 21:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Too Much Effort wrote:gay broken post
how about no |

Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 22:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ganking = good game mechanic Ganking with free ship replacement = bad game mechanic. Mr Epeen 
A pretty decent summary of my rther lengthy spiel.
I would go as far as saying its a broken game mechanic, rather than just bad, which likely most of us have used to one point or another, however most could agree it makes 0 sense. |

Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 22:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Weaselior wrote:i like the insurance change because it means only we, the rich, can gank
and you'll expect it even less and cry about it even more yeah i'm completely comfortable with removing insurance from concord losses, it will only make our victims more confused because people in hisec can literally only conceive of motivations relating to isk
If you want to pay for 100,000 Battleships and blow 'em up thats your business. The insurance company though, should laugh at your requests for reimbursement.
P.S. also would be a very good isk sink which EVE is sorely lacking enough of at present. Must get rid of that botted nullsec isk somehow if CCP aren't going to bring out the mass ban/confiscation wagon. |

Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 22:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:You do realize they take a big standing hit for doing this and it takes a bit of time ratting in low sec to even be able to fly in high sec again right.... Not to mention that EVE is a game based on Risk / Reward. So if you are flying something you aren't willing to lose. I suggest you don't fly it.
I am calling BS on this one. Maybe you have spent too much time in null and game mechanics are a little fuzzy?
Its actually very easy to be -10 and flying in empire. There are numerous -10 suicide gankers who 'live' permanently in Empire and carry out their trade very effectively.
Please stop trying to derail the topic with red herrings. |

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
98
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 22:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Excessive suicide ganking? Where!?
Suicide ganking is not near the level it used to be some years ago. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |

Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 22:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I never tire of seeing people unironically complain that getting insurance is "unfair" or "imbalanced" when they get an infinite supply of omnipotent NPC buddies who will absolutely 100% kill anyone who fucks with them.
You see people in hi-sec are entitled to be safe because
No different to real life (and no don't start bleating about EVE not being real life because thats pretty obvious to most of us ). The principles of civilised society are basically the same everywhere. Police are one of those.
Bank robbers and clocktower snipers get themselves an almost unlimited suppy of police/military in most civilised countries (Highsec?). Go to Somalia though (low/null), and well, as long as you aren't hobnobbing with a local warlords family said clocktower sniper can pretty much do whatever they damned well want.
If you want the facilities of civilised society, you get their laws and police too.
Another red herring. |

Trusty Jutspezic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 22:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vastek Non wrote: If you want to pay for 100,000 Battleships and blow 'em up thats your business. The insurance company though, should laugh at your requests for reimbursement.
If you're looking for a lore excuse for a gameplay mechanic just assume the insurance companies want to encourage suicide ganks so people have a reason to insure their mining ships. Damn, that fits in with the dystopian atmosphere of eve pretty well do I get my writing job with CCP now or do I have to give the alliance presentation at fanfest first?
Quote:P.S. also would be a very good isk sink which EVE is sorely lacking enough of at present. Must get rid of that botted nullsec isk somehow if CCP aren't going to bring out the mass ban/confiscation wagon. PS ISK SINKS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY |

Epsilon Artiste
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 23:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
If you think about who an insurance companies customers are in eve, I'll give you a hint - it's not hisec. I'd venture a guess that perusing the record books of the insurance company would find that miners etc don't insure their ships, because they don't expect to lose them. No isk for insurance companies.
So insurance companies will most definitely pay out claims to their favourite customers, especially because they are brining new business by encouraging more people to use their services and insure their ships. Win win! |

Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 00:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Epsilon Artiste wrote:If you think about who an insurance companies customers are in eve, I'll give you a hint - it's not hisec. I'd venture a guess that perusing the record books of the insurance company would find that miners etc don't insure their ships, because they don't expect to lose them. No isk for insurance companies.
So insurance companies will most definitely pay out claims to their favourite customers, especially because they are brining new business by encouraging more people to use their services and insure their ships. Win win!
FYI, actual insurance companies refuse to insure those who are constantly claiming - they actually want to make a profit, not a loss. If the only people requesting insurance are guaranteed to be claiming, the insurers would be better cleaning toilets for a living.
If you cannot understand how accepting (hypothetically) a 10m insurance premium knowing they are going to be guaranteed in 10 minutes of paying out 100m is a bad business model, then all hope is lost Real insurance companies simply get around this by refusing to pay out in case of criminal action.
Summary: Insurers don't want customers who are going to claim, they want those who do not so they can munch on those nice premiums year in, year out. |

Epsilon Artiste
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 00:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Vastek Non wrote:Epsilon Artiste wrote:If you think about who an insurance companies customers are in eve, I'll give you a hint - it's not hisec. I'd venture a guess that perusing the record books of the insurance company would find that miners etc don't insure their ships, because they don't expect to lose them. No isk for insurance companies.
So insurance companies will most definitely pay out claims to their favourite customers, especially because they are brining new business by encouraging more people to use their services and insure their ships. Win win! FYI, actual insurance companies refuse to insure those who are constantly claiming - they actually want to make a profit, not a loss. If the only people requesting insurance are guaranteed to be claiming, the insurers would be better cleaning toilets for a living. If you cannot understand how accepting (hypothetically) a 10m insurance premium knowing they are going to be guaranteed in 10 minutes of paying out 100m is a bad business model, then all hope is lost  Real insurance companies simply get around this by refusing to pay out in case of criminal action. Summary: Insurers don't want customers who are going to claim, they want those who do not so they can munch on those nice premiums year in, year out.
I think you missed the part where most of hisec doesn't insure their ships, so most of hisec aren't even their customers. Those that do insure their ships (RvB I'm lookin at you) do it because they know they're gonna die. Insuring and paying out their nullsec customers is simply good business.
Eve is an insurance companies nightmare. No sane insurance company would open for business in eve, losing ships is what podpilots do best. So realism isn't exactly front and center here.
An insurance company isn't gonna care about some uninsured miner getting whacked, dudes not a customer. The insurance company pays customers for ships lost, period. Being in red ink is what being an insurance company in eve is all about - they're insane to begin with, c/d? |

Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 00:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Epsilon Artiste wrote:Vastek Non wrote:Epsilon Artiste wrote:If you think about who an insurance companies customers are in eve, I'll give you a hint - it's not hisec. I'd venture a guess that perusing the record books of the insurance company would find that miners etc don't insure their ships, because they don't expect to lose them. No isk for insurance companies.
So insurance companies will most definitely pay out claims to their favourite customers, especially because they are brining new business by encouraging more people to use their services and insure their ships. Win win! FYI, actual insurance companies refuse to insure those who are constantly claiming - they actually want to make a profit, not a loss. If the only people requesting insurance are guaranteed to be claiming, the insurers would be better cleaning toilets for a living. If you cannot understand how accepting (hypothetically) a 10m insurance premium knowing they are going to be guaranteed in 10 minutes of paying out 100m is a bad business model, then all hope is lost  Real insurance companies simply get around this by refusing to pay out in case of criminal action. Summary: Insurers don't want customers who are going to claim, they want those who do not so they can munch on those nice premiums year in, year out. I think you missed the part where most of hisec doesn't insure their ships, so most of hisec aren't even their customers. Those that do insure their ships (RvB I'm lookin at you) do it because they know they're gonna die. Insuring and paying out their nullsec customers is simply good business.
I think you missed the part of the opening post that indicated this referred to high sec. And of course, completely missed the point of the whole OP.
Well done I guess. |

Epsilon Artiste
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 01:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Vastek Non wrote:Epsilon Artiste wrote:Vastek Non wrote:Epsilon Artiste wrote:If you think about who an insurance companies customers are in eve, I'll give you a hint - it's not hisec. I'd venture a guess that perusing the record books of the insurance company would find that miners etc don't insure their ships, because they don't expect to lose them. No isk for insurance companies.
So insurance companies will most definitely pay out claims to their favourite customers, especially because they are brining new business by encouraging more people to use their services and insure their ships. Win win! FYI, actual insurance companies refuse to insure those who are constantly claiming - they actually want to make a profit, not a loss. If the only people requesting insurance are guaranteed to be claiming, the insurers would be better cleaning toilets for a living. If you cannot understand how accepting (hypothetically) a 10m insurance premium knowing they are going to be guaranteed in 10 minutes of paying out 100m is a bad business model, then all hope is lost  Real insurance companies simply get around this by refusing to pay out in case of criminal action. Summary: Insurers don't want customers who are going to claim, they want those who do not so they can munch on those nice premiums year in, year out. I think you missed the part where most of hisec doesn't insure their ships, so most of hisec aren't even their customers. Those that do insure their ships (RvB I'm lookin at you) do it because they know they're gonna die. Insuring and paying out their nullsec customers is simply good business. I think you missed the part of the opening post that indicated this referred to high sec. And of course, completely missed the point of the whole OP. Well done I guess.
Missed nothing I have. Into the mirror you should look, hmmmm?
You're whining about insurance companies that have few customers in hisec paying out insurance claims to their paying customers when they gank non-paying customers. In your zeal to punish the bad men that make you mad, you're making dumb connections and can't understand any arguments to the contrary. |

Vastek Non
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 02:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
Epsilon Artiste wrote:[quote=Vastek Non][quote=Epsilon Artiste][quote=Vastek Non][quote=Epsilon Artiste] Missed nothing I have. Into the mirror you should look, hmmmm?
You're whining about insurance companies that have few customers in hisec paying out insurance claims to their paying customers when they gank non-paying customers. In your zeal to punish the bad men that make you mad, you're making dumb connections and can't understand any arguments to the contrary.
Cognitive Dissonance is bad ok 
I would also like reality to be different but its not. This is a thread on how to deal with, using real world examples, what is basically an abuse of a strange game mechanic without breaking the 'sandbox' for more serious players (and I view ganking as a legitimite gameplay strategy), NOT how 1000 years in the future insurance companies want to make a loss because ships exploding is pretty and flashy.
In your scenario insurance companies wouldn't exists as HS would be 'the mog' revisited. There is already low and null, understand?
|

Epsilon Artiste
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 02:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Vastek Non wrote:Cognitive Dissonance is bad ok  I would also like reality to be different but its not. This is a thread on how to deal with, using real world examples, what is basically an abuse of a strange game mechanic without breaking the 'sandbox' for more serious players (and I view ganking as a legitimite gameplay strategy), NOT how 1000 years in the future insurance companies want to make a loss because ships exploding is pretty and flashy. In your scenario insurance companies wouldn't exists as HS would be 'the mog' revisited. There is already low and null, understand?
Its not an abuse of a game mechanic. People welp ships all the time, it happens. Combat is brutal in the dark cold sphere of internet spaceships. Drug runners evade hisec police in their attempt to smuggle their produce to captial pilots and pvpers.
Insurance is simply there to soften the loss of a ship. Insurance in eve is nonsensical to begin with. No matter which way you look at it their business model is horribly broken and they lose isk by the freighterloads even without hisec ganking. We accept that the same way we accept ships having crews that float around in space after their ship welps gasping their last breath as the capsuleer warps back to station to collect his insurance payment. You're comparing modern day insurance practices to this?
Won't even comment on your "more serious players" remark, it tastes of bitterness and elitism. |

Lexmana
Imperial Stout
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 09:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
CONCORD is overpowered. IRL, most criminals get away with their act so it makes sense that insurances are also overpowered to balance things.
If CONCORD was nerfed however.. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
460
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 09:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:CONCORD is overpowered. IRL, most criminals get away with their act so it makes sense that insurances are also overpowered to balance things.
If CONCORD was nerfed however..
I have long been a supporter of the concept implied here.
Yes, the idea of "insurance" being paid to reimburse a pilot who deliberately engages in a crime seems absurd*, but as a matter of economics and game balance, it's required. If CONCORD was more nuanced and less omnipotent, such that they were merely difficult to evade, then we could go ahead and stop insurance for hi sec pirates. And EVE would be all the better for it.
*Although not much more absurd than reimbursing them for virtually every other way of losing a ship in EVE: "So let me get this straight sir, you deliberately and knowingly flew your ship to the site of a "Pirate Invasion" where you knew that there would be not just one but a whole fleet of Sansha pirates, your ship was destroyed as a direct consequence, and now you expect Mutual Assured of Isinokka to pay you for your reckless act? Good day to you, sir!") Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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