Sure this has to be done carefully though, imprudently nerf hisec mining for example, and inflation will skyrocket, and people will whine about plex prices going to a Billion possibly.

If their going to nerf anything nerf null get rid of the tech moons, make it so people actually have to work for their isk

If only our 20bil a pop stations were totally invulnerable like their free ones which they get multiple of in some systems.

Your point seems to be that turning null-sec into high-sec is very expensive and potentially time consuming. And ultimately a failure. And that bothers you.

I've read through all posts, actually interested.
Then i saw this and went ...

... WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN ?

Could you translate, please? Just so i can keep context ... thanks.

There's a lot of incoherent stuff here.

I'm pretty careful about fallacies, and I haven't employed any here.

According to you:

Building things is okay.

So long as . . . it's not more efficient to build things in high sec.

What you want is a null sec that has stations at least as good as high sec for, well, everything.

That's what it sounds like.

That's just about the stupidest **** I've read today.
Never post again.

The fact is many hisec players will still venture into losec / WHs to do good PI etc there, just because they prefer hisec, doesn't mean theyll Never leave it, and so the pirates will continue to have targets, overnerf hisec, and you get fewer players in the game, and fewer targets for null/losec.

Your argument is that there is something wrong with people who don't go around killing each other at every chance and cooperate in an attempt to make money . . . this is somehow bad, and not what happens in the real world, and not, under any circumstances, what should happen in EVE?

You really think anyone is going to buy this idea?

The fact he drew an ascii dong shows that it was in no way serious.

Guys, Im sorry to intrude on the Eternal Debate of Nerf Others, but you seem to miss the most important point here.

Its all about profits.

CCP is not some imaginary outfit full of idealistic nerdlings , dreaming of making the most interesting and original space game for all peoples, but a company that has to pay salaries and limit layoffs in generally tanking Western economy.
All company boards are the same, and Im strangely certain the CCP one isnt an exception.
The question of the day isnt , `Oh, how to make nullsec interesting and pvp meaningfull??`
Its rather;
1.Ok guys, how do we get the soccer moms?
2.The Guild Wars 2 is tanking hard, how do we get those players today?
3. STO is making mistake on mistake, lets incentivize those customers that want a space game without a blatant cash-grab approach, and in 2 months they will buy plex for sure
3. WoW population seems to have stabilized, how do we get those customers this month?
4.TSW seems to be slowly losing subscriptions, here`s a goldmine for this trimester.

For any company, its first get new customers- the hardest part, then retain the old customers.
And its obvious for anyone that the fabled new customer wont be attracted by the perspective of being thrown in the nullsec corp at the whims of a screaming man-child with a nascent god complex.
The new customer does not want his time investment being blown by a gate camp.
The new customer wants to relax after a hard day in the office, trying desperately to hold on a job that may or may not be delocalised soon.
The new customer wants complexity that can be slowly assimilated and exploited in (seemingly) innovative ways.
And so on.

Recent CCP efforts are all in this direction, btw, to retain the economic balance, which reposes mainly on ships being destroyed and produced, all the while making more hi-sec content.
Drone nerf and the `Wholesale Aggro` experiment produced scores of expensive pve ships lost, and being replaced.
The cute new little Venture is a marvelous tool for hi-sec miners to plunge into wormholes and losec to get those Ladars.
The superb rebalanced cruisers are ready for short, cheap losec intrusions.
The Bounties system is a blatant attempt to produce some more destroyed ships in hi-sec, not because of the negligible bounties of course, but attempting to cash on the shooting sprees that seem to happen with the new criminal/suspect system.
And so on.

In my opinion, CCP will continue to move into hi-sec consensual pvp/pve hybrid direction, as that seems to satisfy the most numerically important customer base.

Its all about profits.

You try to build large quanities of anything in Wormhole space and see the fact that the costs soon out weight the rewards.
Yes we can build some things in Wormholes but no way near the amounts that can be built in Null
And to top it all off Null has access to ice to power those POSs and Moon Goo to help fund those POSs. That is even before we get to the fact that in null you are no more than a few minutes from the nearest Hi-Sec market via cyno.

So NO null has not gotten the bad end of the manufacturing stick by a long run.

As I have said Player owned should be better than NPC but I think giving null huge quantities of Hi-sec minerals would just make super caps owned by every person and their dog as well as completely destroying the hi-sec markets.

Well W-space IS the frontier that wasn't meant to have large industrial capability. What it does have is the best PVE you can get anywhere, plus relative isolation and safety afforded by various mechanics and balanced only because there's no local.

I don't hear w-space residents clamoring for changes, I'm fairly sure they like it the way it is for the most part.

i spent 6 or 7 months of my and my corp activity to build outpost in 0.0. Mined, grinded alloys, lots of PI and stuff.
1 month after system was lost because alliance failed at war.

So what's your point again? you got lucky to get into right alliance so you have cake. i haven't and cake was taken from me. and there is difference. All the difference.

it's all good and refreshing.

However would anyone describe to me why the hell CONCORD pays for killing rats in 0.0? Who the hell would even care about them infesting spaces which belongs to noone? Remove CONCORD payouts from killing NPC in 0.0 and it will be more reasonable space

You reak of e-machismo and e-bravery. You must be, like, a dragon slayer in real life.

Down with the e-cowards! Am I doing it right?

is there really? ask a wormholler how much they mine.

ok.

- Any numbers please?
- Any reasons why it should be CCP's job to compensate risks PROVIDED BY PLAYERS?

i guess you missed the point of my question. I asked about your numbers for compensation for risks of bold part. Not for number of outposts people lose/capture every day.

Nullsec's unique industry resource is supposed to be T2 production. Not necessarily the items used to manufacture it (moon goo), the end result should be ships and mods.

How much of this stuff do you see manufactured in nullsec and imported to empire?

Oh no, there is dookey in your end of the sandbox! Shall you hold your nose and scoop it out, or just go and poop on the other side to make it match? Decisions, decisions. Oh wait, we're dealing with the vast web of insecurities & egomania of modern internet culture, so the answer is obvious: More poop for everyone.

"There is no such thing as justice. There is only the desire to see the pain spread around equally."
- Solomon Short

If you make it harder for people in hisec, you wont get more people moving to low/null

You musn't take away even 1% of their refining in highsec.

There is a lot of truth here, jealousy can get the better of people, so instead of doing something about improving their own circumstance, some just want every one to share their problems, that doesn't bode well for progress in Eve.

But would that not mean that WH space then needs to be buffed to make the risk vs reward higher than Nulls

POSs that refine at a mere 75% does make POS less desirable, buff POSs, Im ok with that.

400 mill an hour what a load of crap. Try way lower than that. And we can't just cyno our stuff to the nearest Hi-sec market.

Isolated is the word however and the more isolated the more of a ***** it is to get to a market.

Hmm, wonder why the null bears dont cry "nerf WHs!" I mean if you find an isolated WH, and scan reguarly, risk is minimal.

I am all for a completely balanced industrial universe.

So let's have cap ship building and the ability to move them to where needed, moon goo and moon mining in...HIGH SEC!

Jump freighters too, to avoid those pesky bottlenecks.

Then we would be equal.

Well give you Concord too if you would like.

null sec working as intended

player controled content

blob take space rince repeat few times then cry on forums to nurf other areas

I'd buy 3 of those stations today!

if u want full industry rebalnce then yes


can allways war dec the corp building

What about

blue lists
blobbers (oh you mentioned that)
supercapitals
falcon
boosting alt
afk cloaking
local

No, I am inferring that nerfing hi sec has not worked ever so far (L4 missions nerfed about 7 times since 2009) .

That very much depends on your definition

He can't sell me 3 hi sec stations for 20B a pop. I'd love to set them names and other things.

Or you could define it as an unwarranted sh!t decision by CCP, expecially those who did not roll Caldari.

They incremented the totally unneeded ISK faucet while causing a flood of LP (later worsened for some items by FW) making player generated "content" (trading the LP) less important and NPC faucet more important.

I for one would love to see new content in Null that'll inspire me to go there, at the moment theres None, unless i wanna go there to get instapopped, after flying through dozens of empty systems

. Inspire us Hisec dwellers with something CCP.

You mean the plankton, right?

And in this game mostly made up of the masochists who also provide the entertainment for the sadists higher up them in the 'food chain'.

Who cares about game balance, ~my highsec experience~ is something you can all enjoy.

AFKing a mackinaw on ice in highsec is easy, low risk and fun. Try it.

Why? If it's a sandbox and you're given choices, then why should you be incentivized to leave? If anyone/thing wants you away and gone, why have that there in the first place? There's already rules about terrorizing newbie pilots, but nothing saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec.


So now you are indeed taking the sandbox element out of the picture thinking that high/low/null is a set value of "level" of gameplay.

Guess what, it isn't.

The above was not in reference to one of your statements.

But one about the fact that any form of incentive to go somewhere other than Hi-sec is not a sandbox feature.

I do love how hisec players cite the "sandbox" as a compelling reason why hisec should have the ridiculously high rewards and convenience it offers, while demanding that other aspects of the "sandbox" be curtailed if not removed (i.e. suicide ganking, canflipping, etc.)

You can insist all you want that the problem isn't with hisec. It is.

What? Balance what? This is not a game where you have one base and I have a base and you say that your base is smaller and has less windows from where to shoot from. Everyone has access to the same base and can come and go as they please, and when shooting happens, we all do it somewhere else anyway like lowsec, and if you can't enter that hisec base because of your security status then you already know how that happened.

What? Balance what? This is not a game where you have one base and I have a base and you say that your base is smaller and has less windows from where to shoot from. Everyone has access to the same base and can come and go as they please, and when shooting happens, we all do it somewhere else anyway like lowsec, and if you can't enter that hisec base because of your security status then you already know how that happened.

"hisec, the newbie area..."

It's funny how you manage to accuse and point the finger everywhere but yourself in this post. You don't think that people have relocated to hi sec because they're just not welcome into your space?

Maybe. But it doesn't make much sense he refers to his alts as "targets".

I still say that the nullsec players will never be happy with highsec rewards, because it has the highest population.

Having 100 other people with you in a busy missioning system cuts down the odds that you will be the person scanned down considerably, and would even work in lowsec if that many people could be dragged out there.

It's even better protection than CONCORD in some places.

High sec doesn't need nerfed anymore than it has been already. It is the most dangerous place in Eve to live/play.

I agree with you, fix Null sec, its Broken, Null sec has Vastly superior asteroid belts to Hisec.

Well for one, a single Veldspar roid has a lot more volume in Null sec than in Hisec, thats pretty obvious I thought, but youre not gonna mine it unless youre surrounded by blues, no little group of miners is gonna risk it out there by themselves.

CCP should really just add two zero's at the end of each player built station slots and be done with it till an industrial revamp expansion.

Also now there is the subject of belts null bears are bringing up. So how much are you wanting removed from high sec and moved to null sec? Try and be precise on what you feel is 'balanced' in percentage terms.

Well .............. just go there with a survey scanner, its pretty easy to prove.

Gee I'll move to nullsec because the roids are so big and fat oh whoops I forgot it meant I had to actually pay attention to the game instead of just pressing a button or two every 2-3 minutes as I would in hisec oh well I'll make less isk for more effort because there's almost no demand for minerals in nullsec I'm sure it'll be worth it in the end

In short, null isn't meant for industry. Highsec is.

So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server.

Because you guys are adopting a "grass is greaner on the other side of the fence" mentality as to what you "should" have, as a player of a game you log in to. Instead of playing by the rules, you're finding ways to find issue with them.

You don't want to ferry stuff from highsec, which is the best area for industry, because you think null should have good enough industry to not warrant it, therefore removing highsec need from nullsec desires. Ok fair enough.

Take away the synergy. Cool. Now it's nullsec dependant. Why have highsec at all then? Let's see how far your idea takes us down the rabbit hole shall we? Is your end desire to have a Wow-Esque model of shards and servers and clusters? Because alientating one security of space is doing exactly that.

So ramp up industry in null! Hell yea! Now gives highsec better bounty rats! Why not? It's none of null's business now! They are their own entity! **** off nullbear, this is my area! Oh wait, highsec is governed by Concord! That's right, highsec can't stop you from entering (not without risk of course, sec standings and all that).

So now you have a player governed highsec because highsec has better industry and it makes nulls jelly. Boohoo.

And Malcanis, of course the devs have stated that null isn't meant to focus on industry. How can 10 years of developing be so wrong? If it was so broken, don't you think it would have had something done about it by now? Oh wait, you want the absolute of a dev typing it? Then go find it, not my problem to prove against your accusations. I'm not the one trying to reinvent the wheel here.

But you can make more isk in null than highsec.

What's in it for us?

Well, 2 sides to that.

1)stop spending so much in null.

I went to Null and it was full of Scrubs

Yea strange isnt it. Damn that highsec for having everything. Because miners can afford everything~!

I guess it's up to you to prove me wrong then.

Well, you've been advocating it so far. Who's side do you want to take? I'm either telling the truth and you're wrong, or you're right and I'm lying about being in null.

Not my fault you can't trust anything.