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Bishbosh
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:13:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Bishbosh on 05/06/2005 14:15:13
Edited by: Bishbosh on 05/06/2005 14:14:57
Hey,
I'm curious what the EVE developer's veiws are on this matter - Ore-Theif's.
I've just about had enough of it, I was doing an agent mission and I check out local and what a surprise there is a (Blatant) alt charater stealing from a two week old character. All we could do was sit there and watch as he approached stealing what could of been over an hour of ore, this would of killed me and made me quit.
Now tell me, if this isnt an exploit? But as there IS nothing that (Two week old.) player could of done or anyone else for that matter how isnt that an exploit?
How can this kind of thing be allowed - This is destroying newer player's expirience of the game (Not nessicarily this person.) I've seen people stealing from where the new character's start thus stopping them from progressing in this game.
If I've missed something and there is a way to mine safely in secure space without having too haul every 10 minutes, please tell me. I know there are secure can's but tell me, how is a new player meant to know that??
[Edit] I seem to have posted as one of my alt's, don't know why it should post as my main - Space Chutney.
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Alt Of Space Chutney, if this character has posted, I probaly didnt set it up right... |
ZaKma
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:21:00 -
[2]
exploit? nay! this is seen as game mechanic just like real life, if you where digging sumin and putting it in a bucket anyone can come up, sure you can beat the living day lights out of them but youll be arested, i dont approve but dont expect any help from ccp, and rightly so imo
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:23:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Bishbosh
If I've missed something
1. The 100000001 other threads on the subject.
2. Secure Cans (You dont want to haul so often? tough t1tty mate, its part of the game)
tbh all you tards should stop spamming the forums with the same old crap.
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Space Chutney
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:27:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Space Chutney on 05/06/2005 14:28:05
I'm allowed to post this no matter how many post's have already been made - Yes, I know secure can's.
But tell me, you don't mind people stealing off a newly created charater on a new account prehap's?
Is there a part in the tutorial that tells you, you have to use a 'secure can' to mine safely which also cost more money that the 1k that you start off with! Good luck.
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Verone
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:30:00 -
[5]
I rate this thread at 2 grapefruits out of 10. More effort needed.
Added grapefruits may be included for :
> Profanity.
> Excessive ranting.
> Funny replies.
> A Dev posting with "STFU and use a secure can".
> Transferring 500,000,000 isk to my account in small unmarked, used bills.
Thank you, and have a lovely day :)
COME AND SOCIALISE WITH US NASTY SNIGG BASTARDS AT : WWW.SNIGG.CJB.NET |
SinBin
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:34:00 -
[6]
its all good for disucuion shurly ?.
2. Secure Cans (You dont want to haul so often? tough t1tty mate, its part of the game)
How does a secure can play a part in npc loot ?
I moved away from empire to avoid it is best.
Corncord are very lame & any real police force would not last long working like concord. the can you jetterson has your name also & so many love to say it dont yet npc loot dosnt have your name.
If a cop saw the person take something out your bucket & you said io coppa I didnt say he could take that then he would get nicked for stealing, low sec offocrse would be the can thiefs area of work.
_______________________________________
Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
Maybe end the election round will do it ?
& could save hundred of Users & Mods pain. |
Verone
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:35:00 -
[7]
"Exploit" : using game mechanics for something that they were not intended.
"Jettison" : to eject, to discard something unwanted.
Jet-cans were intended to be used to get rid of unwanted stuff from cargoholds, into space, and to contain loot drops from NPC's and destroyed ships.
They were only used for mining when people realised their large capacity, if anything it is jetcan mining that is the exploit.
If someone comes running over in a hauler and steals your ore, you've jettisoned it knowing full well that it is in space, and is no longer your property.
Originally by: Space Chutney
Is there a part in the tutorial that tells you, you have to use a 'secure can' to mine safely which also cost more money that the 1k that you start off with! Good luck.
Is there a part of the tutorial that says "use jetcans to maximise your profit, and mine redicilous amounts of ore with no risk at all in 1.0 space"?
Thought not. KTHXBYE. 
COME AND SOCIALISE WITH US NASTY SNIGG BASTARDS AT : WWW.SNIGG.CJB.NET |
Space Chutney
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:40:00 -
[8]
Right then, so you don't mind people stealing from someone new to the game, that is like stealing of a baby, wouldnt accept that would you?
I dont care about people being stolen off when they are a month+ old but when they are little over an hour?!
Oh and for your knowlege- If someone steals from my 'trash' in real life I can also get them arrested, so if you want to relate it to real life consider that.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 05/06/2005 14:42:48
Well, there actually is a part of the q&a for new players that alerts them to the risk of using jetcans whike mining, and lists the alternatives.
Of course, no one reads that untill it's too late and people need to point it out in threads like these.
As for stealing loot of new characters, I used to see new characters stealing my loot too back when I mined in high sec alot. Could I retaliate ? No. Is it lame to steal from noobs ? Yes. Does it need changing ? Nope. Anything in space belongs to the person that gets to it first, eve basic law.
As for the developers' stance on ore theft, they have already stated multiple times that jetcan mining invited ore theft and that that is something they are quite at peace with.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Larno
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: Bishbosh
If I've missed something
1. The 100000001 other threads on the subject.
2. Secure Cans (You dont want to haul so often? tough t1tty mate, its part of the game)
tbh all you tards should stop spamming the forums with the same old crap.
Wow, whats youre secret? I've never been able to anchor them in noob space (1.0-0.8).
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Bishbosh
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:48:00 -
[11]
Oh yea, thanks for reminding me of that, you can't anchor in 1.0-0.8 so...
How does a 'n00b' mine for the first time safely?
Getting there first should not determine wether the contents are yours.
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Alt Of Space Chutney, if this character has posted, I probaly didnt set it up right... |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.05 14:50:00 -
[12]
Secure cans are complete bullcrap.
First of all they are freakin tiny.
Second of all there is no way to place them any where near asteroids to begin with because belts are so cluttered with them.
An on top of that, if you want to mine half way efficiently you're gonna need several of them in multiple belts.
Fact is, jetcan mining is the only efficient way to mine, and even that gives you less money then running missions with about ten times the chance of someone coming in and stealing your stuff...
I'm pretty sick of people defending ore thieves, the fact is, they are just another nail in the coffin of the ecconomy, and just another factor that drives people away from this game before they even really started playing.
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Orroit Arkid
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Posted - 2005.06.05 15:06:00 -
[13]
Yep there are 3 ways to avoid ore-thieves in high sec systems...
1) fill your hold with ore and warp back to the station each time - using bookmarks saves a lot of time here.
2) afk indymine... get an industrial ship, put a mining laser on it and just sit at a big roid and read a book
3) mine in a team with others, have most mining all the time, one player in a hauler just collects the stuff and takes it back to the station, proceeds are split between participants. And yep, you need to trust each other.
I used to find a quiet 0.9 system and take my chances. Ore thieves mostly hang out in noob and neighbouring systems. But the golden rule still applies, if you've got more in your can than you're prepared to lose, it's time to haul it.
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Bishbosh
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Posted - 2005.06.05 15:07:00 -
[14]
That JETTISIONED stuff - Is STILL mine. Check the can, it will have my corporation tag on it, and if you check it's bio thingy it has my face as the owner.
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Alt Of Space Chutney, if this character has posted, I probaly didnt set it up right... |
Kimiela
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Posted - 2005.06.05 15:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Verone
"Exploit" : using game mechanics for something that they were not intended.
"Jettison" : to eject, to discard something unwanted.
Jet-cans were intended to be used to get rid of unwanted stuff from cargoholds, into space, and to contain loot drops from NPC's and destroyed ships.
There actually is a part of the tutorial that does instruct the new player to jettison the can and add to it as they mine. Perhaps it would benefit others to go back and refresh their memory of the beginnings.
They were only used for mining when people realised their large capacity, if anything it is jetcan mining that is the exploit.
If someone comes running over in a hauler and steals your ore, you've jettisoned it knowing full well that it is in space, and is no longer your property.
Originally by: Space Chutney
Is there a part in the tutorial that tells you, you have to use a 'secure can' to mine safely which also cost more money that the 1k that you start off with! Good luck.
Is there a part of the tutorial that says "use jetcans to maximise your profit, and mine redicilous amounts of ore with no risk at all in 1.0 space"?
Thought not. KTHXBYE.
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Verone
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Posted - 2005.06.05 15:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bishbosh
That JETTISIONED stuff - Is STILL mine. Check the can, it will have my corporation tag on it, and if you check it's bio thingy it has my face as the owner.
Legally, If you put something in the bin at home, and then put the bin out to be emptied, yes, they stuff is still in YOUR bin... however, that stuff is free for anyone to take, because it is not ON YOUR PROPERTY.
The fact that your house number may be stamped on the bin is irrelevant, anything put in there has been "discarded".
And as a point, if I found some scratty little bastard sifting through my bin, i'd smack his face in. But then it's me who's on the wrong side of the law, and in danger of being prosecuted, just like you get CONCORDOKKENE'D if you spank someone taking you ore.
Simple. Deal with it.
COME AND SOCIALISE WITH US NASTY SNIGG BASTARDS AT : WWW.SNIGG.CJB.NET |
Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.06.05 15:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bishbosh
Hey,
I'm curious what the EVE developer's veiws are on this matter - Ore-Theif's.
I've just about had enough of it, I was doing an agent mission and I check out local and what a surprise there is a (Blatant) alt charater stealing from a two week old character. All we could do was sit there and watch as he approached stealing what could of been over an hour of ore, this would of killed me and made me quit.
Now tell me, if this isnt an exploit? But as there IS nothing that (Two week old.) player could of done or anyone else for that matter how isnt that an exploit?
How can this kind of thing be allowed - This is destroying newer player's expirience of the game (Not nessicarily this person.) I've seen people stealing from where the new character's start thus stopping them from progressing in this game.
If I've missed something and there is a way to mine safely in secure space without having too haul every 10 minutes, please tell me. I know there are secure can's but tell me, how is a new player meant to know that??
You can either mine securely, or mine quickly in empire...but you cannot do both. IF you jettison it you forfit all ownership rights in CCPs eyes. Its been this way for 2 years and they arnt going to change it. So lets just deal with this and shut the **** up. Oh, and stealing from babies 4tw.
God Damn my sig is still so sexy 
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.05 15:23:00 -
[18]
If you put your briefcase down in a subway anyone is allowed to take it, because you didn't hold it in your hand. If you park your car in the street anyone is allowed to take it because it's not on your property...
Real life examples are stupid.
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Bishbosh
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Posted - 2005.06.05 15:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Bishbosh on 05/06/2005 15:26:16
Originally by: Noriath
If you park your car in the street anyone is allowed to take it because it's not on your property...
Where the hell do you live?! I can park my car anywhere (Which is legally allowed.) and should expect it to still be there. As it DOES still belong to me. If that was true, carpark's would have no use, airports would go bust, you would have too walk everywhere as you couldnt use your car to visit anywhere.
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Alt Of Space Chutney, if this character has posted, I probaly didnt set it up right... |
SpaceCleaver
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Posted - 2005.06.05 18:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Simon Magus
Edited by: Simon Magus on 05/06/2005 17:38:46
Edited by: Simon Magus on 05/06/2005 17:38:29
Taking jettison cans isn't stealing. I like to think of myself as cleaning up junk left floating in space. It could cause accidents with all these people thowing cans out of their windows.
Why dont you go clean outside empire? There's lots of cans out there
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Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2005.06.05 19:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Simon Magus
I like to think of myself as cleaning up junk left floating in space.
Sure you do. And escrow scammers like to think of themselves as economic educators. But they're still just escrow scammers.
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Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.06.05 20:01:00 -
[22]
I hate orethieves as much as the next player, but, if you mine in a can, you`re stupid imho.
You know orethieves can steal your ore, and still you choose to mine in a can? That is just plain stupid, and you have yourself to blame. So quit whining, and haul the ore.
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
SinBin
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Posted - 2005.06.05 20:17:00 -
[23]
hehe escrow scammer I love that I mean it has an ispect option, do you buy a watch in a closed box & assume its what you wanted ?.
Q, Why do ccp allow ore thiefs
A, dont pretend to be a noob to get help & stop mining noob belts dry.
_______________________________________
Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
Maybe end the election round will do it ?
& could save hundred of Users & Mods pain. |
Law Enforcer
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Posted - 2005.06.05 20:28:00 -
[24]
All you have to do to stop someone from taking from your can. Is to hold the items in mid drag from your can to another can and no one can snag it while its in that position.
Nevertheless declare war on the ore stealers and if they say any profanity petition them plain and simple.
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MooKids
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Posted - 2005.06.06 03:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Law Enforcer
All you have to do to stop someone from taking from your can. Is to hold the items in mid drag from your can to another can and no one can snag it while its in that position.
Nevertheless declare war on the ore stealers and if they say any profanity petition them plain and simple.
What if they empty both cans and collapse them both? Also sounds like the "e" word might be involved there.
--------------------------------
CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Eriv Kendri
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Posted - 2005.06.06 15:48:00 -
[26]
The only real problem i see is that noobs aren't getting the info they need (for whatever reason) about the risks of jet-can mining. Once you understand how it really works, it's just another one of the many risk/reward equations you face in eve play.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.06 15:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Avon on 06/06/2005 15:51:13
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.06.06 15:56:00 -
[28]
There is an interesting post in Crime and Punishment, which I mostly agree with.
Linkage
"Mostly" agree. Jet Can are not "exploit" They are a f |
Kazoki
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Posted - 2005.06.06 16:04:00 -
[29]
Ore-Thieving is wrong, I agree. Is it right that people can do it? Yes.
Imagine leaving your house for a nice trip and leaving your doors and windows wide open. Anyone could potentially walk in and steal everything. This is wrong. You can stop it h |
Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.06.06 16:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 06/06/2005 15:51:13< |
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