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Flardowell
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.12.31 06:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
So aside from the fact that its made killing things with drone nearly impossible, along with turrets and soon to be missiles when they can be affected by tracking disruptors, what was the biggest hit that the new AI changes have hurt?
New players
How you might ask?
Lets say someone is very new to the game, maybe has a cruiser with one or two lasers and is somewhat interested in this game (god knows why). Well, you're a l4 mission runner, or lets say you're a null-sec denizen and you managed to get them to join you. In the past, what would you have done? "Hey my newbro friend, why don't you come join me in this mission/sanctum. You can see what this will be like when you get bigger, milk a bit off of my bounties, salvage a few wrecks, and have a good time with me while we chill."
Now?
Sure, have him warp to a mission or complex to die in a matter of seconds. Now these new players are resorted to doing silly little l1-l2 missions, or waiting patiently in a noctis to hoover up a site. You're really telling me thats the best way to get hooked on this game?
And I don't want to hear anything about "They need to put in the time to get sp to do those missions." If it wasn't for the older players of this game showing how this game can actually be somewhat fun, or bringing on a newbro friend just to see them oooo and aaaahhh over things you've grinded 5000 different times, what would be the point?
I'm sorry, but with all the nerfing CCP has done in the past, from sec status to everything else to make isk harder and harder to obtain, how do they think this is going to affect new players who want to explore this universe? Lets make drone boats useless, TD's right now are killing turrets and soon they'll kill missiles. Go try to gank someone in a mission/sanctum and use ewar, and just watch what happens as your ship pops. But inadvertently messing with the newer players? Yea... |

Reiisha
Evolution The Retirement Club
172
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Posted - 2012.12.31 06:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Missions are such a tiny part of the game, yet they still received a much needed boost in fun. They were utterly boring before, now they got a little interesting at least.
A new player who judges the game solely on missions is kinda missing the point of the game. |

Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
196
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Posted - 2012.12.31 08:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Missions are such a tiny part of the game, yet they still received a much needed boost in fun. They were utterly boring before, now they got a little interesting at least.
A new player who judges the game solely on missions is kinda missing the point of the game.
GTFO.
Missions didn't change. Nothing is more interesting.
Quote:Missions are such a tiny part of the game
Ya, that's why every nullbear crys about "nerf hi-sec". Rait.
At least 50% of hi-sec people do missions. And Hi-sec people are like 80% of this game. Whatever. |

Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1412
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Posted - 2012.12.31 08:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:Reiisha wrote:Missions are such a tiny part of the game, yet they still received a much needed boost in fun. They were utterly boring before, now they got a little interesting at least.
A new player who judges the game solely on missions is kinda missing the point of the game. GTFO. Missions didn't change. Nothing is more interesting. Quote:Missions are such a tiny part of the game Ya, that's why every nullbear crys about "nerf hi-sec". Rait. At least 50% of hi-sec people do missions. And Hi-sec people are like 80% of this game. Hi-sec people do missions?
The horror, I might have to change my position to kill them all  Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Reiisha
Evolution The Retirement Club
173
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Posted - 2012.12.31 08:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:Reiisha wrote:Missions are such a tiny part of the game, yet they still received a much needed boost in fun. They were utterly boring before, now they got a little interesting at least.
A new player who judges the game solely on missions is kinda missing the point of the game. GTFO. Missions didn't change. Nothing is more interesting. Quote:Missions are such a tiny part of the game Ya, that's why every nullbear crys about "nerf hi-sec". Rait. At least 50% of hi-sec people do missions. And Hi-sec people are like 80% of this game.
Missions did change, however tiny the change was. It's not the 'autopilot' activity it was before Retribution.
As for missions being a tiny part: They are, even if you don't want to see that. Missions are one of the thousands of things you can do in the game. That so many people have the imagination of a comatose brick wall is deplorable, but it doesn't change that fact. If people choose the monotony of replaying that tiny content bit over and over, that's their choice, whining about it doesn't make their missing the point of the game less relevant.
That said, 99% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot and i doubt yours is an exception. |

Rain6635
Team Evil
40
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Posted - 2012.12.31 08:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
OP you might be right, but I'm supportive of AI improvements that make missions more exclusive.
serpentis remote sensor dampeners applied to my basilisk almost got my golem killed. sort of.
this bump in difficulty makes missioning more relevant, I think.
EWAR cuts into my shield tank now that I'm required to use things like remote sensor boosters, but it's about time. |

Kestrix
Industrial Renaissance MinTek Conglomerate
47
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Posted - 2012.12.31 08:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Flardowell wrote:So aside from the fact that its made killing things with drone nearly impossible,
Not true. Missions are now a little bit more engaging as I have to actively manage my drones to keep them alive. I do wish they would change missions even more, change things around from DT to DT, introduce new missions, take others away keep us mission runners on our toes... the one thing I hate most is being able to go onto a web site and read a detailed account of what the mission entails, how to tank it what damage type to dish out, who the triggers are... mix it all up CCP get my pulse going again when I warp into a mission not knowing what to expect! |

Lutin Ballista
Ballista Investment Corp
48
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Posted - 2012.12.31 09:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:Flardowell wrote:So aside from the fact that its made killing things with drone nearly impossible, Not true. Missions are now a little bit more engaging as I have to actively manage my drones to keep them alive. I do wish they would change missions even more, change things around from DT to DT, introduce new missions, take others away keep us mission runners on our toes... the one thing I hate most is being able to go onto a web site and read a detailed account of what the mission entails, how to tank it what damage type to dish out, who the triggers are... mix it all up CCP get my pulse going again when I warp into a mission not knowing what to expect!
Same! 100% Agree.
The number of times I saved the damsel. You have to wonder whether she is simply a hooker fibbing to daddy about how she got surrounded by men again. |

Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
522
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Posted - 2012.12.31 09:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nobody mentioned how it reflects PvP. That's the new CFC fleet doctrine. A Single Rail Gun Rokh with 5 ECM. |

Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
879
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Posted - 2012.12.31 09:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stopped me playing Eve.
If I cannot really solo lvl 4 (Navy Domi) missions to earn isk for pvp, I am jiggered really.
CCP shoud be more honest about the future of drones, and simply remove them from the game, rather than let them fade away slowly from lack of use. This is not a signature. |
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
237
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Posted - 2012.12.31 09:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
..because l4 are fun every other mission lvl to noob is boring only l4's are fun,OP you are full of it it bother you only you for your own little reasons il name random few:your alt is getting a hit,you bot have issues,your isk income is reduced,and then your nothing but l4 are boring noob come in last.
..how about because you are so care giving and good chap b uy that noob 5 mil cruiser to go and melt some frigs along you learn to die many times and how to bravwl,use prop mod recognize aggro and how to escape if possible instead bitching in here how you want easy mode back to "educate and show rops" to noobs.
Give us a brake and go farm n cry in some ugly corner of your eve existence. "it put ore down in can or it gets the hose again"
Leeloo Dallas Multipass - "Big bada boom"
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg |

Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
256
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Posted - 2012.12.31 10:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
now missions are really exciting
I can only watch my shields melt and drones vaporize. It keeps me concentrated, I curse a lot when I buy new drones at station. But it has never been as challenging ever before.
And I appreciate that NPC have courtesy of attacking random gankers, who enter my complex. It is only fair when unwelcome guests get equal treatment by NPCs.
Also, NPCs learnt to tank a lot better. They repair themselves at a steady rate.
So far, the only counter to TD - SENTRY drone Domi, SENTRY drone ISHTAR. Tried and tested, sentries get hate, but do not vaporize as bad as lights. |

Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
256
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 10:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:
Not true. Missions are now a little bit more engaging as I have to actively manage my drones to keep them alive. I do wish they would change missions even more, change things around from DT to DT, introduce new missions, take others away keep us mission runners on our toes... the one thing I hate most is being able to go onto a web site and read a detailed account of what the mission entails, how to tank it what damage type to dish out, who the triggers are... mix it all up CCP get my pulse going again when I warp into a mission not knowing what to expect!
Absolutely love this. CCP really needs to design random spawns, and maybe something similar to Bethesda's Radiant Quests, where quests can be generated and still be fun and differ every time you play. Every decent Strategy game can generate random combat maps and scenarios. I think CCP must be able to make mixed assortment of missions.
Also, new player can join older players in a simple overtanked BC, like drake, or dual rep myrmidon. At least they can tank the mission, while not dishing out a lot of damage. |

Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
525
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Posted - 2012.12.31 10:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
The notion that because a player new that also must mean he's a full-on moron is hilarious, condescending and quite wrong. Anyone with half a brain can understand the concept of npc AI changing targets so don't use it as an excuse to try to revert back changes lazy morons can't cope with. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |

Mizhir
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2153
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 10:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
As the experianced l4 mission runner it is your job to teach them to play the game rather than just having them tag along for free isk. If their cruiser didn't get shot at, they will never get a feel of the dangers.
So teach them how they can fit their ship to be able to tank the dmg of the cruisers and frigs, and teach them how to rangetank / kite. It is very unlikely that they will draw battleship aggro, so they wouldn't take full room aggro like you normally would.
Now it has actually become a team effort rather than having 1 person take the beating and then have the rest shoot whatever they want. The AI change is a step towards the right direction and hopefully they can make PVE in EVE fun and dynamic one day. If you are having Smurf problems I feel bad for you son I got 99 problems but a Blue aint one. |

Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 11:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Watching all you fanbois with your mops, try and white wash a CCP income nerf is almost worth it. |

Lexmana
784
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 11:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Flardowell wrote: New players
I think these changes hurt old settled in highsec carebear vets more than anything. New players will cope just fine. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3869

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Posted - 2012.12.31 12:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
The thread had a few trolls, which I have removed.
Forum Rules wrote:
4. Be respectful of others at all times.
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.
5. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a long-winded, redundant post, often filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
6. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing GÇ£in characterGÇ¥ disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.
7. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.
Posts were removed for breaking all the above rules. I'll leave this thread open as most of the discussion in it is calm and well thought out, but please remember the rules when you are posting, thank you - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.12.31 13:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Stopped me playing Eve.
If I cannot really solo lvl 4 (Navy Domi) missions to earn isk for pvp, I am jiggered really.
CCP shoud be more honest about the future of drones, and simply remove them from the game, rather than let them fade away slowly from lack of use.
If you dont know how to do missions with Domi ,than I just hope you are better in PVP.
Domi with MJD+sentries is simply great now with new AI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au0Fcnjrgis how hard is this ?As pvp player you check forums I guess to see changes in new meta ,or to adapt to it.What is problem to adapt on new AI changes?
New AI as much people call it bad ,gave them something that most of them dont say at all.When someone enter you missions space he will think about it cause he can take aggro too.I guess that is bad also ?
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Hedion's oracle
Shark Enterprises
19
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Posted - 2012.12.31 18:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
"Make missions more engageing" " Laughs" only thing the AI buff was intended to do is slow down isk generation, Forces missioners to buy moar plex, CCP gets moar money. thats all it is. best steath high sec nerf to date, CCP play this perfectly  Error: Working As intended |
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Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1950
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Posted - 2012.12.31 18:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
How to bring in newbs with your missions:
1) Kill all elite frigs and cruisers 2) call in newb
also make sure the newb has a semi decent tank and maybe try bringing a little logi, the logi itself should be enough reason that they ignore the newb altogether. The Drake is a Lie |

Fango Mango
University of Caille Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2012.12.31 18:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
What changed . . .
Basically nothing for the solo mission runner (maybe a bit for drone users but not that much).
For group content it changed significantly.
Specifically the high end PvE content designed for groups (L5 and the high end complexes). Wormholes and Incursions already have the "new ai" so this just brings the rest of PvE inline.
Before the changes (as I have often pointed out), you could tank any L5 mission or high end compex with an assault ship and a vexor throwing it some medium remote reps. You could run L5s with chars less than 3 weeks old with a fleet that costs less than 300 mil. I'm not sure that was CCPs original intent given that each mission pays out about 120 mil.
Today, every ship in your fleet needs to be able to tank around 2K dps. It means that you either need to fly a carrier OR use a decently skilled and set up sub cap fleet.
To soften the blow of these changes, CCP has made a couple of changes (secret or just bugs???) to some of the high end PvE content.
-FM |

Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1042
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Posted - 2012.12.31 18:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sweet Jesus, here we go again.
Hey, CCP, any way I can block entire threads based on a list of keywords or users?? Please? Huh, please?!?!?!
Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1635
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 18:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Flardowell wrote:So aside from the fact that its made killing things with drone nearly impossible, along with turrets and soon to be missiles when they can be affected by tracking disruptors, what was the biggest hit that the new AI changes have hurt?
New players
How you might ask?
Lets say someone is very new to the game, maybe has a cruiser with one or two lasers and is somewhat interested in this game (god knows why). Well, you're a l4 mission runner, or lets say you're a null-sec denizen and you managed to get them to join you. In the past, what would you have done? "Hey my newbro friend, why don't you come join me in this mission/sanctum. You can see what this will be like when you get bigger, milk a bit off of my bounties, salvage a few wrecks, and have a good time with me while we chill."
Your point: I do not grant it.
In most MMOs, this type of thing was called twinking or powerleveling - where more experienced or better-equipped players made life easier for the newbies.
Keeping that kind of gameplay is not essential, and tends to diminish the value of the content that is geared towards the newbies - like level 1 and 2 missions.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |

Kalanaja
Dog Nation United PNG Associates
17
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Posted - 2012.12.31 19:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3083
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 20:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kalanaja wrote:I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though. At least you can shoot through the rocks to kill them.
Annoying when they're really far away, though. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
561
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 21:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kalanaja wrote:I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though. Are they actually doing that now? I'm still seeing NPC's get stuck on mission structures. |

Kiandoshia
Gravien Enterprises Novus Dominatum
1358
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 21:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nothing is more interesting if you were not flying drone ships xD
I just swapped out all medium drones with light drones and continued as before. I really have no problems with NPCs killing my drones anymore. I lose maybe one or two in a few hours of running missions, which I guess is an improvement over the one or two a year.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Kalanaja wrote:I have no problems using drones in missions or elsewhere. Yes, the rats are smarter now. That's a good thing. It means they stop getting stuck on rocks, station chunks, gates and other things. Then twisting back and forth like they're having seizures. Still some work to be done to get that dynamic feeling going though. Are they actually doing that now? I'm still seeing NPC's get stuck on mission structures. I've really not noticed in gunboats the difference outside of one mission, even then it just meant letting frigs I couldn't hit with rails get close enough for drone recalls to be near instantaneous.
None of that is correct. NPCs are still stupid, still predictable and still boring to fight against. They still get stuck, they still spazz around.. the ONLY difference is, their small ships like to shoot at drones once in a while and their big stuff likes shooting cruisers and such (logis for example) once in a while.
The only way to make that bit challenging is by increase their damage output. At the moment all they are doing is splitting their damage, which makes them easier to deal with if anything. |

I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
307
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 00:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Use sentries in your drone boats on level 4s. Plus add a Large Micro Jump Drive. Kill the rats at range. New NPC AI rendered ineffective. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1301
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 00:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
From a nullsec players perspective the worst thing about the changes is Ewar like scrams/webs regardless of what ship they are used on greatly increase the chance of rat aggro switching to the PVP player. This is a general nerf to the small gang/roaming gang/solo pilots ability to kill in nullsec. |
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