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Ryzolette
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Posted - 2005.06.08 00:21:00 -
[1]
I'm a couple hours from minmitar assault frigs and I'm wondering the pros and cons of each. What can the Jaguar do that the Wolf can't and visa-versa?
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.06.08 00:31:00 -
[2]
The jaguar is slightly easier to fit and is faster but the wolf hits harder.
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2005.06.08 08:14:00 -
[3]
And the Jaguar can't do enough damage When Compared to other assault Frigs. But the extra mid slot comes in Handy.
Plus a Fully fitted Wolf Looks like an EVIL BEAST !
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.06.08 08:24:00 -
[4]
The jag can shield tank effectively. It also has a really cool camo paint job when you look closely.
I'll update you on the wolf, I get mine toady
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.06.08 10:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Grimpak on 08/06/2005 10:33:02
WTF? DOUBLE POST!
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Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.06.08 10:33:00 -
[6]
simply put:
jags are a "niche" ship: good speed, flexible and tough ships.
what they lack in firepower, they have in tracking. Can be applied to a multitude of roles (good heavy tackler/scout/ heavy frig popper). plus, it tends to be cheaper than the wolf (althou the equipment is another issue ) It is also pretty easy to setup
wolfs are less flexible, not as fast as the jag, but they are hard hitters and true to the minmatar way, they are made to flying with a full rack of guns (never used a wolf in such fashion, but people say that the 1-shot pop frig setup is pretty efective). it's not that easy to setup thou. CPU tends to limit the ship greatly.
both have the same problem wich is their natural weakness to kinetic damage, wether it be the shield tanked jag, or the armour tanked wolf.
in sum: if you want a more tactical ship, go for the jag.
if you prefer flying with the guns blazin', while dealing massive damage in a small package, go for the wolf.
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Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Fredbob
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Posted - 2005.06.08 11:30:00 -
[7]
I'm 2mins from Minnie AF, and have been checking them both out, getting opinions etc. Sounds like Wolf is shoot-shoot no brainer, and is the most popular choice. Jag I'm interested in for the 3rd mid-slot and a lil easier fitting... I will probably have to get both to avoid making a choice 
___________
~Fredbob~
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.09 14:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Stormfront
Against amarr assaults a shield tanked Jag with dmg mods can do very well.. for most other situations, the Wolf is a better solo ship IMO.
Why would you shield tank when minny's uber resists to amarr are on its armor? Hence, why use a jag when you could use a wolf?
This desk job has increased my forum whoring by about 300%. God help you all. |
Stormfront
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Posted - 2005.06.09 14:19:00 -
[9]
Against em/thermal.. the Minnie ships have great resistances both on shields and armor.
The Retribution tanks really well. And without some kind of dmg mods added a Wolf will not break its tank.
While both work well, I think the Jag is exceptionally well suited for this.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.06.09 14:22:00 -
[10]
Depends on what ammo your using but a long range wolf, has really crappy damage beyond it's single volley potential. And wolf really doesn't make a hot short ranger, too damn slow, jaguar however, is very nice and fast for a AF. Different fighting styles for em, like was mentioned.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.09 14:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gariuys
Depends on what ammo your using but a long range wolf, has really crappy damage beyond it's single volley potential. And wolf really doesn't make a hot short ranger, too damn slow, jaguar however, is very nice and fast for a AF. Different fighting styles for em, like was mentioned.
Not slow compared to the other assaults. Only the jag is faster, as has been stated. And a close range wolf will beat any other assault, though amarr might be a draw.
This desk job has increased my forum whoring by about 300%. God help you all. |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.06.09 15:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Gariuys
Depends on what ammo your using but a long range wolf, has really crappy damage beyond it's single volley potential. And wolf really doesn't make a hot short ranger, too damn slow, jaguar however, is very nice and fast for a AF. Different fighting styles for em, like was mentioned.
Not slow compared to the other assaults. Only the jag is faster, as has been stated. And a close range wolf will beat any other assault, though amarr might be a draw.
Exactly, but none of the other assaults make good short rangers IMO, enyo can be used as a reasonably fast damage dealer, etc. So not exactly saying they don't have a place as short rangers, but compaired to ships that are short rangers ( inties f.ex. ) they are most definetly lacking.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.09 15:43:00 -
[13]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 09/06/2005 15:43:50
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 09/06/2005 15:42:54
Originally by: Gariuys
Exactly, but none of the other assaults make good short rangers IMO, enyo can be used as a reasonably fast damage dealer, etc. So not exactly saying they don't have a place as short rangers, but compaired to ships that are short rangers ( inties f.ex. ) they are most definetly lacking.
Agreed. Overall IMO, all assaults suck compared to intys. Well, not "suck," but intys have so many more advantages compared to assaults, and less disadvantages.
Intys:
Faster
lower sig
comparable damage
costs less
Assaults:
comparable damage
better tank/hitpoints vs frigs
And assaults tanking ability only goes so far, they still get raped by bigger things setup for anti frig, and are more easilly hit by larger guns. I can kill intys just as easilly in another inty, for about 1/2 the cost of an assault, so its almost like whats the point  .
This desk job has increased my forum whoring by about 300%. God help you all. |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.06.09 15:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 09/06/2005 15:43:50
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 09/06/2005 15:42:54
Originally by: Gariuys
Exactly, but none of the other assaults make good short rangers IMO, enyo can be used as a reasonably fast damage dealer, etc. So not exactly saying they don't have a place as short rangers, but compaired to ships that are short rangers ( inties f.ex. ) they are most definetly lacking.
Agreed. Overall IMO, all assaults suck compared to intys. Well, not "suck," but intys have so many more advantages compared to assaults, and less disadvantages.
Intys:
Faster
lower sig
comparable damage
costs less
Assaults:
comparable damage
better tank/hitpoints vs frigs
And assaults tanking ability only goes so far, they still get raped by bigger things setup for anti frig, and are more easilly hit by larger guns. I can kill intys just as easilly in another inty, for about 1/2 the cost of an assault, so its almost like whats the point .
so true... now if intys wouldn't do that much damage, that would be another diferent issue.
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Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Shocky
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Posted - 2005.06.09 16:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Karmic
Originally by: Shocky
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
You'll live longer in a Jaguar, but you may not get as many AF kills.
Um how do you figure that? You'll live longer in a wolf, simply because you will kill everything you are supposed to kill faster. Assaults are anti-inty, and a wolf kills an inty in like a volley.
Unless your fighting a crow with tracking disruptor that orbits at 12k... then the wolfs pretty much fecked unless it takes it out before its in range... 
Target Painter II or PWNAGE should sort that little problem out.
Indeed
I'll have to try that.. you use both web and painter or just painter?
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.06.09 16:21:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gariuys on 09/06/2005 16:22:27
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Agreed. Overall IMO, all assaults suck compared to intys. Well, not "suck," but intys have so many more advantages compared to assaults, and less disadvantages.
Intys:
Faster
lower sig
comparable damage
costs less
Assaults:
comparable damage
better tank/hitpoints vs frigs
And assaults tanking ability only goes so far, they still get raped by bigger things setup for anti frig, and are more easilly hit by larger guns. I can kill intys just as easilly in another inty, for about 1/2 the cost of an assault, so its almost like whats the point .
Well I would disagree on the sucking part, but compaired to what interceptors did in terms of being a improvement over frigates, yes they're weaker. Interceptors are very powerful, and are in general better in anything then a ordinary frigate. Other tech 2 ships are different in that they have more drawbacks. Which is understandable really, you can't just keep on adding even more powerful ships. So basically we kinda agree. 
I must say though, I very much love all the assaults I can fly, all for different reasons, but as they serve a completely unique role. That can't be done by another ship, even t1 ships, not really. But how many roles can you come up with?
And you forgot superior range for the assaults, most get range bonuses, and got plenty grid to fit long range guns, and IIRC my long range enyo does 2/3 of the damage of my short range taranis, That's not bad for a 1000% increase in range ( or more )
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Mortuus
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Posted - 2005.06.09 22:54:00 -
[17]
Wolf with 3x gyro II and 280 II's breaks AF's in seconds...just need the right ammo for the job.
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.09 23:54:00 -
[18]
What would be the rof and damage modifier for 280 II with 3 dmg mods?
And what else can you fit with all that?
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.10 00:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
What would be the rof and damage modifier for 280 II with 3 dmg mods?
And what else can you fit with all that?
good damage mod, but you couldnt fit like anything, you have like 17 free cpu or something
This desk job has increased my forum whoring by about 300%. God help you all. |
Ryzolette
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Posted - 2005.06.10 01:18:00 -
[20]
Is the Jag fast enough that it can effectively use autocannons? Also without the skills to use t2 artys should I even bother with a wolf and just stick with T1 frigs until I can use t2 guns?
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.06.10 01:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Meridius on 10/06/2005 01:37:27
Edited by: Meridius on 10/06/2005 01:36:30
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Agreed. Overall IMO, all assaults suck compared to intys. Well, not "suck," but intys have so many more advantages compared to assaults, and less disadvantages.
Intys:
Faster
lower sig
comparable damage
costs less
Assaults:
comparable damage
better tank/hitpoints vs frigs
And assaults tanking ability only goes so far, they still get raped by bigger things setup for anti frig, and are more easilly hit by larger guns. I can kill intys just as easilly in another inty, for about 1/2 the cost of an assault, so its almost like whats the point .
Yep exactly but it's even worse.
Crusader compared to an Executioner on the left
Retribution compared to a Punisher on the right
Structure: 242% | 290%
Armor: 217% | 241%
Shield: 16% | 11%
Capacitor: 200% | 16% (sad ****)
Scan Resolution: 39% | 6.5% (pathetic)
Sensor Strength: 50% | 33%
Signature Radius: 32% smaller (inty lvl4) | 26%
Max Velocity: 30%
Powergrid: 60% | 32%
Negative Factors:
Mass: 5% | 36% greater mass
Max Velocity: For Retrib only, -4.1%
Look at the structure/armor/shield/capacitor increases, Interceptors are almost as tough as Assault Frigates relative to there base models(excluding resists ofc)
________________________________________________________
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BlackHawk177
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Posted - 2005.06.10 02:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
What would be the rof and damage modifier for 280 II with 3 dmg mods?
And what else can you fit with all that?
I get a 16.7x damage mod with surgical strike 4 and a 5.8?sec rof.
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
What would be the rof and damage modifier for 280 II with 3 dmg mods?
And what else can you fit with all that?
good damage mod, but you couldnt fit like anything, you have like 17 free cpu or something
That's why you put a co-pro on
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.06.10 15:03:00 -
[23]
I dont see the purpose of putting short range guns on an AF. You cant get close enough to interceptors to do the short range thing. And if they got sense they wont get close to you either. Short range AF is good for fighting other AF and cruisers I suppose and thats about it.
The minmatar AFs are quite heavy and heavier than any of the other minmatar frigates. Slow acceleration and orbit distance is bit wider.
Only frigates that can effectively wear short range guns is interceptors. Sure you can fit short range on a Jag, but I think then it would be overspecialized.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
BlackHawk177
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Posted - 2005.06.10 16:28:00 -
[24]
Short range on an AF is great for interceptors. Well those that are gonna fight you close range....a Taranis, AC Claw is gonna have to get in your face to hit you...and then you suprise the hell outta them with your AC or Blasters and rip them apart before they can warp. Basically the short range means you have to pick your fights a bit more carefully that's all.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.06.10 16:46:00 -
[25]
Short range af can be SWEEEET. Right away I can imagine a wolf with 4 nanofibers, autos, mwd and a web - this beast should turn in a dime and fry stuff before it can even warp out.
PS
Originally by: BlackHawk177
I get a 16.7x damage mod with surgical strike 4 and a 5.8?sec rof.
Just out of curiosity what damage mod and rof autos will have with that setup? Half a second rof or something?
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Stryker
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Posted - 2005.06.16 01:51:00 -
[26]
I get about 4.8X Dmg (1xGyroII/1xGyroI) and 1.61s RoF on my wolf. That's with 4x AC II. I could probably drop the tank and go with 3x GyroIIs and make it a cruiser popper. (With the 2x Gyros, I have to know what I'm up against to fight).
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