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Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
191
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Posted - 2013.01.01 07:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having to run from ratting tengus and drakes because the rats have switched to you is a terrible feeling.
I think CCP should change the aggression mechanics so that players attacking them take priority over others. I mean, how is attacking the ship that's killing the ship that's attacking you make any sense?
I think CCP should make it the mechanics work like this:
A drake warps into a belt and gains priority 2 aggression from the rats.
The drake attacks one of the rats granting it priority 1 aggression.
The drake gets it's drones out and attacks a frigate rat with them, the drones now have priority 1 aggression aswell, allowing NPC AI to switch in-between their desired targets.
A Cynabal enters the belt and attacks the Drake and gains priority 2 aggression from the rats.
The rats continue attacking the drake, as the drake has type 1 aggression.
The drake dies, the rats switch to the Cynabal as there are no priority 1 targets on field. |

Kestrix
Industrial Renaissance MinTek Conglomerate
50
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Posted - 2013.01.01 09:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
LOL Pvp'er chased off by mission rats...
You do realise that the rats switch to you because your the biggest threat. There is not a first come first served system in combat .
You are working off the philosophy that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and it's not true. Ether bring a ship with a bigger tank or choose another profession :)
Edit: Sorry thought I was in GD then... that's an interesting idea but I'll have to give this one the thumbs down. |

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
3769
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Posted - 2013.01.01 09:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems like the cynabal would be the sweeter kill with an inferior tank, so it could just as well be the primary target for any sensible NPC AI in that situation. Having NPCs switch targets in general also makes sense from a PvP perspective. If they don't do that, the game is making the situation of the already disadvantaged PVE fitted player practically impossible. It would amount to serving free kills to every PvP player who enters the field, since they only needed to tip the fight balance slightly to ensure the kill. The target switching just makes the initial circumstances somewhat equal for both parties. |

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
517
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 10:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
The NPC rats will chose to swap to the attacker every time though, due to their hate of EWAR (scram+web). The Tengu could have been in that site killing NPCs for half an hour, and the second you turn a scram on, the rats will swap to you.
This could maybe use some tweaking. Perhaps make scrams and webs, or even just long points immune to this kind of hate?
Can't hold your target down without a point. Using a point will guarantee you get agro 100% of the time.
Seems to actively discourage ganking. |

Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
191
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 11:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Seems like the cynabal would be the sweeter kill with an inferior tank, so it could just as well be the primary target for any sensible NPC AI in that situation. Having NPCs switch targets in general also makes sense from a PvP perspective. If they don't do that, the game is making the situation of the already disadvantaged PVE fitted player practically impossible. It would amount to serving free kills to every PvP player who enters the field, since they only needed to tip the fight balance slightly to ensure the kill. The target switching just makes the initial circumstances somewhat equal for both parties.
Do you know how NPC AI works? |

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 12:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Roderick Grey wrote:Having to run from ratting tengus and drakes because the rats have switched to you is a terrible feeling. LOL Imagine how the tengu/drake pilot used to feel getting jacked by both rats and some douchebag trying to kill them. Kinda evens the odds nowdays. What you should be asking for is a change to the missions and rats. Make missions require an omni-tank, make it so you have to fit a disruptor for NPCs otherwise they warp out when heavily damaged, etc. So both sides get an equal chance for rat aggro, and you can have a target that can theoretically pose a threat... 'Course that is about as likely to happen as CCP rolling back the new rat AI.
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Tiger Armani
Mialto Corp The Last Chancers.
20
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Posted - 2013.01.01 12:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
So gankers are crying about not able to handle NPC aggro. LOL
So, you think it is fair that mission tengu should tank NPC aggro and your dps?
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Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
191
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 14:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Roderick Grey wrote:Having to run from ratting tengus and drakes because the rats have switched to you is a terrible feeling. LOL Imagine how the tengu/drake pilot used to feel getting jacked by both rats and some douchebag trying to kill them. Kinda evens the odds nowdays. What you should be asking for is a change to the missions and rats. Make missions require an omni-tank, make it so you have to fit a disruptor for NPCs otherwise they warp out when heavily damaged, etc. So both sides get an equal chance for rat aggro, and you can have a target that can theoretically pose a threat... 'Course that is about as likely to happen as CCP rolling back the new rat AI.
I'm going to ignore this.
Tiger Armani wrote:So gankers are crying about not able to handle NPC aggro. LOL
So, you think it is fair that mission tengu should tank NPC aggro and your dps?
I'm not talking about missioning Tengus, I'm talking about nullsec.
But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player. |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
530
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Posted - 2013.01.01 16:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Paikis wrote:The NPC rats will chose to swap to the attacker every time though, due to their hate of EWAR (scram+web). The Tengu could have been in that site killing NPCs for half an hour, and the second you turn a scram on, the rats will swap to you.
This could maybe use some tweaking. Perhaps make scrams and webs, or even just long points immune to this kind of hate?
Can't hold your target down without a point. Using a point will guarantee you get agro 100% of the time.
Seems to actively discourage ganking.
Then stop using EWAR (scram+web), problem solved. Your opponent isn't, why are you? Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Tiger Armani
Mialto Corp The Last Chancers.
21
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Posted - 2013.01.01 18:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tiger Armani wrote:So gankers are crying about not able to handle NPC aggro. LOL
So, you think it is fair that mission tengu should tank NPC aggro and your dps?
I'm not talking about missioning Tengus, I'm talking about nullsec.
But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.[/quote]
Care to explain how it is not fair?
You both have to tank NPC dps and your enemies' dps. Fair and square.
Try to attack C5/C6 cap escalation pve players with 10 sleeper guardians. Come back after that. Live in WH for few years without local and sleeper NPC AI. After that LS and NS is easy peacy...
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Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
194
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Posted - 2013.01.02 04:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tiger Armani wrote:Quote: I'm not talking about missioning Tengus, I'm talking about nullsec.
But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.
Care to explain how it is not fair? You both have to tank NPC dps and your enemies' dps. Fair and square. Try to attack C5/C6 cap escalation pve players with 10 sleeper guardians at the site. Come back after that. Live in WH for few years without local and sleeper NPC AI. After that LS and NS is easy peacy...
I never said it wasn't fair, technically it is, except there's an extremely diminished risk/reward ratio.
The ratter only has to check local, intel, corp or alliance for me to be unable to catch him in the first place, why should rats assist him ontop of that?
Wormhole space isn't Nullsec, don't compare the two. |

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.02 04:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Roderick Grey wrote:...except there's an extremely diminished risk/reward ratio. Well "diminished" is a bit of an understatement when it was ALL reward and no risk previously. Seriously, before the AI change if you caught a ratter or missioner he was dead - end of story (unless it was a tarp). Now it's a bit more of a fight. You'll just have to bring a ship with a bit more tank of whatever version you fancy. Though as you already pointed out, these are people who are too stupid to align, watch local, and/or pay attention to intel, so really it shouldn't be THAT much trouble to kill them while tanking rats. Odds are they're not gonna be PvP geniuses.
In all honesty, I don't think you're gonna get alot of sympathy. Most of us have done our share of hunting ratters and recognize it was pretty effortless ganking. Granted if I still made that my hobby I'd probably be upset as well. Hell the Crimewatch changes messed up my favorite pastime. Not happy, but the changes do level the. Much like the new AI does. Just gotta adapt with the changes.
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Juan Thang
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2013.01.03 05:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
This is almost like me complaining about afk campers.... But you complaining that your ship designed to kill ships cannot, so please fit your ship better... This is the equivalent of saying I like ratting... can you make it so that the NPC's target the structures on grid before me? |

Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
195
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 08:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Roderick Grey wrote:...except there's an extremely diminished risk/reward ratio. Well "diminished" is a bit of an understatement when it was ALL reward and no risk previously. Seriously, before the AI change if you caught a ratter or missioner he was dead - end of story (unless it was a tarp). Now it's a bit more of a fight. You'll just have to bring a ship with a bit more tank of whatever version you fancy. Though as you already pointed out, these are people who are too stupid to align, watch local, and/or pay attention to intel, so really it shouldn't be THAT much trouble to kill them while tanking rats. Odds are they're not gonna be PvP geniuses. In all honesty, I don't think you're gonna get alot of sympathy. Most of us have done our share of hunting ratters and recognize it was pretty effortless ganking. Granted if I still made that my hobby I'd probably be upset as well. Hell the Crimewatch changes messed up my favorite pastime. Not happy, but the changes do level the. Much like the new AI does. Just gotta adapt with the changes.
How is it all risk no reward?
What is wrong with you? |

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 14:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roderick Grey wrote:How is it all risk no reward?
What is wrong with you? .... Okay. In addition to working on those basic ship fits and tanking skills, ya might wanna brush up on your reading comprehension as well. Just an idea. |

Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
169
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Posted - 2013.01.03 19:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
This thread has so much fail. From both sides. |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
536
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 19:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:This thread has so much fail. From both sides.
Nope, the fail originates from one side. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
196
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 22:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Roderick Grey wrote:How is it all risk no reward?
What is wrong with you? .... Okay. In addition to working on those basic ship fits and tanking skills, ya might wanna brush up on your reading comprehension as well. Just an idea.
I'm talking about from the ratter's POV you neanderthal. |

Aunt Tom
Dark Voodoo Cult The Gorgon Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.01.21 10:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
/signed
Now ratters in 0.0 space are very well protected by NPC. So NPC are guarding their killers :(
May be the better choice will be to apply current aggro-transfer mechanisms to the NPC-aggro (so that NPC won't chase ships which not attack them and not helping others to attack them?) |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2209
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 10:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nothing wrong with NPCs primarying e-war, just like players would.
Solo PvPers should adapt or go play hello-kitty online. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
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Aunt Tom
Dark Voodoo Cult The Gorgon Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.01.21 11:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Solo PvPers should adapt or go play hello-kitty online. Not a big problem, 'cource
But then we need a new back-story from CCP about NPC. I already have a name for it: 'Love to be killed' 
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2209
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Roderick Grey wrote:
But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.
And if your stupid enough to use e-war on a player who is engaging rats, your ass is fair game for NPCs.
Working as intended.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |

seth Hendar
I love you miners
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
while i don't agree with OP, i still think something is not working as intended with the new AI.
the aggro mechanics seems to work odd.
i ran a couple missions last weekend with a few friends (no one warped out in the following sequence).
1- legion warpin and take full agrro and stuf...
2- then a Macha warp in, instan full aggro even without aggressing (why not, after all at that moment it is the biggest DPS on field)
3- a drake warp in => instant full aggro (even if he didn't aggressed at all)
4- a myrmydon warp in, instant full aggro, same as the drake.
done 5 missions with different NPC rat (sanshas, angel, guristas, mercs), same behaviour 100%, no ewar involved at any moment.
from our point of view, it seems that whatever warps in, the last to warpin WILL take full aggro for at least 1 to 2 minutes, regardless of the "threat" it represent to the npcs.
after this delay passed, the ship drawing most of the aggro seems random, and not related to its tank or dps ability.
i'm not sure this is the behaviour intended |

Davader
Space Cleaners The Gorgon Empire
34
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Posted - 2013.01.21 11:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Agree with TS, CCP have to fix their fail with aggro switching. If a stealth bomber decloacks over ratting BS or BC, the NPC shouldn't all aggro on the bomber, leaving the carebear alone - that's definately wrong logic in aggro mechanics. |

Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
216
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 11:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Roderick Grey wrote:
But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.
And if your stupid enough to use e-war on a player who is engaging rats, your ass is fair game for NPCs. Working as intended.
So if I warp disrupt a playing who's aligning to warp out in his tengu I'm an idiot?
Your logic astounds me GÇ£We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.GÇ¥- Special needs division of Fcon. |

Roderick Grey
Assisted Genocide Black Legion.
218
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Posted - 2013.01.21 12:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Nothing wrong with NPCs primarying e-war, just like players would.
Solo PvPers should adapt or go play hello-kitty online.
See relating to the logic of a real player in your arguement is a moot case, because no player in his right mind would attack the player that's actually saving him from another regardless of ewar. GÇ£We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.GÇ¥- Special needs division of Fcon. |

Sinigr Shadowsong
War Tactical Groups SOLAR FLEET
37
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Posted - 2013.01.21 12:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Nothing wrong with NPCs primarying e-war, just like players would.
Solo PvPers should adapt or go play hello-kitty online.
Oblivious solo-farmers became even more protected in a game that supposed to punish for oscitancy. Lowering conseqences for being air-headed mindless farmer is the thing that moves Eve toward your lovely hello-kitty online. |

Bobbechk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
29
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Posted - 2013.01.21 13:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Nothing wrong with NPCs primarying e-war, just like players would.
Solo PvPers should adapt or go play hello-kitty online.
Sure lemme just fit this cyno and watch you cry about being dropped by a carrier instead |

Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
347
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Posted - 2013.01.21 14:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Roderick Grey wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Nothing wrong with NPCs primarying e-war, just like players would.
Solo PvPers should adapt or go play hello-kitty online. See relating to the logic of a real player in your arguement is a moot case, because no player in his right mind would attack the player that's actually saving him from another regardless of ewar.
That is not True, go on sisi, and try to use logistics help on someone, everyone will shot you, including the one that you are helping.
Also the rats will shot you because you are trying to steal their kill bounty ( over the player that they hope that they can kill)... Furthermore they think that they are as good as capsulers now.... so...
Change your profession... go mine in Hi-sec. Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2212
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Posted - 2013.01.21 15:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Roderick Grey wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Roderick Grey wrote:
But yeah, if the tengu pilot is too stupid to align and too stupid to check local, he should be fair game for another player.
And if your stupid enough to use e-war on a player who is engaging rats, your ass is fair game for NPCs. Working as intended. So if I warp disrupt a player who's aligning to warp out in his tengu I'm an idiot? Your logic astounds me
No, that would just set you up for a gank.
But if you do it in front of rats who your would be victim was engaging until he spotted you a few seconds prior... then your an idiot and those NPCs have just as much claim to your wreck as you do to your victims...
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
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