There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.

Did anyone around ever thought if this wasn't one of the reasons why null is as it stands?
Just asking, never thought about this in the large scheme of things, just like everyone else I expect awoxing cynos etc but would be interested to know the opinion of the older players about this, was null better and populated back then?

Its friday, so must be a 'Goons suck because they shoot everybody' day, tomorrow will be the 'Goons suck because they blue everybody' day.

So NRDS doesn't work and NBSI is boring, is that the general consensus then?

How?


We've spent considerable amounts of time and energy to take that space. Why should we just let neuts, which would predominantly consist of hostile people hellbent on making our ships blow up, "roam around"? How would that even remotely "bring nullsec out of the 'dark ages'"? What are these "dark ages"?

Is there a difference between "Not Blue Shoot It" and "Not Red Do Shoot"?

I did not find NPC nullsec so much NRDS tbh. It's way more NBSI than sov nullsec ever hopes to be.

So.forgive any randomness but I'm ill and full of cough medicine but I believe I have had an epiphany. Thereason that nbsinullseccers are so anti social is so they can make isk in safety so they can pvp. The reason they want highsec nerved is so that they are the only ones with this advantage having worked for it.
If they want hIgh sec income nerved then in the interest of games balance they should run a more open and welcoming system.
But eve was never designed to be balanced so people should ALL htfu and do whatever makes the game fun for them if they can

It's the current meme and "program". Look at the Gospel blog for anticipations about the next, exciting news!

With all the zillions some alliances have pouring off their asses they could afford paying people to act as player "Concord" and enforce neutrality in *one* system, that would quickly become a safe haven island. Coupled with CCP buffing null industry, that system would become an alternate true Jita. There are a lot of people including me who couldn't wait to ferry their goods over there, if they knew they'd not get insta-popped just for *thinking* cynoing in there.

1) I know it's an huge effort. So? Are you there to do the never dared before and create a real empire? That is something never done before (assuming CCP will also buff industry etc. etc. in the meanwhile). Something bold, that is the first completely player driven and wanted totally sandbox civilization, in a pure PvP location with no "safety" rules at all?
Maybe I am too optimistic and enthusiastic about it, but *that* would be worth and would be remembered through the years.


2) "Service that hi sec gets for free" is only true thinking in *today* terms. Since in order to even start believing at doing the whole project, CCP needs first to do what's needed (no need to repeat it), then the deal will be way more "equal".
If they will do the buffs then you won't HAVE to import anything special from hi sec, actually you'll have stuff that hi sec WILL have to import from you.

It's not supposed to be dependent.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/nullsec-board-for-blog.jpg

Safe flying o/

I think it means we should import 99% of everything we use (by volume) from hisec.

Pardon? I can't keep regurgitating the nonsense spewed out over and over by someone who only quotes part of an answer to a question previously asked.

I'm still here, and will answer any question that warrants a response.

Whereas I don't see how I'm thoroughly "owned" since I'm not the one asking to reinvent the wheel, and life is still going on "business as usual".

If you really want to make a difference for me, or think I should consider it, pay my bills. Otherwise, you won't really matter once I clock out and go home =)

"Nullsec isn't supposed to be independent of hisec. Why else has it been dependent on hisec for 10 years?"

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=946
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/nullsec-board-for-blog.jpg

Of course ccp will change things, don't be an idiot.

Ok so, let's look at the blog you posted. It goes on about a "perfect world" which we know doesn't exist...

No, they don't say how it was meant to be, they say it's what they want.

There is a big difference.

There does exist this concept of "talking to someone's diplos" before derping into their space like joe random chucklefuck.

NRDS works fine so long as the corp and alliance management properly sets statuses on a regular basis.

NRDS will leave you with a lot more reds than blues and neutrals but also gives the benefit of the doubt to the neutrals travelling through space. The moment they make an act of aggression, they are red flagged by the alliance or corp and are no longer welcome in that space. This adds a little more danger and unknown to watching neutrals in local but it allows those neutrals to travel in said space as well as transport goods and sell which improves the economy in the region.

NBSI works exactly the opposite. Since you don't really have to worry about not shooting the neutrals then you end up with less reds to manage for the alliance and corps but this also means that most people don't want to come into your space unless they are looking for a fight and nobody is going to bother trying to sell in your space so your economy in that region suffers.

It all comes down to the mindset of the people in that region. Frankly I like the way CVA manages their space...I just don't like dealing with all the RP crap they are known for.

"You just want hisec in nullsec! Lazypants!"

Entitled, you say?

Then null players should stop crying about no industry in null when their play styles kill it.

How does that saying go? If your not willing to fight for something, you dont deserve to keep or have it in the first place.

You are cherry picking your argument based on situations that seldom play out.

So you don't actually have any idea what you're talking about? Figured as much.

Please tell me more about how POSes are supposed to be the backbone of industry in 0.0 with the ~5 slots offered by individual assembly arrays, and the added cost of running a POS

Oh and did I mention that there is no difference in the usage cost of a manufacturing slot in Jita and that of a manufacturing slot in the most deserted hisec island system?

Minutes? Fah, seconds even!

Yeah, about two months ago I put 2700 T1 cruisers in build in Ansila, two jumps from Jita. I found 10 immediately available station slots for them and finding them was the worst nightmare ever. ~~~~~~o7 brave hisec industrial capsuleers~~~~~~

Oh and it cost over two million ISK to put that 12bn of cruisers into build. How hideously expensive.

I'm not doing the math for you, silly Goon. Doesn't Goonhorde have an accounting department? (I'm not an alt, BTW.)


I don't think anyone is really opposed to it on the grounds that it is wrong. One might even question whether one can DO something that is immorally wrong in a video game, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or to a non-sentient lifeform, or in Vegas.

I think the question is whether or not the NBSI policy is contributing to or hurting the success of organizations that have adopted it.


You certainly seem to think you're entitled to an industrial base and markets that are as good as high sec. You seem to think you are entitled to more people trafficking through your space despite trying to blow a good portion of them up for no good reason, based exclusively on a blanket suspicion. You seem to think you are entitled to your "own" space based on your capacity to muster force to shoot stationary objects. You seem to think you are entitled to the best resources in the game, since you so willingly take them from others even though you won't be able to utilize them effectively yourself.

I said you "bully" people out of space. Some of you seem to object to the term, but I would suggest you consult a dictionary.

You don't know how to use the space. It's that simple. NBSI is the policy you used to take the space, but taking space is not the same as having and using space. I can beat a mathematician up and take his calculator. That doesn't mean I can solve an equation. Similarly, you can muster a swarm of goons to take Delve or Providence or where ever. That doesn't mean you can make it into an empire. The last laugh is had by the people in high sec, who despite having access to mostly lower end resources (and, seriously, when is the last time a level 4 mission dropped a deadspace module or yielded LPs to buy a pirate battleship) have managed to create so much that your goons have to come slinking back to high sec every time they need another ship or more ISK to fund their "pew pew". If your NBSI policy works so well, you shouldn't need to come to high or low sec at all. In fact, it should be us who are bitching and moaning about not having belts full of zydrine and megacyte yielding ores and not having Hubs and Havens and Sanctums out the yin yang to run while we ***** and moan about the lack of noobs and miners to gank. If you think your NBSI policy has made null into a veritable utopia versus the horrid, tyrannical NRDS of high sec, enforced by the supposedly all-seeing, infallible, and invincible CONCORD, then stay the **** out of high sec.

See you in Jita!

lol skydell you're really going to have to take it to the next level if you're going to top that post

Of course I do. Why do you think I don't live there?

wait wait wait

did you just say "nullsec has hubs, havens and sanctums, there is therefore no problem with nullsec industry"

because wow

It already is.

Oh, I don't know...

Good thing that I'm not doing that then, and that I'm instead leaving out the irrelevant nonsense and keeping the (incorrect) points that you base your (equally incorrect) argument on.

So you agree then: the current industry mechanisms for sov space are as fundamentally broken as missions would be of it cost you money to run them (and that's before we even get into the utterly idiotic design of having player-run space provide less player freedom than NPC-run space). Oh, and no, sov is not an ISK faucet. Quite the opposite, in fact.

You still don't get it. You still focus on this poorly calculated notion you have of profits. It's about production capacity and capability, which is needed to have more ships to throw at the enemy, and which is so poorly developed that it is better in every single way to produce everything you can a jump or two away from Jita and then burn freighter fuel to get it to the end user, rather than to produce it locally. These ware as not made to profit from: they are made to be destroyed.

Any time you guys feel it is too much of a burden to run your DotLan empire, feel free to pack it up and move to High Sec.

Shill or an RMT client. Or trained by one to win EVE. You forgot, didn't read or parsed that one out a page ago.

I've said it already. It's too easy for you guys to regulate the player content now. What you ask for cements status Quo. It stagnates EVE and the only purpose it serves is to put EVE at risk of being an even bigger RMT haven. I can't compete with Null sec now. What you want simply fortifies your unbreakable position as the Over Lords of EVE. That isn't good for EVE.

Obviously, NBSI is excellent for taking and holding territory, but lacking in providing the required environment for the scale of industry you covet from other areas.

it is quite obvious that a small number of committed industrial players could easily supercede your 'single system better than region' retterick.

You refuse to see the error in your thinking.

I know like most Vets know, being in a Null Alliance translates to being a foot soldier. You won't be allowed to be an Industrial mogul. You will be allowed to server them and make a bit of ISK ratting or something. Null alliances covet their Industrial contracts and keep them under the control of a very select few.

I know like most Vets know, all alliances in EVE come crashing down. When they do, that select group who control them walk away with untold fortunes and the foot soldiers head back to high sec wondering how they are no better off than they were when they started, Wondering why they were never allowed in the door.

Its a pyramid scam. It worked for 10 years. Let it go.

I watch Jita Markets.

Null is NOT being supplied by Jita markets. Jita Markets are being supplied by Null.

If Null stopped feeding Jita it would turn in to a flee market. I don't think you are asking to control your own Alliance and their ability to fleet. I think you are asking to project your control on to High Sec and dictate what they will fly, how much it will cost and when they will get it by controlling Industry.

You want control of EVE. CCP won't give it to you. I see why.

Fact
EVE is an MMO that have a lot of people in it.

Fact
People never change

Fact
When people become this adversarial they are hiding something.

Fact
People always have a motive.

What about cap components? Subcaps? Modules? Ammo? T2 components? POS fuel? Drones? Fighters? Fighter bombers?

station components, POS towers, POS mods

It's like you aren't telling us something.

Once again the reply off somebody who talks like they are in the last, poorest alliance in game, with everything hammering them, barely breathing above the water's surface, shouting their last agony shriek before going down.

Why is it 90% of EVE content is too much trouble for your Alliance to be arsed with?
Why is it you feel it is easier to game the system than play the game?
Why is it Null Sec alliances before you hauled POS fuel in from high sec seeds with less complaining than you do now because your production doesn't compete with Jita? The place you pretend to hate so bad?

Why is you let your minions shitpost for 4 hrs on GD when they could be running an Industrial Ops in Null?

But since I admired Malcanis 1.0 (the former independent thinker, the one with the smart Law written on the signature), I'll put a tiny grain of sand in the fat vag... table. .

this thread doesn't stop giving, looool

I was thinking just that.
With risk comes reward, no?
The reward of telling the Ice bots to sod off, the reward of knowing you have 4000 Home made Taloe, fully fitted sitting in your Outpost if someone shows up to contest you.

Not good enough though is it?
You want the ISK pile.

Ulterior motives. Hmmm

malcanis you were an independent thinker until you disagreed with vaerah

you used to be cool

Not surprised you did not make past the first lines.

Many of you don't even live in null. You're carebears, by your own admission. You do industry in high sec. You mission in high sec. You trade in high sec. You do a good portion of your logistics in high sec. Just because you're hiding behind an alt doesn't mean you're not benefiting from the very same CONCORD-enforced NRDS status you are at the same time decrying...

I agree 100% and yet here the super rich alliances are allowing ISK to dictate their industrial Policy. Allowing Jita ISK sheets to say they shouldn't run industrial in Null because it isn't profitable. Even with their half trillion a month moon goo basket, the Mighty goons pinch pennies in Jita rather than just online 200 POS and make their own stuffs.

Stunning and amazing.

I dunno, that's what the game gave you to manufacture with in Null?
That's right, it isn't about defying the odds, its about crying on the forums untill they are in your favor.

I spent the last 6 hrs mining Jaspet, throwing rock at you guys. It isn't like I had anything else to do. What did you do?

I still have some stuff in nullsec , you can even go find screenshots on these forums with some google.

But hey, what do I know, that putting potential for income in all the 0.0 systems would surely bring in more conflict. Because having all good in a similar way (because that's what happens if you buff places with similar infrastructures) makes people want to fight for similarly good other nearby sytems...

(Edit: this is not to say industry should not be buffed, just that putting some generic "more income sources" is not a conflict driver, if anything it drives will to fight over the good stuff less intense).