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What is Honour in war ?

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Galaxion	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:12:00 - [31] I would say GNW = ooh..... dishonorable beyond belief The last war FIX were in (was it BOB?)..... seemed to be very honourable. Read posts from those two events and thats my idea of honour, it's about mutual respect ----------------------------------------- Everlasting Vendetta PVP Commander, yarr
Robotek Hybrid	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:17:00 - [32] I agree with the EVOL feller. Anything that aint an exploit is fine. --------------------------------------------
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:27:00 - [33] Honor schmoner.. KILL EM ALL!!!
Krapz	Posted - 2005.06.14 15:34:00 - [34] Edited by: Krapz on 14/06/2005 15:36:10 OK, I think there is a line that should kinda be drawn, because in this "new age" of Eve, I firmly believe it does indeed exist. Just because you get the evemail that says "Celestial Horizon has declared war on blah blah blah... (etc)" does NOT necessarily mean that it's any sort of spite. There IS a BIG difference between a personal all out war, and a simple fun "we want to blow you up, we hope you feel the same way" sort of war. If it's not a personal sort of dig on someone, then honor probably comes in different flavors. I don't think you can any longer draw a line in the sand and say "this is good, this is bad." It's all bias and preferential at this point, in my biased opinion of course Logging in combat is lame across the board, we could all agree on that I'm sure, but if CCP does nothing to change it, then bah. Wouldn't it just be funny if everyone started doing it, just to hammer the point home? Logging off due to superior numbers? How about flaming someone else for "blobbing" just because your little group bit off more than it could chew? Both are fairly lame IMO. What's more lame though, is that when the superior force separates it's forces, or intentionally holds back it's full force, just to get a more-fair engagement, and then get's FRAPS'ed and flamed for getting "pwned". Now THAT is another lame thing. Corp spies? Lame altgether. Only proves how inferior your own intelligence is. A true mark of a pathetic organization IMO. Corp theft? Totally and utterly lame. It destroys the game itself IMO, because there is currently no way in which to exact revenge or even track the indivisual. At least PvP offers an option of revenge. The point is, if it were a true "all out end-them" type of war, then you would probably see all of these tactics employed. If it were just a "war" as in bang-bang shoot-em-up, then just go enjoy the PvP and stfu. I guess that about covers it for me... -- Insert cool graphics sig here --
Dime	Posted - 2005.06.14 18:58:00 - [35] HONOR CAN I REPEAT ITS SPELLED HONOR.
Phoenicia	Posted - 2005.06.14 20:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Dime HONOR CAN I REPEAT ITS SPELLED HONOR. Honour is also when you appreciate that one of both is the original english term and the other is the slightly perverted yank term. I just cant remember which one's which ---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--- CCP deleted my sig pic cause it was 50 pixels too wide and all I got was this lousy text.
Lowa	Posted - 2005.06.14 20:44:00 - [37] Dont be an ass! (No offence -ASS- ) Face your destiny! Remeber its a game! Stick by that and everything else should sort it self out. Works for me. Cheers, LOWA Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby!
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2005.06.14 21:12:00 - [38] Honor,not smack talking in local,not podding during a 1v1,up holding 1v1's,scamming,stealing or manipulating people. Dishonor=Fragm undisputed lord of the forums Im older then I look
Skelator	Posted - 2005.06.14 21:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/06/2005 10:20:23 The only honour I care about in war is not logging off in combat. Other then that, everything thats not an exploit and does not involve out of game h4xzoring etc is fair play imo. Sure, some things will get you respect and some will get you laughed at. But honour has no place in war, sign up for a sport if you want honour. ROD (Gasp)..Heheh I will tell yab this if a Stronghold Pilot gives his word to someone to score a cheap Kill or trick them in any way then he is not a Stronghold Pilot anymore. Some corps were built on honor and Stronghold is one of those .. so Honor is not truly dead in the game as long as we are still flying.. They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Domalais	Posted - 2005.06.15 01:01:00 - [40] -Keep your word -Don't backstab your allies. If you must attack an ally, give 24 hours notice. -No smacktalk -Act with dignity (If there is no empire war, do not harass or interfere with your enemy's empire operations with bumping, etc.)
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.06.15 02:25:00 - [41] Edited by: FalloutBoy on 15/06/2005 02:27:16 honor in war is irrelevent. do whatever it takes to win although I generaly frown on expolitish tactics,
Spiff Jones	Posted - 2005.06.15 02:42:00 - [42] Edited by: Spiff Jones on 15/06/2005 02:44:59 Originally by: Takrolimus Honour is Fighting whenever there is a reasonable chance (30% +) of winning. Honour is never running from even numbers, even if they have a stronger position (unless of course the server is on its last legs as it often is on a Sunday night, in which case you might as well just log). Honour is not waiting 2 hours for 4:1 odds when G you havd 2:1 odds to start with, and then not smacking in local at how the outnumbered force has logged off instead of fighting double numbers from two directions. omgyoustolemycandywheniwas2ipetitionyoufornotdoingexactlywhatiwantallthetimeespecially20yearsago!! honour is treating your opponents with respect, keeping your word, and remembering that this is a game. and yes, there is definately still honour in this game, and i applaud those that recongnize it. cheers! spiffeh new sig coming soon...
Leno	Posted - 2005.06.15 03:09:00 - [43] Originally by: Spiff Jones ...honour... Thats it I'm calling your parents and we're gonna make a proper amiercan out of you --------------- RIP - Smoske, My Friend Coasterbrian > babies are good, especially raw Coasterbrian > soft and crunchy at the same time
Uther Agnoius	Posted - 2005.06.15 03:49:00 - [44] Black Nova Honor is when one of our noobs while in a gang tells a visible hostile he wont be harmed if he jumps into 0.0 from empire with a gang of 20 watching him do it.....(trying to trick him). If BNC for whatever reason says you wont be harmed, you will not. Not podding, or being mercifull is not a gesture of honor. Honor is about honoring your words with actions. Also if you tell someone you are going to kill them or destroy their alliance you had better do it. I also think smack BEFORE a fight is "honorable", boasting or saying I'm gonna kill you all is fine. Once it's said and done, you should not gloat nor cry about your win or loss. At least in public or to your vanquished enemy ;).
Skelator	Posted - 2005.06.15 04:04:00 - [45] Edited by: Skelator on 15/06/2005 04:05:46 This is kind of Cool and what I hope Stronghold Roleplay Adheres to. I myself think Technology took Honor and chivalry off the battlefields of modern times. A KNIGHT IS TRUE TO HIMSELF.....AND AT PEACE WITH HIS GOD! AS A RESULT HE IS HONEST & JUST IN ALL BUSINESS AND PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS! A KNIGHT CAN BE TRUSTED FOR HE HONORS HIS WORD! HE WILL DO WHAT HE COMMITTED TO DO.....WHEN HE COMMITTED TO DO IT, OR MAKE OTHER ARRANGEMENTS.....OR DIE IN THE PROCESS! A KNIGHT THINKS BEFORE HE SPEAKS, FOR ONCE HIS WORDS ARE SPOKEN ......HE IS BOUND BY HIS WORDS! A KNIGHT USES WISDOM AND DISCRETION IN HIS WORDS AND ACTIONS, AND IS CONSIDERATE AND COMPASSIONATE IN ALL HIS DEEDS! A KNIGHT TAKES DAILY ACTION TO FORTIFY AND STRENGTHEN HIS BODY, HIS MIND, AND HIS SPIRIT! A KNIGHT IS CONFIDENT, FOR HE HAS OVERCOME HIS ARROGANCE. AN ARROGANT MAN THINKS HEÆS GRANDàà A CONFIDENT MAN IS GRAND! A KNIGHT IS STRONGà..YET GENTLE WITH WOMEN AND CHILDREN. HE USES HIS MIGHT TO DEFEND THE WEAK! A KNIGHT ACTIVATES HIS BRAIN BEFORE HE USES HIS BRAWN WHEN FACED WITH A CHALLENGE OR AN OPPONENT! A KNIGHT HAS A LIGHT HEART AND A SENSE OF HUMOR! HE CAN MAKE EVEN THE MOST GRUELING TASK FUN AND MEMORABLE! A KNIGHT HAS DISCERNMENT TO KNOW WHEN A JOKE IS DESTRUCTIVE, .....AND IS WILLING TO TAKE A STAND WHEN A JOKE IS DAMAGING! A KNIGHT HONORS AND RESPECTS HIS PROCREATIVE POWERS, AND ALWAYS TAKES RESPONSIBILITY WHEN HE USES THOSE POWERS! A KNIGHT HONORS AND REVERES WOMEN AND THEIR FEMININE NATURE. A KNIGHT KNOWS THAT PROPER INTERACTION WITH THIS FEMININE POWER IS ONE OF HIS LINKS BACK TO SOURCE, THEREFORE HE READILY AND WILLINGLY IS PREPARED TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THAT POWER EVEN UNTO DEATH! A KNIGHT USES GRACE AND DIGNITY IN WORDS AND ACTIONS, ESPECIALLY IN THE COMPANY OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN! A KNIGHT HAS A DEEP AND PASSIONATE LOVE, HONOR AND RESPECT FOR NATURE AND MOTHER EARTH. A KNIGHT HAS THE STRENGTH AND COURAGE TO ACT WHEN THEY ARE BEING VIOLATED! They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2005.06.15 06:14:00 - [46] un5een and DrunkenOne pretty much sum it up collectively. It's not so much what you do that makes you honorable, it's what you refrain from doing. Oh, and to the folks who say the GNW wasn't honorable: there were both honorable and dishonorable pilots on all sides of that war, but I was pleasantly surprised at the number of what I'd consider honorable foes I fought. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense
Shariona	Posted - 2005.06.15 10:53:00 - [47] When fighting Light Darkness and his Stain fleet in the Stain war we has a gentelman agrement to not try to pod eachother in battle an let the pods leave the system. It worked great until some Stain guys podded some of us whil we are moving out in pods We talked with Light Darkness about it and we solved it. Think thats Honour in war If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him -- Sun Tzu
Rick Dentill	Posted - 2005.06.15 15:40:00 - [48] "Honour is the word that men hide behind to disguise their failings." sorry not much help that _______ Save me Jebus! http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/dd.php
Trey Azagthoth	Posted - 2005.06.15 20:29:00 - [49] There is no honor, only victory. All is fair in love and war.
Crewmen Redshirt	Posted - 2005.06.15 21:58:00 - [50] I don't think smack is that dishonorable. Many soldiers and officers exchanged insults before, during and after battle and often they were allies
Jaisan	Posted - 2005.06.15 22:27:00 - [51] Dishonour is using out of game tactics to gain advantage. Like planting spies on an enemies TS comms, ****ing IP's to crash machines in battle, using GM's to plant people in alliance ingame channels etc etc. Hello [5] Just too orangey for crows.*
Trey Azagthoth	Posted - 2005.06.15 22:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Jaisan Dishonour is using out of game tactics to gain advantage. Like planting spies on an enemies TS comms, *****ing IP's to crash machines in battle, using GM's to plant people in alliance ingame channels etc etc. Hello [5] Sorry bud, but I would consider planting spies in other corps etc. just plain smart, its called tactics.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.06.16 03:25:00 - [53] Edited by: Lorth on 16/06/2005 03:25:00 Originally by: Jaisan Dishonour is using out of game tactics to gain advantage. Like planting spies on an enemies TS comms, *****ing IP's to crash machines in battle, using GM's to plant people in alliance ingame channels etc etc. Hello [5] Yes phear the five. For we have the super secret IP-WTFPNW'r. A device so uber, it can crash other peoples machines through teamspeak. Not only that, our pilots are so skilled we can code while commanding fleets. Then theres the ultra GM-SPLOIT tactic, were the GM's spawn enemy battle ships one at a time in front of our fleet. As well as relaying us allience chat from the opposision. Wait untill next patch. TomB has coded a 5-JUMP drive used only by the 5, and able to teleport fleets were ever we so desire. Watch out for the, Tholarim's modified tachoyon, Chowdowns modified shield booster, and the feared thelung187's modified flame thrower.
Konietzko	Posted - 2005.06.16 03:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Lorth and the feared thelung187's modified flame thrower. ohh i have one of those on sisi, it's modeled after the cover of Mein Kampf. --- Konietzko [botox bandits]
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.06.16 03:39:00 - [55] Damnit Lorth, why don't ya just give away the name of the guy responsible now.. namely me. Yes, I used my uber hax0r skillz in BBC BASIC programming. 10 Start 20 HAX TEH TS 30 GOTO 20 40 END PWNT!!
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.06.16 03:53:00 - [56] Originally by: Lorth Edited by: Lorth on 16/06/2005 03:45:37 Originally by: Jaisan Dishonour is using out of game tactics to gain advantage. Like planting spies on an enemies TS comms, *****ing IP's to crash machines in battle, using GM's to plant people in alliance ingame channels etc etc. Hello [5] Yes phear the five. For we have the super secret IP-WTFPNW'r (lowslot item). A device so uber, it can crash other peoples machines through teamspeak. Not only that, our pilots are so skilled we can code while commanding fleets. Then theres the ultra GM-SPLOIT tactic, were the GM's spawn enemy battle ships one at a time in front of our fleet. As well as relaying us allience chat from the opposision. Wait untill next patch. TomB has coded a 5-JUMP drive used only by the 5, and able to teleport fleets were ever we so desire. Watch out for the, Tholarim's modified tachoyon, Chowdowns modified shield booster, and the feared thelung187's modified flame thrower. You forgot about drunk's modified basic damage control. Oh and yes, it is a little known fact that there are no such thing as GMs, as they are all actually my alts. Someone make me a sig :(
Aitrus	Posted - 2005.06.16 06:44:00 - [57] Originally by: Rod Blaine If I'd consider one more thing dishonourable then that would be fighting because of the the fight, and not because of the goal. Thats not something you'll hear very often around here. (and I agree fully)
Hoozin	Posted - 2005.06.16 07:54:00 - [58] Honor (or honour for those of you that can't spell right) is a word that gets used all too often imo. It's mostly used in the context of calling somebody dishonorable or "without honor" like we're all 18th century Japanese samurai living by a code of conduct and we should commit suicide when somebody tells us that we have lost all honor in their eyes. It's incredibly stupid imo. For the purpose of this discussion, the only things that truely ** me off are exploits (logoff, logon traps, stuff like that). The rest of it? So what if they don't want to fight even though they have more. If it's a solid tactic (though boring), who the @#$% cares? I mean, everytime that we declare a new war, the rumors are always flying that "Hey, these guys are PVPers, we should get some nice fights." or "Hey, this war should serve up a lot of targets." and then the declaration goes through and you can't find 2 of them to shake a stick at and meanwhile you can't swing a dead baby and not hit 3 gangmates. You bet your ass we're ***ing about it, but what can you do? Not fighting is a very good tactic for avoiding losses and no matter what anybody says, there's no dishonor (again, really hate that word, but for this discussion...) in using solid tactics. I tend to agree with a lot of stuff that other people have said here. P.S. If you are getting ganked by a frig fleet and you can't do a damn thing about it, just turn off the monitor and walk away - logging off in combat is just gonna get too many people overly worked up (UDIE comes to mind) and you won't be able to get away with it after the next patch. --------------------------------- The forums are so much smoother if you just don't read any posts by [UDIE]. More specifically Shin Ra's.
Joram McRory	Posted - 2005.06.16 09:29:00 - [59] A lot of people are posting "WTF is Honour anyway" "what revavance does honour have" etc. An to me this is exactly the point, and what makes honour unusual. Lets make up some numbers to ilustrate this. 10% Pilots are Honourable 80% Pilots just play by the rules & don't care one way or the other 10% Pilots are dishonourable Which is just what one would expect. I maintain that honour is all about giving up some tactical advantage to your opposition, eg logging a few off to get an even fight. many people would say "why would ever you want to do that?" The reason would be that your personal ethics demand that you try to even things out. This is not 'right' or 'better' than any other approach but is is honourable. You won't see it often, but when you do you will know it for honour (or stupidity some might say). At the other end of the scale is dishonour: Arranging a 1 v 1 then bringing 3 ships in, saying you will let someone pass then ganking them etc. Hopefully you won't see that ofter either, but you will know when you encounter it. And to be totally clear, from a game perspective none of the above are right or wrong IMO, we can do what we like in game. But in Eve, as in RL, it is your actions that will shape peoples opinions of you.
Fitz Chivalry	Posted - 2005.06.16 11:42:00 - [60] So much of what goes on in game is a reflection of how people are in real life (or how people would be in real life if they were not bothered about the consequences) - which is pretty frightening when you look around EVE :) Some people like to win no matter what the cost, even if that means cheating with log-off or log-on tactics, having alts in enemy corps feeding information etc. Others, and I would include myself here, would rather play it fair - i.e. not exploit game mechanics to win. I would never want to be part of a corp or gang that was engaging in such tactics. People might say - ah well those "exploits" are just smart tactics, do what it takes to win etc. - but I personally feel that they are forgetting that this is a GAME (I know this will come as a shock to many) and as with all games - yes, you can cheat and win but I think that most people would agree that there is far less satisfaction in doing so (unless they choose to delude themselves that they are really ub3r by being able to exploit the mechanics and they are just doing whatever it takes etc). If I was genuinely in a war then I would do whatever it takes a screw the honor etc but this is not RL this is a game and in the game I like to play as if things were the way that I wish they were rather than the way that they really are.

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