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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.09 22:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
How about they just make all minerals available everywhere, and just change the yields between High, Low, Null?
So for instance -
HighSec would have unnamed basics - Veldspar, Scordite, Plagioclase, Omber, Kernite, and Pyroxeres. It would also have Gravimetric sites which spawned at an average of 1 per system per x amount of days (don't want to make it too easy nor too hard) that contained medium and higher end ores; Hedbergite, Gneiss, and small ABC rocks mixed in. This would make Megacyte and Zydrine available to Empire space. Save for Technetium (which is a problem I won't even get into in this post), Empire would become independent from NullSec.
LowSec would have the 5% basics, and medium ends would appear in belts (I would also suggest that medium ends start appearing as early as 0.4 - right now there's no point in mining in a 0.4 system because they only have basics). Higher end ores would appear in Gravimetric sites. (There could also be additional benefits for performing Industrial activities in LowSec, however, I will not address that in this post, either).
NullSec would have the 10% basics, the mediums, and higher end ABCs would appear in belts. Mining in NullSec would be more lucrative and attractive to higher skilled Indy pilots. In addition to NullSec Indy buffs that have been suggested elsewhere, NullSec could begin to operate independently of HiSec, and have it's own markets that don't rely on jumping things in from Jita.
This would increase quality of life for all people involved; NullSec would be happier with a beefier, more efficient Industry, and the distribution of resources would just make more sense. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1917
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Posted - 2013.01.10 00:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Moving this from Science & Industry to Features and Ideas. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
937
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Posted - 2013.01.10 00:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nullsec industry does not need to be nerfed. Hichsec income does not need to be buffed.
next. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Nullsec industry does not need to be nerfed. Hichsec income does not need to be buffed.
next.
Obviously did not read the post.
Next. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
938
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Nullsec industry does not need to be nerfed. Hichsec income does not need to be buffed.
next. Obviously did not read the post. Next.
Tell me again how adding nullsec ores to highsec, even in limited quantities, does not constitute a nerf to nullsec mining? |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 15:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Xuixien wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Nullsec industry does not need to be nerfed. Hichsec income does not need to be buffed.
next. Obviously did not read the post. Next. Tell me again how adding nullsec ores to highsec, even in limited quantities, does not constitute a nerf to nullsec mining?
The answer is in the post. YOOZ UR BRANE Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2013.01.10 16:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Xuixien wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Nullsec industry does not need to be nerfed. Hichsec income does not need to be buffed.
next. Obviously did not read the post. Next. Tell me again how adding nullsec ores to highsec, even in limited quantities, does not constitute a nerf to nullsec mining? The answer is in the post. YOOZ UR BRANE
I'm honestly not seeing it either, care to explain? |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 16:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Xuixien wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Xuixien wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Nullsec industry does not need to be nerfed. Hichsec income does not need to be buffed.
next. Obviously did not read the post. Next. Tell me again how adding nullsec ores to highsec, even in limited quantities, does not constitute a nerf to nullsec mining? The answer is in the post. YOOZ UR BRANE I'm honestly not seeing it either, care to explain?
Okay how does supply and demand work?
Also, adding unnamed medium to high ores to gravimetric belts (non-static, non-predictable) would not be a major "buff" to HiSec. Removing the named ores from HiSec would actually represent a nerf.
NullSec mining would still be king over the others. Add a few buffs to NullSec industry and it would be even more attractive.
LowSec Industry would start to become viable. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Eliniale
co-operative resource extraction
23
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Posted - 2013.01.10 16:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Honestly i still have something of an issue with only null getting acces to the ABC, and moonmining, and gas, etc.
Since basically both TII and TI production can be done in nullsec.
Now i'm not here to shout that ABC should all come to highsec, gods that would be horrendous. But having null be more about the TII and high (or at least empire) be more about the TI would be a good thing.
Sprinkling more high value ores into higher sec statusses would accomplish this quite easily. The odd out rock of crock in a 0.2 belt, and some ark in 0.4 grav sites wouldn't be too much fo a nerf to null (whose income is already insane as it stands), nor too big a buff to empire (who relies more on quantaty rather than quality at any rate).
So honestly i wouldn't mind a slightly more even division of rocks. |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2013.01.10 17:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:
Okay how does supply and demand work?
Also, adding unnamed medium to high ores to gravimetric belts (non-static, non-predictable) would not be a major "buff" to HiSec. Removing the named ores from HiSec would actually represent a nerf.
NullSec mining would still be king over the others. Add a few buffs to NullSec industry and it would be even more attractive.
LowSec Industry would start to become viable.
This doesn't clarify your argument, it just restates it as a fact. Nullsec industry is currently almost nonexistent with the exception of things that can only be manufactured in sov space (supercaps), your claim that "NullSec mining would still be king" even after a change which gives people less incentive to mine in nullsec does not make sense to me. |
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 17:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Xuixien wrote:
Okay how does supply and demand work?
Also, adding unnamed medium to high ores to gravimetric belts (non-static, non-predictable) would not be a major "buff" to HiSec. Removing the named ores from HiSec would actually represent a nerf.
NullSec mining would still be king over the others. Add a few buffs to NullSec industry and it would be even more attractive.
LowSec Industry would start to become viable.
This doesn't clarify your argument, it just restates it as a fact. Nullsec industry is currently almost nonexistent with the exception of things that can only be manufactured in sov space (supercaps), your claim that "NullSec mining would still be king" even after a change which gives people less incentive to mine in nullsec does not make sense to me.
I'm going to reply to this in the proper EVE-Troll Fashion:
"Please explain to me how removing named ores form HiSec and making them only available in NullSec removes incentive to mine in NullSec." Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
46
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Posted - 2013.01.10 18:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
A 10% bonus to mining yield is not nearly emoigh incentive to mine in nullsec, just so you know.
That is all. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 19:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Destoya wrote:A 10% bonus to mining yield is not nearly emoigh incentive to mine in nullsec, just so you know.
That is all.
So ABC ores in belts won't attract miners huh. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2013.01.10 19:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:
I'm going to reply to this in the proper EVE-Troll Fashion:
"Please explain to me how removing named ores form HiSec and making them only available in NullSec removes incentive to mine in NullSec."
Belt mining is already unpopular (in other words, basically nonexistent) in many parts of NullSec due to the danger. You seem to be suggesting that your idea of removing named ore from hisec while simultaneously adding more types of ore TO hisec is a net gain for nulsec, which is which I don't believe is correct.
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 19:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Xuixien wrote:
I'm going to reply to this in the proper EVE-Troll Fashion:
"Please explain to me how removing named ores form HiSec and making them only available in NullSec removes incentive to mine in NullSec."
Belt mining is already unpopular (in other words, basically nonexistent) in many parts of NullSec due to the danger. You seem to be suggesting that your idea of removing named ore from hisec while simultaneously adding more types of ore TO hisec is a net gain for nulsec, which is which I don't believe is correct.
TueFact: Belt mining in NullSec is safer than in HiSec. But if you nullbears are still too skiddish to do it even with a 10% buff, then simply add low-ends to all the gravimetric sites in NullSec and problem solved.
It's not hard, really. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
137
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Posted - 2013.01.10 19:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Empire would become independent from NullSec. ... NullSec could begin to operate independently of HiSec These two reasons -- though primarily the first one, since Null is CCP's baby -- are why this proposal will fail. And to be honest, interdependency between all regions of space is healthy for the game, so trying to make each area independent from one another is probably a bad idea.
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 19:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Xuixien wrote:Empire would become independent from NullSec. ... NullSec could begin to operate independently of HiSec These two reasons -- though primarily the first one, since Null is CCP's baby -- are why this proposal will fail. And to be honest, interdependency between all regions of space is healthy for the game, so trying to make each area independent from one another is probably a bad idea.
Yes because mining ABC's in NullSec, jumping them to HiSec to sell, then buying what you need from the HiSec market to jump back to the NullSec trade station is a sensical and efficient way of promoting inter-regional commerce. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1630
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Posted - 2013.01.10 20:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm sorry, I don't see how this is anything other than a major boost to highsec.... You essentially reduce Highsec's dependence on nullsec by giving concord-protected miners access to all minerals...
Perhaps if we changed the "bonus" to refining named ores...
Example, reduce the refining output of an unnamed ore to about 10% of it's current output... and then named is a 100 fold increase in refined minerals, and best named is a 1000 fold increase... or some such non-sense...
Even then... lets not go down this path because highsec SHOULD be dependent on nullsec! |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
222
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Posted - 2013.01.10 20:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I'm sorry, I don't see how this is anything other than a major boost to highsec.... You essentially reduce Highsec's dependence on nullsec by giving concord-protected miners access to all minerals...
Perhaps if we changed the "bonus" to refining named ores...
Example, reduce the refining output of an unnamed ore to about 10% of it's current output... and then named is a 100 fold increase in refined minerals, and best named is a 1000 fold increase... or some such non-sense...
Even then... lets not go down this path because highsec SHOULD be dependent on nullsec!
CONCORD? My 700 DPS Catalyst would like a word with you. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1630
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Posted - 2013.01.10 20:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I'm sorry, I don't see how this is anything other than a major boost to highsec.... You essentially reduce Highsec's dependence on nullsec by giving concord-protected miners access to all minerals...
Perhaps if we changed the "bonus" to refining named ores...
Example, reduce the refining output of an unnamed ore to about 10% of it's current output... and then named is a 100 fold increase in refined minerals, and best named is a 1000 fold increase... or some such non-sense...
Even then... lets not go down this path because highsec SHOULD be dependent on nullsec!
CONCORD? My 700 DPS Catalyst would like a word with you.
You need a lot more than 700 dps to gank my mining alt before concord arrives...
On a related note: I'm aware that everything in highsec is suicide gankable.... but that in itself is not justification for moving rare ores to highsec.... not unless you make everyone wardecable, and make it harder to escape wardecs...
p.s. if you ever find this character "mining", it's not there for the ore...
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
223
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Posted - 2013.01.10 20:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
All the things you're talking about can be easily addressed with remodeling the way Industry works in Hi, Low, and Null.
The first part of addressing the problem is resource distribution.
Also, get real. I doubt a few unnamed gravimetric ABCs in HiSec is going to break NullSec. And if it does, well, NullSec was broken to begin with, then.
Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
364
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Posted - 2013.01.10 21:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
What is it with mining and being bad at math and economics?
Right now, given identical ships and bonuses, you will make as much or more mining scordite and pyroxeres in highsec as you do mining bistot and crockite in nullsec. Arkonor is only found in grav sites and only in small quantities. You don;t just warp to a belt and mine ark all day.
Also, it is true that there is no suicide gankers in nullsec. But this is only semantics, as their is no suicide by Concord in nullsec. So forget that 700dps Catalyst, because you can roam nullsec all day in a 700dps Hurricane and murder all the miners you want while shrugging off what ever drones they may throw at you in their defense.
Nullsec is not the king of mining. ABC ores are not magic.
By the numbers, highsec is the king of mining, especially when you factor in Concord limiting ganking to suicide runs and the easy access to refineries and markets. |
Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
406
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Posted - 2013.01.10 21:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:[quote=Xuixien][quote=Gizznitt Malikite]
p.s. if you ever find this character "mining", it's not there for the ore...
Clever girl... |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
223
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:What is it with mining and being bad at math and economics?
Right now, given identical ships and bonuses, you will make as much or more mining scordite and pyroxeres in highsec as you do mining bistot and crockite in nullsec. Arkonor is only found in grav sites and only in small quantities. You don;t just warp to a belt and mine ark all day.
Also, it is true that there is no suicide gankers in nullsec. But this is only semantics, as their is no suicide by Concord in nullsec. So forget that 700dps Catalyst, because you can roam nullsec all day in a 700dps Hurricane and murder all the miners you want while shrugging off what ever drones they may throw at you in their defense.
Nullsec is not the king of mining. ABC ores are not magic.
By the numbers, highsec is the king of mining, especially when you factor in Concord limiting ganking to suicide runs and the easy access to refineries and markets.
So if you'll make as much, or more, mining low ends in HiSec, then mining a few ABCs to high won't matter. Kthx. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
364
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:What is it with mining and being bad at math and economics?
Right now, given identical ships and bonuses, you will make as much or more mining scordite and pyroxeres in highsec as you do mining bistot and crockite in nullsec. Arkonor is only found in grav sites and only in small quantities. You don;t just warp to a belt and mine ark all day.
Also, it is true that there is no suicide gankers in nullsec. But this is only semantics, as their is no suicide by Concord in nullsec. So forget that 700dps Catalyst, because you can roam nullsec all day in a 700dps Hurricane and murder all the miners you want while shrugging off what ever drones they may throw at you in their defense.
Nullsec is not the king of mining. ABC ores are not magic.
By the numbers, highsec is the king of mining, especially when you factor in Concord limiting ganking to suicide runs and the easy access to refineries and markets. So if you'll make as much, or more, mining low ends in HiSec, then mining a few ABCs to high won't matter. Kthx.
No, it won't matter all that much. But it makes me wonder why you would want to make less isk mining the so called "high ends", wasting time probing down grav sites, when you could just park yourself in a highsec belt and make more and easier isk. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
223
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Xuixien wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:What is it with mining and being bad at math and economics?
Right now, given identical ships and bonuses, you will make as much or more mining scordite and pyroxeres in highsec as you do mining bistot and crockite in nullsec. Arkonor is only found in grav sites and only in small quantities. You don;t just warp to a belt and mine ark all day.
Also, it is true that there is no suicide gankers in nullsec. But this is only semantics, as their is no suicide by Concord in nullsec. So forget that 700dps Catalyst, because you can roam nullsec all day in a 700dps Hurricane and murder all the miners you want while shrugging off what ever drones they may throw at you in their defense.
Nullsec is not the king of mining. ABC ores are not magic.
By the numbers, highsec is the king of mining, especially when you factor in Concord limiting ganking to suicide runs and the easy access to refineries and markets. So if you'll make as much, or more, mining low ends in HiSec, then mining a few ABCs to high won't matter. Kthx. No, it won't matter all that much. But it makes me wonder why you would want to make less isk mining the so called "high ends", wasting time probing down grav sites, when you could just park yourself in a highsec belt and make more and easier isk.
Because it's a sandbox, and some people don't want to live in NullSec?
Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
What you seem to be missing, Xuixien, is that the changes you have proposed (if considered alone, which I see no reason for them not to be) would exacerbate problems instead of fixing them. Vague suggestions of fixing nullsec industry are all well and good, but this wouldn't accomplish that.
That said, the core concept of your idea is interesting. If combined, for example, with some kind of change to limit the ease with which mass quantities of minerals can be moved between nullsec and hisec, it could help to shift more mining and manufacturing into nullsec while still allowing hisec industry to function. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
297
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:So if you'll make as much, or more, mining low ends in HiSec, then mining a few ABCs to high won't matter. Kthx.
Except to the extent that it further depresses the prices of the only ores that anyone ever seriously mined in nullsec.
I'd rather have CCP introduce two weaker kinds of ore to balance the two stronger kinds--Veined Omber, Porous Veldspar, that kind of thing--and roll that out to the high sec belts in theme with the idea that resources in high sec are depleted relative to other, less populated areas. The richer ores would then become more common as system security dropped. The highsec-mining-as-playstyle subscribers still get plenty of rocks to mine, and maybe the price of "low-end" minerals becomes robust enough to make them attractive to lowsec and nullsec miners. Someone might finally start chewing on Veldzilla. (Though the balance of low-ends in low- and null- sec grav sites needs to be adjusted upward to match the proportions used in manufacturing, because nobody mines the belts there.)
While I'm blue-skying, the Procurer and Skiff need to be redefined as the next step up from the Venture, as relatively quick and slippery ninja miners instead of brick-tanked bait ships. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1632
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: But it makes me wonder why you would want to make less isk mining the so called "high ends", wasting time probing down grav sites, when you could just park yourself in a highsec belt and make more and easier isk.
Because "other" miners often join you in a belt and mine the roids there... It pisses me off and I want to live in a region where I can blow up their vessel if they touch the ore's I lay claim to!!!!
Also, it bothers me that a person can make as much or more isk mining in highsec, where concord will punish anyone that shoots them.
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Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
364
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Posted - 2013.01.10 22:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Xuixien wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:What is it with mining and being bad at math and economics?
Right now, given identical ships and bonuses, you will make as much or more mining scordite and pyroxeres in highsec as you do mining bistot and crockite in nullsec. Arkonor is only found in grav sites and only in small quantities. You don;t just warp to a belt and mine ark all day.
Also, it is true that there is no suicide gankers in nullsec. But this is only semantics, as their is no suicide by Concord in nullsec. So forget that 700dps Catalyst, because you can roam nullsec all day in a 700dps Hurricane and murder all the miners you want while shrugging off what ever drones they may throw at you in their defense.
Nullsec is not the king of mining. ABC ores are not magic.
By the numbers, highsec is the king of mining, especially when you factor in Concord limiting ganking to suicide runs and the easy access to refineries and markets. So if you'll make as much, or more, mining low ends in HiSec, then mining a few ABCs to high won't matter. Kthx. No, it won't matter all that much. But it makes me wonder why you would want to make less isk mining the so called "high ends", wasting time probing down grav sites, when you could just park yourself in a highsec belt and make more and easier isk. Because it's a sandbox, and some people don't want to live in NullSec?
Then don't live in nullsec. Fly in, cherry pick some "highends" and fly out. Then get laughed at by your highsec buddies who stayed in highsec and made way more isk than you mining ores that are actually vauable and in high demand.
You could probably get them from a wormhole, which would save you a bit of time, and be a bit safer. |
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