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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3911

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Posted - 2013.01.10 11:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
It may be worth remembering just how big and powerful the shells are that we use in EVE when compared to standard ground based weaponry. Gallente destroyers with rails will usually fire 125mm shells, slightly smaller than the 130mm shells fired by modern naval destroyers.
We know how much damage that kind of real life shell can cause, now imagine those shells being filled with anti-matter! And now imagine a shell half a metre across made of the same stuff travelling a good percentage the speed of light, the kind fired from a 425mm battleship railgun. The kinetic damage alone would vaporise a large portion of the area. Add in the anti--matter and you wouldn't just kill a few DUST soldiers, you would vaporise a few square kilometres. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3914

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Posted - 2013.01.10 11:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Abu Tarynnia wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:It may be worth remembering just how big and powerful the shells are that we use in EVE when compared to standard ground based weaponry. Gallente destroyers with rails will usually fire 125mm shells, slightly smaller than the 130mm shells fired by modern naval destroyers.
We know how much damage that kind of real life shell can cause, now imagine those shells being filled with anti-matter! And now imagine a shell half a metre across made of the same stuff travelling a good percentage the speed of light, the kind fired from a 425mm battleship railgun. The kinetic damage alone would vaporise a large portion of the area. Add in the anti--matter and you wouldn't just kill a few DUST soldiers, you would vaporise a few square kilometres. The shell yould just vaporise in the atmosphere (maybe with a big bang) but nothing more. The sheer amount of energy the shell would have to travel with a 'good percentage the speed of light' would tear the fabric of given shell apart ... as for antimatter ... the shell it self would implede the moment the antimatter is inserted ! 
You may want to read up on EVE's lore. The 425mm shells fired by Gallente Hybrid weapons do contain anti-matter (most likely suspended as it is in real life in a magnetic bottle) and are fired at a considerable percentage of the speed of light. It may also be worth noting that the ammunition available to use for orbital strikes is not the same as standard ammunition, it has been created specifically for this task. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3914

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Posted - 2013.01.10 11:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:It may be worth remembering just how big and powerful the shells are that we use in EVE when compared to standard ground based weaponry. Gallente destroyers with rails will usually fire 125mm shells, slightly smaller than the 130mm shells fired by modern naval destroyers.
We know how much damage that kind of real life shell can cause, now imagine those shells being filled with anti-matter! And now imagine a shell half a metre across made of the same stuff travelling a good percentage the speed of light, the kind fired from a 425mm battleship railgun. The kinetic damage alone would vaporise a large portion of the area. Add in the anti--matter and you wouldn't just kill a few DUST soldiers, you would vaporise a few square kilometres. If eve followed real physics those shells would go for 1000km (well actually much much much much much further) in space but they don't. I wast saying real 125mm shells couldnt do it, i'm saying the ones in eve shouldnt be able to. Because in eve space the same size shells go to around 20-30km, unless they are shooting something on the ground, then magically they have a 1000km optimal.. Wheres my atron with a 1000km optimal please? I get the size difference of spaceships compared to men. It still makes no sense when placed into EvE. I'm not saying the games to hard or easy or that i want it harder or easier. I'm saying that having such a massive performance boost on a small gun just because its facing down is a MASSIVE imersion breaker that doesn't "fit" with the rest of the game at all.
The size of the shell has nothing to do with the distance it travels. My post was in reference to someone asking why, at least at first, only destroyers will be used and why only small ammunition is available. As for the mechanics of why a shell fired at a planet will travel further than in space, no-one here has an answer for that, though at the end of the Dev Blog it does say that a further blog will be forthcoming soon that details the mechanics of orbital strikes. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3914

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Posted - 2013.01.10 11:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Abu Tarynnia wrote:As far as orbital bombartment goes .. anyone remember 'Babylon 5' ? I think it was third or forth season .. they flung asteroids on planets ... maybe this would be some new reason to fit tractor beams on capitals ? :) .. And for planetary defense to have enough miners at hand to remove belts before the enemy arives 
There is another game in development at the moment, funded by a Kickstarter program, that uses this exact method of bombarding the enemy. You can literally slingshot asteroids at your opponents planets. Sadly the name of said game eludes me... ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3915

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Posted - 2013.01.10 11:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:I can't see any reason to risk 200-2000 millions worth battleship for a planet which can bring 50mil/month of "income" - or for ridiculous 12x12 surface battle with 5mil payout (5mil = my guess about Dust payouts). About size. EVE destroyers are comparable to modern naval carriers and WW2 battleships. I.e. they are huge. P.S. Asteroids bombardment = " mass driving" is too destructive.
As per your example there, a Catalyst is 88 metres from front to back (bow to stern if you wish) and 284 metres wide (or port to starboard), in comparison a Nimitz Class Nuclear powered Carrier is 333 metres in length. So in theory you could park a Catalyst on the deck of a Nimitz Class and have just about enough room to park a Gallente shuttle on the deck as well, leaving you with roughly enough room to swing a few cats.
DISCLAIMER: CCP does not condone the swinging of any animals for any purpose, scientific or otherwise. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3919

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Posted - 2013.01.10 12:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Abu Tarynnia wrote:Ahm .. YOU brought the RL-Destroyers shell into discussion .. and in RL anything filled up with antimatter would just implde AND a shell (short of 1KM diameter) will just vaporice because of the air around us .. otherwise you wouldn't be able to go around on the surface due to tiny asteroids and space-trash hitting earth all time. And yes story ... and I still don't understand why my stealth-BOMBER cannot use its BOMBS for orbital BOMBartment ... though I have the skill BOMB deployment .. but that might be something completely different 
As in real life, so in EVE, at least in the case of antimatter. Remember, EVE is set thousands of years in the future so advancements in physics, materials science and all related matters would be expected. As it stands today we can and do already magnetically confine antimatter safely, we also have the ability to accelerate objects to very high velocities and in the case of particles, to around 99.99999% the speed of light. Given tens of millennia of scientific progress, the weapons seen in EVE are not as far fetched as they may seem. 
Source for antimatter storage: Antimatter Storage
ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3920

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Posted - 2013.01.10 12:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:It may be worth remembering just how big and powerful the shells are that we use in EVE when compared to standard ground based weaponry. Gallente destroyers with rails will usually fire 125mm shells, slightly smaller than the 130mm shells fired by modern naval destroyers.
We know how much damage that kind of real life shell can cause, now imagine those shells being filled with anti-matter! And now imagine a shell half a metre across made of the same stuff travelling a good percentage the speed of light, the kind fired from a 425mm battleship railgun. The kinetic damage alone would vaporise a large portion of the area. Add in the anti--matter and you wouldn't just kill a few DUST soldiers, you would vaporise a few square kilometres. assuming the payload of the destroyer shell is a cylinder with 115mm diameter and 600mm height, its volume would be pi*600mm*(100mm/2)^2 = ~4,712,389mm^3 It would reasonable to use some relatively heavy antimatter as ammunition, for the sake of the argument lead ions will do. Lead has a density of 11,340 kg/m^3 or 1.1340 *10^-5 kg/mm^3, therefore our (anti-)lead cylinder would have a mass of ~53.44kg. Using E = m*c^2 one antimatter shell would be converted into ~4.8*10^18 joules, the equivalent of 1,148 megatons of TNT. The most powerful nuclear weapon detonated on earth so far had a yield of 57 megatons. One single destroyer shell - the equivalent of 20 extremely powerful hydrogen bombs. Those DUST mercs better watch out.
That is some impressive math there It may be worth noting that no numbers are provided in EVE for the ratio of Antimatter to Matter in the construction of a shell. It may help to think of the shell itself as more of a delivery system, than half the bomb itself. In all likelihood, and going by modern scientific convention, a standard antimatter round would likely contain in the region of 10000's of a gram, providing a much smaller "Boom!"
Here is an excerpt from a Q & A session with a member of staff at the LHC at CERN:
CERN wrote: Does one gram of antimatter contain the energy of a 20 kilotonne nuclear bomb?
Twenty kilotonnes of TNT is the equivalent of the atom bomb that destroyed Hiroshima. The explosion of a kilotonne (=1000 tonnes) of TNT corresponds to a energy release of 4.2x1012 joules (1012 is a 1 followed by 12 zeros, i.e. a million million). For comparison, a 60 watt light bulb consumes 60 J per second.
You are probably asking for the explosive release of energy by the sudden annihilation of one gram of antimatter with one gram of matter. Let's calculate it.
To calculate the energy released in the annihilation of 1 g of antimatter with 1 g of matter (which makes 2 g = 0.002 kg), we have to use the formula E=mc2, where c is the speed of light (300,000,000 m/s):
E= 0.002 x (300,000,000)2 kg m2/s2 = 1.8 x 1014 J = 180 x 1012 J. Since 4.2x1012 J corresponds to a kilotonne of TNT, then 2 g of matter-antimatter annihilation correspond to 180/4.2 = 42.8 kilotonnes, about double the 20 kt of TNT.
This means that you GÇÿonlyGÇÖ need half a gram of antimatter to be equally destructive as the Hiroshima bomb, since the other half gram of (normal) matter is easy enough to find.
At CERN we make quantities of the order of 107 antiprotons per second and there are 6x1023 of them in a single gram of antihydrogen. You can easily calculate how long it would take to get one gram: we would need 6x1023/107=6x1016 seconds. There are only 365 (days) x 24 (h) x 60 (min) x 60 (sec) = around 3x107 seconds in a year, so it would take roughly 6x1016 / 3x107 = 2x109 = two billion years! It is quite unlikely that anyone wants to wait that long.
Source: CERN spotlight. Enjoy! ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3920

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Posted - 2013.01.10 12:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:Given tens of millennia of scientific progress, the weapons seen in EVE are not as far fetched as they may seem.  how does scientific progress prevent the entire battlefield from being vaporated when treated to the equivalent of 1 gigaton TNT?
Answers are above  ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3920

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Posted - 2013.01.10 12:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Keno Skir wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:You may want to read up on EVE's lore. The 425mm shells fired by Gallente Hybrid weapons do contain anti-matter (most likely suspended as it is in real life in a magnetic bottle) and are fired at a considerable percentage of the speed of light. Then why according to EvE lore do they magically cease to be at 30 or 40km? As i have repeatedly said, i'm aware EvE doesn't (and shouldn't) simulate real physics. But the scenario in question doesn't even fit with EvE's version of physics and that's where i feel there is a break in imersion happening. Also the gameplay element but i'm happy to wait n see how that unfolds. I suspect the magnetic bottle runs out of energy to susain it's containment field, in which case the shell would just evaporate. I'd do it the same way, it's a nice safety mechanism to prevent stray shots hitting anything You dont want to hit, outside of a certain range ofc.
Now that seems like a perfectly acceptable reason to me. For other shells, perhaps a simple explosive charge to facilitate the same dignified and safe "end" to a shells existence should it fail to strike its target. Poor shells They either explode on impact, or they just explode Not much of a life really. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3922

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Posted - 2013.01.10 14:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:An object in motion remains in motion unless acted on by an outside force.
optimal range + falloff in EVE isn't a measure of how long your round last before disintegrating (except with blasters) it's a measure of how far out the ship can reliably hit stuff with that kind of gun before things get so extreme that any hit you did score would constitute divine intervention.
Fire a hybrid round, and it will fly off into space to ruin somebody's day, somewhere, sometime. If you got things right, the person whose day it ruins is your intended target's.
This would only hold completely true if EVE were based on standard space physics. The problem there is, it isn't. EVE space is based on fluid dynamics (to a degree at least), hence our ships coming to rest when the engines are shut off, and why we do not continue to accelerate if we leave our engines switched on. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1471

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Posted - 2013.01.10 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yes, destroyers for orbital bombardment. Why do you ask? Because we want to be able to build up to bigger and better. If we started with Titans doing orbital bombardment and then added the others going down each time we added something it would be smaller.
This way we start with destroyers with small guns and next time we add bigger guns we can make it bigger and better.
Keep in mind our goal is to start with a small connection between the two games and build it up from that so we don't break anything, or break as little as possible.
Hope that helps answer why we went with destroyers first. :) Game Designer | Team True Grit |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1476

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Posted - 2013.01.10 18:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cozmik R5 wrote:Make the thing work good first, then go bigger. Not that hard to figure out. That said it would be awesome to fire 8 bus-sized projectiles into a planet 
Understand I think you do.    Game Designer | Team True Grit |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
1499

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Posted - 2013.01.11 10:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Beckie DeLey wrote:People certainly take their space physics very seriously...
I had, and then passed off because I am no rocket scientist, a defect from a player submitted bug report about how the energy we listed in the description didn't match how it would really work. Something about us rounding at the 10 decimal place instead of the 20th. Game Designer | Team True Grit |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3930

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Posted - 2013.01.11 14:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
As this thread appears to be heading towards personal attacks and other unwanted behaviour, I want to make it clear that such things are not welcome on the EVE forums. Now with that out of the way there seem to be a number of things people are missing the point on.
First of all, this current connection is a test, only the first iteration of however many it takes to ensure things run smoothly. This has has been stated numerous times by numerous Devs. Start small and see how things pan out and then work up to bigger and better things once everything is stable and understood.
Secondly, the ammunition used for Orbital Bombardments is not the same as standard ammo. How it differs exactly has not been detailed, but there is a nice description on the FAQ:
EVE-DUST514 FAQ wrote:
This iteration of Orbital Bombardment is focused on the Tactical Strike variant which is performed with specialized ammo for small turret based weapons. Each turret category has a specialized ammo type: - Hybrids: Tactical Hybrid S - Lasers: Tactical Laser S - Projectiles: Tactical EMP S
The hybrid strike delivers a nice spread of high-damage rounds that are effective against infantry and vehicles. Laser strikes have a more focused area and are good for taking out installations or heavy vehicles. The EMP strike does a massive amount of damage to shields in a large area, but it will not damage armor, so it's good against heavily shield tanked targets.
The FAQ can be found here, for those of you who have not seen it already.
tl;dr The EVE-DUST connection is still only in its testing phases. Passing final judgement on something that is not yet complete would be foolhardy.
So lets just go out, have fun, and nuke them all from orbit.
Just to be safe.  ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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